Just doesn't make sense that him on a ship randomly got over 4x stronger.
Ok this makes sense as well
Yeah I agree with this, from what we've seen with Luffy his usage of Hao coating doesn't seem to vary much in strength regardless of if he's in base or snake-man.
I also agree with this, which is one of the reasons I mentioned Oden matching Kaido with only one of his swords. Also thinking about it base Oden was able to fight Dragon Kaido so him being comparable to base Kaido doesn't make as much sense.
Gotcha
Dragon Kaido burned and knocked back base Oden, so here's how it'd be
Big Mom used 1 hand in her sword swing. The other one was in her midsection for some reason but it wasn't holding Napoleon.
Fair enough
Fair enough, my main point I was trying to make there though is that Big Mom is a two handed one sword type fighter.
Maybe it'd (1 hand Linlin) be unquantifiably above half?
The thing is though isn't it one handed Big Mom the one who's getting the 12 TT rating since she's the one who clashed with Kaido son it wouldn't be halved in the first place?
That's true, so they'd scale to 6 then, but that's a discussion for that thread
Ace?
That doesn't make much sense to me, Oden speedblitzed and permanently scarred Dragon Kaido.
Kaido was looking at Oden on the ground and in the next panel, Oden already cut him with Togen Totsuka, while in the air. That's a speedblitz.
Was that stated anywhere?
Wano is a closed country. It makes no sense for Hina to know more about Kaido's strength, than Kaido himself. His statement>Hina's statement. If he thinks that those 5 are the ones who are capable of matching him equally, then whatever some random marine officer says, shouldn't be taken seriously. With the whole "everyone without their captain, they're still growing", it has to be taken into account that Kaido was 21 back when he was a member of Rocks, and 39 when he fought Oden. During those 18 years, yes, he and Big Mom were growing in power, but after Kaido went to Wano, a closed country where no information gets out, it would make NO sense for Hina to know how strong Kaido right now is or if he's stronger than when he fought Oden. Didn't Sengoku literally warn Akainu about Wano because of their lack of information? They must've fought that it's a country full of Samurais who are on Oden's level.
The point is that he became bored of the World after Oden's death and was on his way to Marineford 18 years after that, to fight Whitebeard. We don't exactly know why he didn't put Big Mom in his Top 5 as well (likely because they're currently in an alliance), but I'm pretty sure Kaido never fought Garp and Sengoku. As for Shiki, nobody knows wtf he's up to nor would Kaido have an idea how strong Shiki is, if he's still alive. As for the admirals, why would he put them in his Top 5?
For big mom base kaido is shown to be a match for her other then shortening her lifespan. So Hybrid would beat her overall.
?????Kaido was looking at Oden on the ground and in the next panel, Oden already cut him with Togen Totsuka, while in the air. That's a speedblitz.
SBS 100 said the move he used has Haoshoku usage
It means that even though he's stronger than back then, he can still be harmed by these people.
He did not put anybody in his top 5. That is not a top 5. That is a list of people that can hurt him.
"So hybrid would beat her overall" baseless statement
guess what Hybrid is stronger then base it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out
Guess what 3 homies is stronger than 1 it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out
Ok?
His reaction speed is still the same. If he couldn't react to Togen's Totsuka, then it's a speedblitz.
Not really. It would only mean that Togen Totsuka is that strong and fast of an attack.
And Oden reacted by speedblitzing him with his strongest attack.
That's your headcanon. If Kaido himself thinks that those 5 are the ones who are capable of fighting him, then it's like that. That's not a list of people who can only hurt him, that's a list of people who are equals to him. Otherwise any random character who's leagues under those characters, but still manages to hurt/injure Kaido, would get into that list too.
I was editing my comment while you answered. Wano is a closed country. It makes no sense for Hina to know more about Kaido's strength, than Kaido himself. His statement>Hina's statement. If he thinks that those 5 are the ones who are capable of matching him equally, then whatever some random marine officer says, shouldn't be taken seriously. With the whole "everyone without their captain, they're still growing", it has to be taken into account that Kaido was 21 back when he was a member of Rocks, and 39 when he fought Oden. During those 18 years, yes, he and Big Mom were growing in power, but after Kaido went to Wano, a closed country where no information gets out, it would make NO sense for Hina to know how strong Kaido right now is or if he's stronger than when he fought Oden. Didn't Sengoku literally warn Akainu about Wano because of their lack of information? They must've fought that it's a country full of Samurais who are on Oden's level.
"There are only a scent few capable of fighting me". If that is a list of people who can hurt him, then Zoro and Killer will be on that list as well. That was clearly a list of people who can fight him on equal terms.
If he couldn't react to Togen Totsuka, then it's a speedblitz. That's literally what happend. Even Oden's profile mentions it. Either way, saying that Dragon Kaido>Oden makes literally no sense when a injured Oden speedblitzed and permanently scarred Dragon Kaido with one attack and traumatized Kaido till this very day.
There's a difference between being able to fight someone, and being able to hurt someone. Rocks, Prime WB, Roger, Oden, and Shanks can fight and hurt Kaido, while someone like Zoro for example can just hurt him. Zoro would NOT be someone who would be included in that list. In a 1 vs 1, Kaido would rock Zoro's shit mid diff. The same goes for Killer. They can only HURT Kaido, not FIGHT him, so it's not a list of people who can only HURT Kaido, it's a list of people who can FIGHT Kaido on equal terms.
As I said, because they're in an alliance.
Kaido never fought Garp and Sengoku, and again, neither we nor Kaido has any idea wtf Shiki is up to nor how strong he is.
???? You do realize Kaido was 21 yrs old 38 years ago, right? That picture literally says nothing, it says that Kaido and Big Mom are stronger now than they were 38 years ago. The God Valley Incident happend 38 years ago and Kaido was a young man back then. Kaido fought Oden 20 years ago, when both were 39, prime age. Weak argument.You forgot Kaido doesn't sleep in Onigashima right? He has left onigashima several times.
...Yes they're stronger now than they were 38 years ago...When they were members of Rocks...And Kaido was a 21 yrs old young man. Your point? Sengoku said that Kaido and Big Mom are stronger now than they were 38 years ago. Kaido fought Oden 20 years ago. 18 years after the God Valley Incident.
THIS IS NOT A SPEED CRT
Where's Big Mom, Sengoku, Garp, Shiki, Prime Chinjao, Mihawk, Akainu, etc.?
Bullshit. Rocks was his captain
Oh but this argument works so well for Mihawk huh, ok.
Your argument is baseless.
How is me using Kaido's own statement headcanon? If he himself thinks that only Rocks, Roger, Prime WB, Oden, and Shanks are capable of fighting him, then why would you agree with KingTempest's theory about how it's a list of people who can hurt him? You think Kaido would put Zoro and Killer on the same pedestal as those 5 legends now? Absolutely ridiculous.
It doesn't matter. My point is that putting Dragon Kaido above Oden makes no sense when Oden speedblitzed and permanently scarred him.
How many times do I gotta repeat myself?
Yes, was, but not anymore. Right now, him and Big Mom have an alliance, that's why she's not in the list. That, or there's something those 5 have, but Big Mom doesn't have. Otherwise she would be in the list too.
Kaido is a bored, suicidal drunk who's bored since Oden died and became even more bored since Whitebeard died. There's no way he never heard of Mihawk.
Kaido's own statement is baseless? Him himself saying that only a few are capable of fighting him, is baseless?
Wrong. We got two statements, one by Sengoku saying that Kaido and Big Mom are stronger now than they were 38 years ago during the God Valley Incident, where Kaido was a 21 yrs old man, and another from a random marine officer saying how "even without their captain, they're still growing". I already told you that those are weak arguments because;
So you can't read huh.
Headcanon that being in the alliance means anything.
Never fought him
No, your argument is baseless
Kaido was just going to Marineford 2 years ago.
Kaido burned Oden with Boro Breath and Boro Breath is also Kaido's "strongest ******* move" in his Dragon Form. Oden ate that and a injured Oden then proceeded to speedblitz and permanently scar Dragon Kaido to the point of traumatizing him. If a Boro Breath of Dragon Kaido can't defeat Oden but Oden defeated Dragon Kaido, then saying Dragon Kaido>Oden makes no sense.
Lmao if it's shown like that in the manga and Oden's ******* profile mentions that he did so, then he did so.
It means not being enemies lmfao. It's that easy.
We don't know how that whole thing went. We don't know who fought who. All we know is that Garp and Roger went up against the Roger Pirates. For all we know, it was Roger who beat Kaido there, not Garp, again we don't know, but it being Roger would make sense since that would explain why he's in Kaido's list.
They haven't seen each other since the God Valley Incident.
Probably because if Mihawk was so strong like you think he is, Kaido would have fought him ages ago.
Can you explain to me the logic in scaling Akainu to Rocks, Prime WB, Roger, Oden, and Shanks when a old, sick, and heavily injured WB made short work of Akainu?
Which goes against his character.
My argument is exactly what Kaido said, so you're calling Kaido's own statement an argument that is baseless. Make it make sense.
And he was stopped by Shanks, your point?
How does that relate to your argument that Kaido has gotten stronger even though the only one who said that, is a random marine officer who never even met Kaido, and Kaido denies that? Have we ever seen Jack saying that Kaido is stronger now than he was 20 years ago? No. Kaido and King went to Marineford but they were stopped by Shanks and his crew. Also not a reason to believe that Kaido has gotten stronger since he fought Oden. Drake is the ONLY reasonable example in your argument since he's a double agent and even then, how is he supposed to know that Kaido has gotten stronger since he fought Oden? You're assuming too much.
Everything you just mentioned is literally repetition and headcanon.
Can you stop taking part of the discussion if you don't even answer to what I told you? I already told you:
I'm not using any headcanon, I'm using the literal facts from the manga and Oden's profile. Kaido considers Rocks, Roger, Prime WB, Oden, and Shanks as the ones who are capbale of fighting him, that's a fact, not a headcanon, yet KingTempest tried to twist it into something else, so he's the one making headcanons by saying how it's a list of people who can hurt him. If you think that Oda tried to tell us that it's a list of those who can hurt him, then Luffy, Zoro, Killer, Scabbards, etc, would join that list too. That's clearly not the case. It's a list of people who can fight him. I'm tired of repeating the same obvious shit.
