Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,389
- 6,603
Introduction:
The purpose of this thread is to revise Mihawk's profile, specifically his scaling. Currently he scales to Vista and potentially "far higher", this "far higher" was already accepted as being stronger than Shanks (Accepted on this thread here). This structure for his scaling is arbitrary and the wording "potentially" is inaccurate considering the vast amount of evidence for Mihawk being stronger than Shanks.
Information Analysis Addition:
Mihawk on his Vivre Card states this "Not only can he discern a person's talent with a sword, he can also see the true strength of those that would stand before him" this is shown in chapter 50 when he sees Zoro and mentions he can discern their abilitiy to use a sword with just a glance.
(Source)
Scaling him Stronger than Shanks:
Put blatantly his title shouldn't be treated as "potentially" considering there's no potential or likeliness to be talked about; in the story and out of it he's only ever been referred to as "The World's Strongest Swordsman" and even "The World's Most Powerful Swordsman" this only refers to his strength plain and simple, and this isn't just a title given by character statements it's literally in his info box. And unlike Kaido where Oda was willing to add speculation "he's known as" Oda never does this for Mihawk, blatantly telling you the title isn't based on rumor.
(Source)
To further prove that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman I will show the databook statements; "He rules atop the throne of the world's strongest" stating him as the world's strongest in the databooks, "Even now he reigns supreme as the world's strongest in name and actuality, an exceptional master swordsman" name and actuality here is used to blatantly call it a fact. This alongside the manga material is fact that he's the strongest swordsman.
(Source)
Now to prove that Shanks is a swordsman and that it is Odas's intentions to have Mihawk stronger than him; starting with the manga once again, in the same info box where it states Whitebeard as "the strongest pirate" and Mihawk "The most powerful swordsman" Shanks is included on that same page, yet both Whitebeard and Mihawk still were given their power levels as they were despite Shanks being both a pirate and swordsman. Shanks throughout the entire story has only ever used a sword, he's never in canon used anything else. His two greatest feats against the strongest admiral and the strongest pirate he used his sword.
Now the Databooks, starting off with the vivre cards and specifcially Mihawks: his vivre card states this "He trained relentlessly for many years challenging more and more powerful foes until he had no more. He then joined the warlords" this is also followed by "Although hawk-eyes strikes fear into all who follow the way of the sword, he looks forward to the future, the day when he will meet a swordmaster that surpasses his rival Red-Hair" and the dates even confirm that the no more worthy foes includes shanks "Ruthlessly competes with Red-Hair > Joins the Seven Warlords" Shanks is a "Swordmaster" and Mihawk no longer views him as a worthy foe & is waiting for someone stronger than him.
(Source: 1 2 3)
Another Databook Statement says this about Shanks: "Shanks was once as powerful as the world's best swordsman (Mihawk)" this states that Shanks used to be as strong as Mihawk but no longer is that the case.
Potential Counter Arguments:
"Shanks isn't a swordsman so the title doesn't include him"
Despite not only being stated a "Top Class Swordsman" in Databook Red & In Novel Zoro being one of the Swordsmen being mentioned as contenders for the world's strongest swordsman, there's also the fact that the only way he's ever fought in the manga has been with a sword.
(Source: 1 2 3)
"They haven't fought in 12 years and Shanks became a Yonko"
"Oda asks in the sbs how Shanks actually would fight"
The statement on how he fights is rhetorical in that it’s just a reference to the topic of discussion which is swords/swordsmanship., this isn't proof that Shanks isn't a swordsman.
(Source)
"The databooks are unreliable etc"
Oda himself has referenced the databooks several times as reliable sources in his SBS, we even currently use them on the profiles so using databook info shouldn't be an issue. The Vivre Card in particular is reliable since any incorrect data it has will be corrected not only one the One Piece website but also in new releases of them cards.
(Source: 1 2)
"Mihawk's words in chapter 553"
Based on the viz translations many have interpreted Mihawk's words in this chapter to say he's far weaker than Whitebeard, however the Viz translations leave out words in Mihawk's japanese text that wouldn't imply this at all; "the real/true distance between that man and us looks close/rather small" this implies Mihawk believes there isn't that much of a difference in "real/true" distance between him and Whitebeard. Not that it would matter since Whitebeard is stronger than Shanks and thus isn't even relevant to the discussion.
(Source: 1 2)
"Mihawk was stopped by Jozu and Vista"
"Mihawk clashed evenly with Crocodile"
This was anime-only, in the manga Mihawk blocked Crocodile's sneak attack; a reminder that everytime Crocodile has attacked someone during the war it was a sneak attack.
