- 32,359
- 20,298
So, this is long overdue, let's get this over with.
Introductio
Currently, the Devil May Cry God-Tiers are ranked as 3-A by scaling from Mundus' feat. Here is the reasoning in Mundus' profile:
Universe level (Created an entire universe to serve as a battlefield with Dante. And it has bee confirmed multiple times that he created a universe during that scene)
So the reasoning behind this is that Mundus apparently creates an entire universe to serve as a battlefield with Dante, and this is supposed to be backed up by Twitter statements from Hideki Kamiya.
Already we have certain problems, in the justification of the profile itself: The second twitter link used as evidence actually contains no response if you translate it from the Japanese at all, and the third is just Kamiya telling someone to look at his previous answer.
But regardless, let's take this at face value for now, and then let us apply further analysis onto it.
Our Policy on Author Statements
First of all, our Site Rules page states:
While our Discussion Rules page states that:
And our Editing Rules page states likewise:
So, as you can plainly see, we are VERY against using vague author statements to Tier a character, specially where they are brief replies on social media after being pestered by a large number of fans, or directly contradict the overall scale of the Verse.
With this in mind, let's see if Hideki Kamiya's statement is acceptable.
Is Hideki Kamiya Reliable?
Okay, so here is the statement in question which places the Devil May Cry God-Tiers at Universe level:
https://i.gyazo.com/4c2ef3b364267dfdfc8a8e95bda8bc4d.png
Question: During DMC1 Mundus performs a feat where he seemingly creates stars and constellations, is it accurate?
Kamiya: Universe.
That's it, a one-word response. He didn't even directly answer the question of if the feat is accurate or not, he just said "Universe". This answer borders on |Non Sequitur from how inconsequential it is.
Kamiya could have answered "Building", "Planet", "Multiverse", or "Omniverse" and the answer would make as much connective sense, but answering universe implies that he is saying it is a Universe, so people accepted it.
Regardless, take a look of some other responses from Hideki Kamiya:
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/759740219587387397
Question: Could Mundus exist outside of a 10 dimensional plane?
Kamiya: Ask him.
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/768979631605035009
Question: Does the Watcher of Time actually exist in DMC and if he does is he more powerful than Mundus?
Kamiya: Play DMC6
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/760513034573885441
Question: At their best, which character(s) can defeat Mundus in a fight?: 1.Viewtiful Joe 2.Amaterasu 3.Bayonetta 4.W101+
Kamiya: Ask ur mom.
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/758739762962272256
Question: Are Mundus's powers like Unlimited Blade Works, where inner universes are created, but are way easier to destroy th
Kamiya: Ask him.
In this particular instance, the person wasn't satisfied and asked again:
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/758824252376133633
Question: I would also love to know the answer to that, Kamiya-san. Please.
Kamiya: I'm not Mundus. Ask him.
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/746174522835894272
Question: Could Mundus destroy the Human World?
Kamiya: Could be.
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/746395066952908800
Question: So what I want to ask you is, "Mundus" Does he really create a true universe? Is he capable enough of-
Kamiya: Could be.
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/717740288244981760
Question: In dmc1 the battle between Dante and mundus in space, was Dante flying faster than the light in that battle?
Kamiya: Could be.
And finally:
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/757151357736394752
Question: Is Mundus Universe level, Mr. PG_kamiya?
Kamiya: Ask him.
So as you can see, Hideki Kamiya likes to troll people and give cryptic, uncertain, vague or ridiculous answers to these types of questions. He has even answered questions pertaining to Mundus being capable of creating a Universe (Which came before the question which he answered with "Universe.") with troll answers.
And if that hasn't made things abundantly clear yet, here's something more for you:
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/428762534837895168
Hideki Kamiya: REPEAT AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR BRAINLESS IDIOTS: ENOUGH OF WHO WIN IDIOTS. GET LOST AND ASK YOUR MOM.
So if you couldn't get it, Hideki Kamiya HATES VsDebating questions, and almost always typically answers with trolling. He is the very definition of a Trolling Creator.
Oh, and by the way, remember this rule:
It was developed because of Hideki Kamiya's vague answers.
Also, if you are observant, you will see that all of these questions came around Mid 2016, do you know why?
Because of this:
Dante VS Bayonetta DEATH BATTLE!
The Dante VS Bayonetta Death Battle, which came out on March 16 of 2016. Since it's announced, Hideki Kamiya started receiving a staggering amount of VsDebating related questions on twitter, and he always responded with trolling arguments or told people to stop.
For instance:
https://twitter.com/pg_kamiya/status/704128740398215168
https://twitter.com/pg_kamiya/status/710117717097877504
^ He was telling people to stop asking him about it since before the Death Battle even came out.
Eventually, he responded to a "Can Mundus create stars and constellations?" question with "Universe.", and since them he has usually redirected new people asking about Mundus being Universe level to that first question.
Isn't what's happening rather obvious?
Hideki Kamiya is sick and tired of fanboys pestering him about how powerful his characters are, and so he just threw that non-answer there to appease them.
It is highly unlikely that a guy who expresses a hatred of Vs Matches and Vs Debating and always responds by trolling would give a sincere response one time.
Therefore, it can be concluded that Hideki Kamiya's Twitter is not a reliable source and should be disregarded.
The Feat Without Statements
So, since we have disregarded Kamiya's statements, let's analyze the scene in itself, without using a twitter statement posted nearly 15 years after the game's release as an argument:
Here is the scene.
So Mundus spreads his wings and arms, and suddenly both him and Dante are floating in an Outer Space-like environment. This is literally all information we get on it. There's no dialogue nor clarification, nor does the Official Strategy Guide provide insight into what happened.
We can infer to possible conclusions:
Furthermore, even if it was confirmed in game that this is a dimension created by Mundus, there is absolutely nothing that indicates it warrants a Universe level rating.
Why? Look at the background and you'll see stars. That's it. Stars alone do not indicate that the dimension is universe sized. In order for that to be the case, we need to see Galaxies as well, and even then that typically only wields Multi-Galaxy level.
If this feat is to be accepted, it needs to be treated as we treat all other starry dimension feats: Multi-Solar System level.
And that's if it is accepted that this is a Creation Feat and not a Dimensional Transportation feat, and I personally feel that the later is far more likely.
Which brings me too...
The Overall Scale of Devil May Cry
Our wikia defines an Outlier as:
With that in mind, let's look at the overall scale of Devil May Cry. Just going to mention notable feats from the series:
Scaling all the strongest characters of the series from Mundus' feat, be it 4-A or 3-A is absurd. It is a humongous outlier that grossly contradicts the scale of the series as a whole.
We don't scale Kirby, a character with numerous Tier 5 and Tier 4 feats to Magolor, because it contradicts Kirby's overall scale. We don't scale God of War characters to Universe level because of statements that Cronos killed Uranus. We don't scale Paper Mario to Antasma. We also don't have the entire cast of Final Fantasy XII at Universe level+ because of Zodiark
All of these are outliers which contradict the overall scale of the characters. So we don't scale from them.
Meanwhile, Devil May Cry characters being scaled from Mundus' vague and uncertain feat is an immensely worse, because not only is it far greater than anything else in the series, but the character who performs it isn't some God Tier being who is supposed to be far stronger than everyone else in the Verse, so it shouldn't scale even to Mundus.
Other Supposed Universal Feats
Some fans of Devil May Cry argue that what Mundus does in the series isn't the only Universal feat there is, and they point to some others which they argue are also Universal. I will address them one at a time.
First:
This one is the absolute worse.
First of all, while the Official Translation says that a Demon's name is its power, the old Scanlation which is more literal to the original Japanese Doesn't mention power at all.
Secondly, this is debunked by Hideki Kamiya himself in the Devil May Cry Official Strategy Guide:
Mundus' name is outright stated to be allegorical, not literal, and it doesn't have to do with the physical universe itself. Similarly, Agni and Rudra are not literally the Hindu Gods of Fire and Wind, but simple demons with Fire and Wind powers. The names indicate something about their name, but aren't meant to be taken literally.
It is far more likely and believable that Mundus' name is Mundus because he is the Emperor of the Demon World (Vile World).
According to Kamiya himself, they chose the name Mundus because he is the Emperor of the Underworld and the name has evocative imagery:
So Mundus' name meaning "Universe" isn't meant to be taken literally. He isn'ta a Universe.
Second:
This one is just as bad. In the Official Strategy Guide, it is stated that after defeating Mundus, Dante has to escape from the collapsing Underworld:
First of all, what was collapsing wasn't the Demon World but the Mallet Island, and we know for a fact that the Demon World didn't collapse with Mundus' death because it is A-Okay in Devil May Cry 2, 4 and the Anime.
Also, even Kamiya denies this happening.
So no, this never happened.
Third:
This one is the claim you will hear the most outside of the "Universe Creation" feat from above as an argument for 3-A Devil May Cry.
However, this ignores so much context and information it is hilarious. It is a deliberate abuse of a vague statement into its highest possible interpretation.
Firstly: Mundus never literally fused the Demon World and the Human World. Read the text clearly:
In the official Translation it is: "From that era forward, the Dark fought to control the Light, and the Light struggled to defy the Dark. But the nature of man is weak and fragile, there was no way they could hope to oppose the demonic powers from the world of shadows. Light was overwhelmed by the impenetrable darkness and humanity prepared to meet its end."
And in the scanlatio it is: "Since then, Darkness stopped covering for Light and Light rebelled against Darkness to escape. However, humans are weak. They have no chance against the power of demons from the world of darkness. So Light was devoured by the depths of Darkness but at that very moment the lives of humans were about to be extinguished."
Mundus didn't literally fuse the Human World and the Demon World, no, the text is simply describing the Demonic Invasion in a poetic way.
And if you don't believe me, believe the games, which explain how the Human World and Demon World were united.
In Devil May Cry 1, Trish states:
Twenty years ago, Mundus the emperor of the underworld resurrected. (...) His powers were sealed by Sparda, he's attempting to take control of the human world again. He has been preparing to open the gate on Mallet Island."
So if Mundus was a Universal Reality Warper who could merge Universes, why would he need to open a portal?
And Devil May Cry 3 only continues further:
Lady states:
"Long ago, in ancient times, a demon rebelled against his own kind for the sake of the human race. With his sword, he shut the portal to the demonic realm and sealed the evil entity off from our human world."
So Mundus "fuses" the Human World and Demon World and invades the Earth, Sparda defeats him and... closes a portal? If Mundus had fused the universes, Sparda would have to split them again, not just shut a portal.
Arkham states:
"The Temen-ni-gru has revived. The Great One who once ruled this earth as the medium between the Human world, and the Demon world."
"People once cried out in fear of this tower. Temen-ni-gru, a foundation that brought out fear. Fear. Yes, fear. Can't you feel it? The rage and agonies of people. Those who are confined here... with their desires of evil being unfulfilled... It was all because Sparda slammed the door to the Demon World in their faces.."
"Temen-ni-gru will finally regain its full function and lead us into the Demon World."
"The huge tower jutting out of the ground? That thick shaft that causes women to shudder is actually a tunnel linking the demonic domain to the human world. (...) If you don't hop down there quick like a bunny, he'll open the gate to hell. Isn't that a scary thought?" (As Jester)
"After two thousand long years, the one sealed gate to the demonic world will open."
So the Human World and the Demon World were connected through a portal, Temen-Ni-Gru, and it was through this portal that Demonkind invaded Earth. Mundus never fused two universes. He opened a portal.
Also according to Arkham, Sparda required Prep Time and outside help to seal Temen-Ni-Gru:
"Two amulets... a set of Sparda's blood. Now I need one more key. He sacrificed two things to suppress the tremendous force of this tower: His own Devil's blood, and a mortal priestess."
So not only is it not a Dimension Merging feat, but it is also something which Sparda, Mundus' equal, requires Prep-Time to do.
Oh, and by the way, according to the Devil May Cry 3 Manga Scanlation, Mundus is incapable of Planet-Busting.
Not quite an universal character.
Conclusion
In summary, Devil May Cry being Universe level is based on misinterpretation, unreliable troll comments, outright lies and a vague feat which is a tremendous outlier one way or another.
I suggest that the profiles be downgraded to Multi-Continent level scaling from Abigail's feat, which is still the best feat of the entire Verse but much more reliable and consistent with the rest of the series.
Keeping Track of Stuff:
Agrees: TheJ-ManRequiem, The Real Cal Howard, Dragonmasterxyz, The Everlasting, Ultima Reality, Js250476, Saikou The Lewd King, LordGriffin1000, Hellbeast1, MrKingOfNegativity, Knightofannihilation666, KarmodF, Weekly Battles, FateAlbane, Gargoyle One, ArbitraryNumbers, Antoniofier, Promestein, ShrekAlmighty, Huesito88, Blahblah9755, God-King Superman77, Super Saiyan God Julian, GimmyJibbsJr, HeroicDefender97, DarkDragonMedeus, Kaltias, Dark649, Shadowbokunohero, Therefir, JustSomeWeirdo
(Also got kudos from Steel Justice, TheSandman31, Eficiente and CrossverseCrisis)
Disagrees: Sparda 20000000, O Virgílio, Kyo Takashi
Introductio
Currently, the Devil May Cry God-Tiers are ranked as 3-A by scaling from Mundus' feat. Here is the reasoning in Mundus' profile:
Universe level (Created an entire universe to serve as a battlefield with Dante. And it has bee confirmed multiple times that he created a universe during that scene)
So the reasoning behind this is that Mundus apparently creates an entire universe to serve as a battlefield with Dante, and this is supposed to be backed up by Twitter statements from Hideki Kamiya.
Already we have certain problems, in the justification of the profile itself: The second twitter link used as evidence actually contains no response if you translate it from the Japanese at all, and the third is just Kamiya telling someone to look at his previous answer.
But regardless, let's take this at face value for now, and then let us apply further analysis onto it.
Our Policy on Author Statements
First of all, our Site Rules page states:
| Do not pester or harass the authors of various works on social media about versus debating or character statistics. They are often bombarded by numerous questions from fans, and thus are rarely interested in giving a serious response. In addition, the statements they give to appease users are often contradictory to the feats in the stories of the works they have written. Thus it is frowned upon to bother them over these topics. |
| Furthermore, do not attempt to downgrade Demonbane based on Twitter comments from Jin Haganeya. He wrote the series 13 years ago, and has deviated greatly from the established scale with DYN Freaks, so he probably misremembers, or has greatly changed his mind over time. In addition, his mastery of English is limited, which makes accurate communication difficult. We also do not know how serious he is, and Twitter is an extremely unreliable medium for in-depth explanations, etcetera. As such, our standard rules for severe contradictions between a series itself and statements from the author apply, and we have to use the established original canon (borrowed from the Cthulhu Mythos) to estimate the power levels for the franchise. For further information, see here, here, and here. |
| Regarding direct information from the author/creator of a character: We do not use statements that are phrased in an uncertain, uncaring, and/or unspecific manner, such as "Could be", "Maybe", "Probably", "Possibly" etcetera. Brief or vague answers to fan-questions via social media are also generally disregarded, whereas more elaborate explanations in serious interviews are usually considered more reliable. |
| When a statement from a character, guidebook, or even word of god contradicts what occurs in the series, they won't be used. For example, if an author says that a character from his work is incapable of shattering planets, even though it has destroyed galaxies on-screen, we will always go with the latter, rather than the former. The statement need to be consistent with what has been revealed within the fictional franchise itself. Otherwise, it will be considered invalid. |
| Author statements will only be accepted when they clarify what has been shown or implied in the series itself, and will be rejected when they contradict what has been shown to the audience. Statements that technically do not contradict anything shown in the series will still be rejected if there is no evidence that they are accurate. |
With this in mind, let's see if Hideki Kamiya's statement is acceptable.
Is Hideki Kamiya Reliable?
Okay, so here is the statement in question which places the Devil May Cry God-Tiers at Universe level:
https://i.gyazo.com/4c2ef3b364267dfdfc8a8e95bda8bc4d.png
Question: During DMC1 Mundus performs a feat where he seemingly creates stars and constellations, is it accurate?
Kamiya: Universe.
That's it, a one-word response. He didn't even directly answer the question of if the feat is accurate or not, he just said "Universe". This answer borders on |Non Sequitur from how inconsequential it is.
Kamiya could have answered "Building", "Planet", "Multiverse", or "Omniverse" and the answer would make as much connective sense, but answering universe implies that he is saying it is a Universe, so people accepted it.
Regardless, take a look of some other responses from Hideki Kamiya:
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/759740219587387397
Question: Could Mundus exist outside of a 10 dimensional plane?
Kamiya: Ask him.
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/768979631605035009
Question: Does the Watcher of Time actually exist in DMC and if he does is he more powerful than Mundus?
Kamiya: Play DMC6
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/760513034573885441
Question: At their best, which character(s) can defeat Mundus in a fight?: 1.Viewtiful Joe 2.Amaterasu 3.Bayonetta 4.W101+
Kamiya: Ask ur mom.
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/758739762962272256
Question: Are Mundus's powers like Unlimited Blade Works, where inner universes are created, but are way easier to destroy th
Kamiya: Ask him.
In this particular instance, the person wasn't satisfied and asked again:
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/758824252376133633
Question: I would also love to know the answer to that, Kamiya-san. Please.
Kamiya: I'm not Mundus. Ask him.
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/746174522835894272
Question: Could Mundus destroy the Human World?
Kamiya: Could be.
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/746395066952908800
Question: So what I want to ask you is, "Mundus" Does he really create a true universe? Is he capable enough of-
Kamiya: Could be.
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/717740288244981760
Question: In dmc1 the battle between Dante and mundus in space, was Dante flying faster than the light in that battle?
Kamiya: Could be.
And finally:
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/757151357736394752
Question: Is Mundus Universe level, Mr. PG_kamiya?
Kamiya: Ask him.
So as you can see, Hideki Kamiya likes to troll people and give cryptic, uncertain, vague or ridiculous answers to these types of questions. He has even answered questions pertaining to Mundus being capable of creating a Universe (Which came before the question which he answered with "Universe.") with troll answers.
And if that hasn't made things abundantly clear yet, here's something more for you:
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/428762534837895168
Hideki Kamiya: REPEAT AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR BRAINLESS IDIOTS: ENOUGH OF WHO WIN IDIOTS. GET LOST AND ASK YOUR MOM.
So if you couldn't get it, Hideki Kamiya HATES VsDebating questions, and almost always typically answers with trolling. He is the very definition of a Trolling Creator.
Oh, and by the way, remember this rule:
| Regarding direct information from the author/creator of a character: We do not use statements that are phrased in an uncertain, uncaring, and/or unspecific manner, such as "Could be", "Maybe", "Probably", "Possibly" etcetera. Brief or vague answers to fan-questions via social media are also generally disregarded, whereas more elaborate explanations in serious interviews are usually considered more reliable. |
Also, if you are observant, you will see that all of these questions came around Mid 2016, do you know why?
Because of this:
Dante VS Bayonetta DEATH BATTLE!
The Dante VS Bayonetta Death Battle, which came out on March 16 of 2016. Since it's announced, Hideki Kamiya started receiving a staggering amount of VsDebating related questions on twitter, and he always responded with trolling arguments or told people to stop.
For instance:
https://twitter.com/pg_kamiya/status/704128740398215168
https://twitter.com/pg_kamiya/status/710117717097877504
^ He was telling people to stop asking him about it since before the Death Battle even came out.
Eventually, he responded to a "Can Mundus create stars and constellations?" question with "Universe.", and since them he has usually redirected new people asking about Mundus being Universe level to that first question.
Isn't what's happening rather obvious?
Hideki Kamiya is sick and tired of fanboys pestering him about how powerful his characters are, and so he just threw that non-answer there to appease them.
It is highly unlikely that a guy who expresses a hatred of Vs Matches and Vs Debating and always responds by trolling would give a sincere response one time.
Therefore, it can be concluded that Hideki Kamiya's Twitter is not a reliable source and should be disregarded.
The Feat Without Statements
So, since we have disregarded Kamiya's statements, let's analyze the scene in itself, without using a twitter statement posted nearly 15 years after the game's release as an argument:
Here is the scene.
So Mundus spreads his wings and arms, and suddenly both him and Dante are floating in an Outer Space-like environment. This is literally all information we get on it. There's no dialogue nor clarification, nor does the Official Strategy Guide provide insight into what happened.
We can infer to possible conclusions:
- Mundus created this dimension himself
- Mundus transported him and Dante to another dimension
Furthermore, even if it was confirmed in game that this is a dimension created by Mundus, there is absolutely nothing that indicates it warrants a Universe level rating.
Why? Look at the background and you'll see stars. That's it. Stars alone do not indicate that the dimension is universe sized. In order for that to be the case, we need to see Galaxies as well, and even then that typically only wields Multi-Galaxy level.
If this feat is to be accepted, it needs to be treated as we treat all other starry dimension feats: Multi-Solar System level.
And that's if it is accepted that this is a Creation Feat and not a Dimensional Transportation feat, and I personally feel that the later is far more likely.
Which brings me too...
The Overall Scale of Devil May Cry
Our wikia defines an Outlier as:
| An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power. |
- Mundus creating a storm over Mallet Island
- Mundus creating Mallet Island and it collapsing
- Nefasturris making the sky red and summoning storm clouds
- Arius creating a larger vortex of clouds in the sky when summoning Argosax (Needed Prep Time to do it)
- Echidna creating a thunderstorm and causing clouds to spin rapidly
- Echidna creating a rainforest over time
- Abigail's continental cloud feat
- Arkham moving clouds in a vortex when opening the gate to the demon world (Also required prep time)
- Phantom causing the clouds above Mallet Island to spin rapidly
- The Saviour starting a storm
Scaling all the strongest characters of the series from Mundus' feat, be it 4-A or 3-A is absurd. It is a humongous outlier that grossly contradicts the scale of the series as a whole.
We don't scale Kirby, a character with numerous Tier 5 and Tier 4 feats to Magolor, because it contradicts Kirby's overall scale. We don't scale God of War characters to Universe level because of statements that Cronos killed Uranus. We don't scale Paper Mario to Antasma. We also don't have the entire cast of Final Fantasy XII at Universe level+ because of Zodiark
All of these are outliers which contradict the overall scale of the characters. So we don't scale from them.
Meanwhile, Devil May Cry characters being scaled from Mundus' vague and uncertain feat is an immensely worse, because not only is it far greater than anything else in the series, but the character who performs it isn't some God Tier being who is supposed to be far stronger than everyone else in the Verse, so it shouldn't scale even to Mundus.
Other Supposed Universal Feats
Some fans of Devil May Cry argue that what Mundus does in the series isn't the only Universal feat there is, and they point to some others which they argue are also Universal. I will address them one at a time.
First:
| The name of a Demon represents its truth and power, and Mundus means "Universe", meaning that he is Universal. |
First of all, while the Official Translation says that a Demon's name is its power, the old Scanlation which is more literal to the original Japanese Doesn't mention power at all.
Secondly, this is debunked by Hideki Kamiya himself in the Devil May Cry Official Strategy Guide:
| Mundus is actually a Latin term refering to the 'vile world' or the 'imagined universe.' The world is also included in the dream-philosophy works of Carl Jung. Therefore, it is not difficult to see how the god of the evil Underworld would have such an allegorical name. |
It is far more likely and believable that Mundus' name is Mundus because he is the Emperor of the Demon World (Vile World).
According to Kamiya himself, they chose the name Mundus because he is the Emperor of the Underworld and the name has evocative imagery:
| Mundus represents the universe in Latin I believe. In the game, Dark Emperor Mundus is the ruler of the Underworld. We meant to design Mundus as a God-like image instead of a devilish image so players could feel his dignity, distinctive character, and overwhelming power. We chose this name because it has magnificent imagery. |
Second:
| Mundus' death led to the Demon World collapsing. |
First of all, what was collapsing wasn't the Demon World but the Mallet Island, and we know for a fact that the Demon World didn't collapse with Mundus' death because it is A-Okay in Devil May Cry 2, 4 and the Anime.
Also, even Kamiya denies this happening.
So no, this never happened.
Third:
| Mundus fused the Demon World and the Human World, which are the two halves of the universe. |
However, this ignores so much context and information it is hilarious. It is a deliberate abuse of a vague statement into its highest possible interpretation.
Firstly: Mundus never literally fused the Demon World and the Human World. Read the text clearly:
In the official Translation it is: "From that era forward, the Dark fought to control the Light, and the Light struggled to defy the Dark. But the nature of man is weak and fragile, there was no way they could hope to oppose the demonic powers from the world of shadows. Light was overwhelmed by the impenetrable darkness and humanity prepared to meet its end."
And in the scanlatio it is: "Since then, Darkness stopped covering for Light and Light rebelled against Darkness to escape. However, humans are weak. They have no chance against the power of demons from the world of darkness. So Light was devoured by the depths of Darkness but at that very moment the lives of humans were about to be extinguished."
Mundus didn't literally fuse the Human World and the Demon World, no, the text is simply describing the Demonic Invasion in a poetic way.
And if you don't believe me, believe the games, which explain how the Human World and Demon World were united.
In Devil May Cry 1, Trish states:
Twenty years ago, Mundus the emperor of the underworld resurrected. (...) His powers were sealed by Sparda, he's attempting to take control of the human world again. He has been preparing to open the gate on Mallet Island."
So if Mundus was a Universal Reality Warper who could merge Universes, why would he need to open a portal?
And Devil May Cry 3 only continues further:
Lady states:
"Long ago, in ancient times, a demon rebelled against his own kind for the sake of the human race. With his sword, he shut the portal to the demonic realm and sealed the evil entity off from our human world."
So Mundus "fuses" the Human World and Demon World and invades the Earth, Sparda defeats him and... closes a portal? If Mundus had fused the universes, Sparda would have to split them again, not just shut a portal.
Arkham states:
"The Temen-ni-gru has revived. The Great One who once ruled this earth as the medium between the Human world, and the Demon world."
"People once cried out in fear of this tower. Temen-ni-gru, a foundation that brought out fear. Fear. Yes, fear. Can't you feel it? The rage and agonies of people. Those who are confined here... with their desires of evil being unfulfilled... It was all because Sparda slammed the door to the Demon World in their faces.."
"Temen-ni-gru will finally regain its full function and lead us into the Demon World."
"The huge tower jutting out of the ground? That thick shaft that causes women to shudder is actually a tunnel linking the demonic domain to the human world. (...) If you don't hop down there quick like a bunny, he'll open the gate to hell. Isn't that a scary thought?" (As Jester)
"After two thousand long years, the one sealed gate to the demonic world will open."
So the Human World and the Demon World were connected through a portal, Temen-Ni-Gru, and it was through this portal that Demonkind invaded Earth. Mundus never fused two universes. He opened a portal.
Also according to Arkham, Sparda required Prep Time and outside help to seal Temen-Ni-Gru:
"Two amulets... a set of Sparda's blood. Now I need one more key. He sacrificed two things to suppress the tremendous force of this tower: His own Devil's blood, and a mortal priestess."
So not only is it not a Dimension Merging feat, but it is also something which Sparda, Mundus' equal, requires Prep-Time to do.
Oh, and by the way, according to the Devil May Cry 3 Manga Scanlation, Mundus is incapable of Planet-Busting.
| Twice he struck the Earth with an enormous spear, and did not rend it. |
Conclusion
In summary, Devil May Cry being Universe level is based on misinterpretation, unreliable troll comments, outright lies and a vague feat which is a tremendous outlier one way or another.
I suggest that the profiles be downgraded to Multi-Continent level scaling from Abigail's feat, which is still the best feat of the entire Verse but much more reliable and consistent with the rest of the series.
Keeping Track of Stuff:
Agrees: TheJ-ManRequiem, The Real Cal Howard, Dragonmasterxyz, The Everlasting, Ultima Reality, Js250476, Saikou The Lewd King, LordGriffin1000, Hellbeast1, MrKingOfNegativity, Knightofannihilation666, KarmodF, Weekly Battles, FateAlbane, Gargoyle One, ArbitraryNumbers, Antoniofier, Promestein, ShrekAlmighty, Huesito88, Blahblah9755, God-King Superman77, Super Saiyan God Julian, GimmyJibbsJr, HeroicDefender97, DarkDragonMedeus, Kaltias, Dark649, Shadowbokunohero, Therefir, JustSomeWeirdo
(Also got kudos from Steel Justice, TheSandman31, Eficiente and CrossverseCrisis)
Disagrees: Sparda 20000000, O Virgílio, Kyo Takashi
