"Smurfing through time" A Dragon Ball Super upgrade

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

this! I was reading the low 1-C sailor moon threads and so much of the information in the OP just seemed unindexable by contemporary standards. It's kinda funny though that a verse as popular as DB (perhaps the most popular VS debate verse) can sometimes pull feats so obscure and weird they cant reliably be indexed

unironically, DB is one of the most prominent culprits of this

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Gonna have to disagree with option 2 and just go for option 1. Reason being is that there is no reason that the neutral zone can't just share the time axis of the all encompassing hypertimeline instead. We would need further proof of the neutral zone actually having its own distinct time axis, unlike the macrocosms which have separate origins of times, and spaces that lack the concept of space and time separating them so that they must be encompassed by separate, distinct time axes. I feel it would be much safer to just say hit is just manipulating the hypertimeline instead. Because as we already know, just as how multiple spacetimes can share 1 time axis, there is no exception for the neutral zone, unless again, we have further proof which I personally feel that we lack.

No I've had this discussion before on multiple threads. The neutral zone being a separate dimension and having a separate time axis are two totally different concepts. It can still actually share the time axis of the overarching hypertimeline without anything limiting it. Separate dimension=/=separate time axis. Ill try to give an example: A timeline of two universes would be modeled as, Rx{1, 2} x RxRxR or A multiverse from 2 timelines would be, {1,2)x(RxRxR)xR. They would both be the same thing, now apply that to the neutral zone, and maybe zeno's palace to simulate the two universes/timelines, and they would still share the greater timelines time axis. We need more proof of a distinct time axis for the neutral zone.

I generally agree with TiltedFN's take on this. So I'd be fine with option 1.

 

[Killerdrone123]

I generally agree with TiltedFN's take on this. So I'd be fine with option 1.

Thank you for your vote

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I generally agree with TiltedFN's take on this. So I'd be fine with option 1.

little brother, could you mark the @DarkDragonMedeus to give your opinion on the subject again.

 

[Golden_Void]

I see two options but what is actually being suggested?

 

[Killerdrone123]

I see two options but what is actually being suggested?

Option 1:hit having 5d timeskip for manipulating hypertimeline

Option 2:neutral zone having it's own temporal dimension

 

[ChoursDropoff]

I think option 1 is the safest bet second on isn’t impossible but it’s a bit out there.

 

[Kroneii1]

I agree with option 1.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

truuuuuu

Let's not pretend that's not what we all want

Jokes aside, option 2 is surely the best option. This is evidence that there is a temporal axis in neutral space, it's non-sense to assume Hit manipulated the dimension to create a temporal axis, that's in no way related to his ability. He can create pocket realities, not add a whole new axis.
But wait a second. WE ALREADY KNOW THAT!!!

To everyone saying this means 6D Zen'oh, it doesn't. The neutral space itself was not considered 5D because it's a space that encompass 4D Time, it was because we assumed neutral space had a hypertimeline that governed over lesser timelines. The temporal axis was already the very thing assumed to be 5D in this whole ordeal.

Meaning option 1 and option 2 are actually the same thing.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

To everyone saying this means 6D Zen'oh, it doesn't. The neutral space itself was not considered 5D because it's a space that encompass 4D Time, it was because we assumed neutral space had a hypertimeline that governed over lesser timelines. The temporal axis was already the very thing assumed to be 5D in this whole ordeal.

The neutral space was considered insignificant 5D before any CRT was made, a space separating two universes is automatically assumed to be insignificant 5D, so it had always been insignificant 5D it was never accepted as full-blown 5D. The problem here is that if you give such a space a temporal dimension of its own, we arrive at a really weird structure.

What does it mean for the neutral zone then? Does it now have a 5D temporal dimension since its already insignificant 5D or is it just a regular 4D time axis? Is it even possible for a 4D temporal dimension to service an insignificant 5D space? We actually can't know unless some tier 1 expert clarifies this. If its the former then 6D Zeno is the only conclusion from this, if its the latter then we need some clarification

 

[Killerdrone123]

Let's not pretend that's not what we all want

Jokes aside, option 2 is surely the best option. This is evidence that there is a temporal axis in neutral space, it's non-sense to assume Hit manipulated the dimension to create a temporal axis, that's in no way related to his ability. He can create pocket realities, not add a whole new axis.
But wait a second. WE ALREADY KNOW THAT!!!

To everyone saying this means 6D Zen'oh, it doesn't. The neutral space itself was not considered 5D because it's a space that encompass 4D Time, it was because we assumed neutral space had a hypertimeline that governed over lesser timelines. The temporal axis was already the very thing assumed to be 5D in this whole ordeal.

Meaning option 1 and option 2 are actually the same thing.

You are right that the temporal dimension for the neutral zone is timeline but I think you are misunderstanding option 2 it basically says that if you don't wanna believe that hit manipulaTed the hypertimeline than there needs to be a temporal dimension which hits needs to manipulate for his ability to work meaning neutral zone needs to have a temporal dimension separate from the timeline and to prove this fact I provided the scan how neutral space being called a separate space could mean that it a completely separate dimension of space time from the timeline

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

The neutral space was considered insignificant 5D before any CRT was made, a space separating two universes is automatically assumed to be insignificant 5D, so it had always been insignificant 5D it was never accepted as full-blown 5D. The problem here is that if you give such a space a temporal dimension of its own, we arrive at a really weird structure.

What does it mean for the neutral zone then? Does it now have a 5D temporal dimension since its already insignificant 5D or is it just a regular 4D time axis? Is it even possible for a 4D temporal dimension to service an insignificant 5D space? We actually can't know unless some tier 1 expert clarifies this. If its the former then 6D Zeno is the only conclusion from this, if its the latter then we need some clarification

It's an insignificant 5D space with very significant 5D time that serves all the universes AND the neutral spaces.

You are right that the temporal dimension for the neutral zone is timeline but I think you are misunderstanding option 2 it basically says that if you don't wanna believe that hit manipulaTed the hypertimeline than there needs to be a temporal dimension which hits needs to manipulate for his ability to work meaning neutral zone needs to have a temporal dimension separate from the timeline and to prove this fact I provided the scan how neutral space being called a separate space could mean that it a completely separate dimension of space time from the timeline

Ah I see, so just another temporal dimension that serves no purpose for the grander multiverse? Because the hypertimeline can already serve the neutral space like a regular temporal axis, so why would it have two of them?

 

[Killerdrone123]

Ah I see, so just another temporal dimension that serves no purpose for the grander multiverse? Because the hypertimeline can already serve the neutral space like a regular temporal axis, so why would it have two of them?

Like I said I have tried to argue how neutral space can be it's own space time or dimension and timeline would just be the temporal dimension for all of the multiverse so I think I should put you for option 1 right

 

[Ryzen7900X]

It's an insignificant 5D space with very significant 5D time that serves all the universes AND the neutral spaces.

so doesn't that make the neutral zone itself significant 5D now as well as the timeline 6D, considering it would now service a significant 5D structure "below" it as well? (for the same reason it is 5D for servicing significant 4D structures "below" it)?


EDIT: unless this new temporal dimension is the same as the 5D temporal axis of the timeline in which case it makes 0 difference ig

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

so doesn't that make the neutral zone itself significant 5D now as well as the timeline 6D, considering it would now service a significant 5D structure "below" it as well? (for the same reason it is 5D for servicing significant 4D structures "below" it)?


EDIT: unless this new temporal dimension is the same as the 5D temporal axis of the timeline in which case it makes 0 difference ig

Nope. Just like a larger 4D timeline can serve and encompass smaller 4D timelines, a true 5D hypertimeline can encompass an insignificantly and infinitely small 5D space

 

[Ryzen7900X]

Nope. Just like a larger 4D timeline can serve and encompass smaller 4D timelines, a true 5D hypertimeline can encompass an insignificantly and infinitely small 5D space

in that case, you're right. Option 1 and 2 seem to be same then

 

[Hasty12345]

Let's not pretend that's not what we all want

At some point all these antifeats will add up and we will vanquish this cringe hyper timeline fan fiction of the website

 

[Ryzen7900X]

At some point all these antifeats will add up and we will vanquish this cringe hyper timeline fan fiction of the website

doubt it tbh. 3-A Zeno would be pretty much a death sentence to DB power scaling. it'll be 1000X worst than 1-C DC Comics

 

[Hasty12345]

doubt it tbh. 3-A Zeno would be pretty much a death sentence to DB power scaling. it'll be 1000X worst than 1-C DC Comics

I want death to hyper timelines in general, and we would undoubtedly go back to how we used to treat such structures

 

[Ryzen7900X]

I want death to hyper timelines in general, and we would undoubtedly go back to how we used to treat such structures

that ain't happening either. Its a legit thing that exists

 

[Hasty12345]

that ain't happening either. Its a legit thing that exists

It’s as legit as the rest of common power scaling beliefs.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

It’s as legit as the rest of common power scaling beliefs.

i mean, do you want a purely physicalist tiering system that just keeps adding "mOAr uNiVeRSes!!!!" at the high end and pretends to invent a new tier?

 

[TiltedFN]

Lets just try not to clog this thread and wait for more staff

 

[Hasty12345]

i mean, do you want a purely physicalist tiering system that just keeps adding "mOAr uNiVeRSes!!!!" at the high end and pretends to invent a new tier?

That logic is literally the backbone of hyper timelines.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

That logic is literally the backbone of hyper timelines.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

You two are portraying the battle of mid right now as neither of you understand the concepts of Hypertimeline very well and are discussing it in a very inappropriate time and place over a little joke.

Chill. Let's wait for staff. Again, option 2 is trying to claim there is a second layer of 4D time on neutral space, which is meaningless, but avoids the assumption that Hit has 5D Time Manipulation which would mean characters that surpass his abilities shouldn't be affected by the hypertimeline. which is not true. I'll take that over whatever option 1 is.

 

[Hasty12345]

You two are portraying the battle of mid right now as neither of you understand the concepts of Hypertimeline very well and are discussing it in a very inappropriate time and place over a little joke.

Chill. Let's wait for staff. Again, option 2 is trying to claim there is a second layer of 4D time on neutral space, which is meaningless, but avoids the assumption that Hit has 5D Time Manipulation which would mean characters that surpass his abilities shouldn't be affected by the hypertimeline. which is not true. I'll take that over whatever option 1 is.

Nice attempt at an insult

 

[Ryzen7900X]

Nice attempt at an insult

that's an utter insult to the word insult itself.

 

[Hasty12345]

that's an utter insult to the word insult itself.

Calling us mid is like saying the Mona Lisa is ugly smh

 

[Ryzen7900X]

Calling us mid is like saying the Mona Lisa is ugly smh

plus we're not really misunderstanding hypertimelines, just calling out the blatant holes in its logic

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Nice attempt at an insult

The fact you thought that was an attempt at an insult is insultingly insulting. What's mid are your arguments about the thing you objectively don't understand, not attacking y'all's character.

plus we're not really misunderstanding hypertimelines, just calling out the blatant holes in its logic

Cites blatantly incorrect facts about hypertimelines.

Yeah nah, just stop it already. Boondoggle in your DMs, this is not the place for it.

 

[TiltedFN]

The fact you thought that was an attempt at an insult is insultingly insulting. What's mid are your arguments about the thing you objectively don't understand, not attacking y'all's character.




Yeah nah, just stop it already. Boondoggle in your DMs, this is not the place for it.

Can you just like stop, please.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

The fact you thought that was an attempt at an insult is insultingly insulting. What's mid are your arguments about the thing you objectively don't understand, not attacking y'all's character.

pretty sure he was messing around.

Yeah nah, just stop it already. Boondoggle in your DMs, this is not the place for it.

the point I raised was literally a hole in the hypertimeline logic lmao. The fact that it needs a “significant size”, lower dimensional spatial realm even though time is already assumed to be infinite is an issue most people here are aware of and have talked about.

Also drop this condescending mini-modding that you’re tryna pull. You know well enough you of all people have no moral high ground to finger wag anyone here

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

the point I raised was--

Irrelevant to this thread.

this condescending mini-modding that you’re tryna pull

Ain't no mini modding, this argument is just being annoying and clogging a thread I have interest in reading. I will ask for a mod to handle this if you don't stop though.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Can you just like stop, please.

Don't interact with me.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Don't interact with me.

Please no derailment in the crt and no nasty comments.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

Irrelevant to this thread.

lol no, it was tangentially related at least.

Ain't no mini modding, this argument is just being annoying and clogging a thread I have—

no one gives a crap what you want. Holy mother of arrogance get your head out of your rear . And annoying to who exactly? The OP? He didn’t say anything yet. To you? Oh um….IDGAF

call whoever you want

 

[TiltedFN]

Don't interact with me.

I'm simply telling you there is no need for the passive aggressive comments is all. There was no need for your comments against hasty and ryzen.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

lol no, it was tangentially related at least.

Not... really? You wanted to get rid of hypertimelines which this thread cites, but doesn't tackle it at all.

no one gives a crap what you want. Holy mother of arrogance get your head out of your rear . And annoying to who exactly? The OP? He didn’t say anything yet. To you? Oh um….IDGAF

Aight bro, I was just trying to express my opinion on the matter, but there is no need to be this aggressive. It's a fact you can't just clog a thread by protesting about something that the thread isn't even addressing, it harms the thread. Please just cease replying to me, and chill.

I'm simply telling you there is no need for the passive aggressive comments is all.

I genuinely wasn't trying to be, the mid thing was a joke and I thought Hasty was offended, which I tried to clarify. Don't need to assume the worst just because you don't like me.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

Not... really? You wanted to get rid of hypertimelines which this thread cites, but doesn't tackle it at all.

You misread. I literally said we can’t have it removed cuz we’d have 3-A Zeno otherwise which I don’t want. I don’t wanna get rid of it, just didn’t understand why neutral zone isn’t 5D even after this change (which is the actual hole in its logic)