(Source: 1 2 3 4 5)
"Mihawk wasn't included in Kaido's thoughts during chapter 1001 but Shanks was"
Firstly this is a character statement meaning it's not a completely reliable source of information; Kaido hasn't fought every single person in the verse and as far as we know he's never even met Mihawk. Kaido says "There are only a scant few capable of fighting me" and then looks to Luffy and says "How high will your ceiling go" this is in response to his earlier comment saying "What happened after I destroyed him in Kuri" he's commenting on Luffy's growth and potential and how he could reach the height of those who are capable of fighting toe-to-toe against him; to signify this characters we know have fought to some degree against Kaido appear behind Luffy. However, this doesn't mean only those five are capable of fighting Kaido since many characters who are capable of fighting Kaido were left out such as Big Mom, Garp, Sengoku and Shikki.
(Source: 1 2 3 4)
Conclusion:
Mihawk as such should be listed stronger than Shanks and I guess anyone else who applies under the category of swordsman (not counting characters who are dead or their prime selves). The Profiles changes would include adding Extrasensory Perception to his profile and his statistics would look like this:
Attack Potency: At least Large Mountain level, likely higher (He's the Strongest Swordsman in the world in both name and actuality, he's currently waiting for a worthy foe who surpasses Shanks)
Striking Strength: At least Large Mountain Class, likely higher
Durability: At least Large Mountain level, likely higher (Got through the Paramount war without a scratch to show for it despite clashing with several of Whitebeard’s commanders, including Crocodile)
The purpose of this thread is to revise Mihawk's profile, specifically his scaling. Currently he scales to Vista and potentially "far higher", this "far higher" was already accepted as being stronger than Shanks (Accepted on this thread here). This structure for his scaling is arbitrary and the wording "potentially" is inaccurate considering the vast amount of evidence for Mihawk being stronger than Shanks.
Information Analysis Addition:
Mihawk on his Vivre Card states this "Not only can he discern a person's talent with a sword, he can also see the true strength of those that would stand before him" this is shown in chapter 50 when he sees Zoro and mentions he can discern their abilitiy to use a sword with just a glance.
(Source)
Scaling him Stronger than Shanks:
Put blatantly his title shouldn't be treated as "potentially" considering there's no potential or likeliness to be talked about; in the story and out of it he's only ever been referred to as "The World's Strongest Swordsman" and even "The World's Most Powerful Swordsman" this only refers to his strength plain and simple, and this isn't just a title given by character statements it's literally in his info box. And unlike Kaido where Oda was willing to add speculation "he's known as" Oda never does this for Mihawk, blatantly telling you the title isn't based on rumor.
(Source)
To further prove that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman I will show the databook statements; "He rules atop the throne of the world's strongest" stating him as the world's strongest in the databooks, "Even now he reigns supreme as the world's strongest in name and actuality, an exceptional master swordsman" name and actuality here is used to blatantly call it a fact. This alongside the manga material is fact that he's the strongest swordsman.
(Source)
Now to prove that Shanks is a swordsman and that it is Odas's intentions to have Mihawk stronger than him; starting with the manga once again, in the same info box where it states Whitebeard as "the strongest pirate" and Mihawk "The most powerful swordsman" Shanks is included on that same page, yet both Whitebeard and Mihawk still were given their power levels as they were despite Shanks being both a pirate and swordsman. Shanks throughout the entire story has only ever used a sword, he's never in canon used anything else. His two greatest feats against the strongest admiral and the strongest pirate he used his sword.
Now the Databooks, starting off with the vivre cards and specifcially Mihawks: his vivre card states this "He trained relentlessly for many years challenging more and more powerful foes until he had no more. He then joined the warlords" this is also followed by "Although hawk-eyes strikes fear into all who follow the way of the sword, he looks forward to the future, the day when he will meet a swordmaster that surpasses his rival Red-Hair" and the dates even confirm that the no more worthy foes includes shanks "Ruthlessly competes with Red-Hair > Joins the Seven Warlords" Shanks is a "Swordmaster" and Mihawk no longer views him as a worthy foe & is waiting for someone stronger than him.
(Source: 1 2 3)
Another Databook Statement says this about Shanks: "Shanks was once as powerful as the world's best swordsman (Mihawk)" this states that Shanks used to be as strong as Mihawk but no longer is that the case.
Potential Counter Arguments:
"Shanks isn't a swordsman so the title doesn't include him"
Despite not only being stated a "Top Class Swordsman" in Databook Red & In Novel Zoro being one of the Swordsmen being mentioned as contenders for the world's strongest swordsman, there's also the fact that the only way he's ever fought in the manga has been with a sword.
(Source: 1 2 3)
"They haven't fought in 12 years and Shanks became a Yonko"
- Why they didn't fight; Shanks blatantly lost his arm, Mihawk clearly can stroll up to Shanks whenever he wants (as shown in chapter 97) and could have fought Shanks but deemed him no longer worthy, this can be assumed true as we're told and shown Mihawk has the ability to discern a person's true strength and their talent with a blade, If Shanks was stronger even without an arm (as we've seen he can still combat top tiers with just one arm) then Mihawk would see no reason not to fight him, but he doesn't.
- Him becoming a Yonko; becoming a Yonko isn't purely a strength status as it's been shown in the story (and even elaborated further in the ace novels) that to become a yonko you need influence, land, large powerful crews etc and like the name implies to be an emperor you need to rule like one, so Shanks becoming a yonko isn't actually an accurate way of determining who's stronger between Shanks and Mihawk.
"Oda asks in the sbs how Shanks actually would fight"
The statement on how he fights is rhetorical in that it’s just a reference to the topic of discussion which is swords/swordsmanship., this isn't proof that Shanks isn't a swordsman.
(Source)
"The databooks are unreliable etc"
Oda himself has referenced the databooks several times as reliable sources in his SBS, we even currently use them on the profiles so using databook info shouldn't be an issue. The Vivre Card in particular is reliable since any incorrect data it has will be corrected not only one the One Piece website but also in new releases of them cards.
(Source: 1 2)
"Mihawk's words in chapter 553"
Based on the viz translations many have interpreted Mihawk's words in this chapter to say he's far weaker than Whitebeard, however the Viz translations leave out words in Mihawk's japanese text that wouldn't imply this at all; "the real/true distance between that man and us looks close/rather small" this implies Mihawk believes there isn't that much of a difference in "real/true" distance between him and Whitebeard. Not that it would matter since Whitebeard is stronger than Shanks and thus isn't even relevant to the discussion.
(Source: 1 2)
"Mihawk was stopped by Jozu and Vista"
- Jozu; Mihawk's sword slash was stopped by Jozu in Diamond form, this isn't actually an antifeat for Mihawk for two reasons, first of all Jozu is incredibly durable with his diamond fruit and has unparalled toughness, we also know the strength of diamond is as strong as seastone which Big Mom wasn't able to break out off. There's also the fact that Mihawk with that slash wasn't intending to cut through diamond; for high level swordsman they only cut what they intend to (See Mr. 1 vs Zoro) and this was even proven with Mihawk when initially Mihawk failed to cut through Mr. 1 because Mihawk wasn't intending to cut through steel.
- Vista; Mihawk famously holds back.
"Mihawk clashed evenly with Crocodile"
This was anime-only, in the manga Mihawk blocked Crocodile's sneak attack; a reminder that everytime Crocodile has attacked someone during the war it was a sneak attack.
(Source: 1 2 3 4 5)
"Mihawk wasn't included in Kaido's thoughts during chapter 1001 but Shanks was"
Firstly this is a character statement meaning it's not a completely reliable source of information; Kaido hasn't fought every single person in the verse and as far as we know he's never even met Mihawk. Kaido says "There are only a scant few capable of fighting me" and then looks to Luffy and says "How high will your ceiling go" this is in response to his earlier comment saying "What happened after I destroyed him in Kuri" he's commenting on Luffy's growth and potential and how he could reach the height of those who are capable of fighting toe-to-toe against him; to signify this characters we know have fought to some degree against Kaido appear behind Luffy. However, this doesn't mean only those five are capable of fighting Kaido since many characters who are capable of fighting Kaido were left out such as Big Mom, Garp, Sengoku and Shikki.
(Source: 1 2 3 4)
Conclusion:
Mihawk as such should be listed stronger than Shanks and I guess anyone else who applies under the category of swordsman (not counting characters who are dead or their prime selves). The Profiles changes would include adding Extrasensory Perception to his profile and his statistics would look like this:
Attack Potency: At least Large Mountain level, likely higher (He's the Strongest Swordsman in the world in both name and actuality, he's currently waiting for a worthy foe who surpasses Shanks)
Striking Strength: At least Large Mountain Class, likely higher
Durability: At least Large Mountain level, likely higher (Got through the Paramount war without a scratch to show for it despite clashing with several of Whitebeard’s commanders, including Crocodile)
Last edited:
