Who truly deserves "master swordsman" on their profile?

[SatellaTheWoE]

Are we really saying she can deal with a 10x speed gap, (with AOE too, let's not forget that) because she's skilled?

Lower tier characters that Theresia upscales from can in fact do the same

While ignoring Sam humiliates dudes who are like two dozen skill ***** above where the worst of the worst have an analytical prediction bordering on precog (Including some who actually do have precog), enhanced senses, the ability to copy shit at a glance, know what the foe will do before they do it based on minute movements like muscle twitching/changes in the atmosphere/r just out predicting,

Old Wilhelm can do the same who Theresia upscales from

and have mastery in who knows how many martial arts, including one that was considered so far above any other fighting style that like 50 years after it was invented it was considered cutting edge and beyond any other martial form (And that was just a shit imitation of it, that was actively so insulting that Snake subconsciously started to use the real thing out of spite).

Theresia's skill is so advanced that even multiple lifetimes worth of training wouldn't get you to her level

She isn't dealing with a mook with a 10x speed gap, she's dealing with a dude who like hyper upscales above skill gods. Hell in MGR a literal supercomputer that can analyze and decide the best course of action, analyze something to find weakpoints, and the best place to attack is a joke.

Sounds like info analysis again something Theresia upscales to

 

[Comiphorous]

Lower tier characters that Theresia upscales from can in fact do the same

Old Wilhelm can do the same who Theresia upscales from

so just out of curiosity, has she ever actually done this? because you can't have skill in doing something you've never encountered. just because they scale to that person's skill doesn't mean they obtain all their skill feats, it just means they're comparable to them in combat intelligence.

 

[Zabazab]

It does scale due to how it works in her verse, here's the explanation.

 

[Fezzih_007]

You could link to the explanation, instead of the whole blog, like this.

Re:Zero: Warriors and The Flow Method

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Chariot190]

Lower tier characters that Theresia upscales from can in fact do the same

Didnt say she couldnt, Im saying Sam > literally about 20 skill ***** > dudes who skill **** dudes who can do that.
As in he, too, upscales a funny meme amount as well.

Old Wilhelm can do the same who Theresia upscales from

Im being literal here btw, it's like 20 skill *****, without counting the fact half of these dudes have AD for skill, in particular, enabling them to close skill gaps in a very, very, short window of time. And some of them have it so good that they close the skill gap and beat the shit out of OTHER dudes who have this shit as well.

Theresia's skill is so advanced that even multiple lifetimes worth of training wouldn't get you to her level

Lmao what? This is such a nothing statement, that's only useful in verse or compared to irl, it means **** all when put against other verses.
I brought up CQC because CQC is basically a composite martial art that dismantles all other fighting forms, and this was something thrown together for basically fun by Big Boss at his worst with his mentor (who he ends up going from getting throttled by to killing in the span of like an hour through sheer skill acceleration, while not even actively fighting bar like one fight), and then some blud makes an even BETTER version of it down the line and Big Boss just lol adapts on the fly and kicks his ass anyway (despite the dude constantly trying to mindfuck him and teleporting around in conjunction).

Sounds like info analysis again something Theresia upscales to

Yeah, from a supercomputer's IA. Which is then actively made fun of, laughed at, and stomped in like 1 second.

All you've said was "she upscales that too", yeah, I know, and I'm saying so does Sam.
She isn't dealing with some random goon with speed amps and "**** you you're dead" AOE, she's dealing with someone who has, probably, unironically, a bigger scaling chain off those types of feats than even she does (which tbh I blame Konami and Kojima, the scaling wouldn't be as cracked as it is if they didnt keep putting games before MG2).
Ergo, actually arguing "yeah she can somehow handle a 10x speed gap because upscaling skill" makes zero sense when the dude who HAS the speed gap here is also upscaling a metric fuckton off dudes who where even the equivalent of a Goomba would absolutely manhandle anything we have irl.

Hell, one of the fodder characters, that's like 12 skill ***** below Patriot Raiden, who Sam laughed at, can deal with about a dozen super-enhanced bio-engineered super soldiers, at once, who all have perception manip that makes shit slow to a crawl, and he did that casually despite also being outstated too AND can go invisible and borderline teleport which they use to attack out of nowhere and by surprise (As in he had every disadvantage from numbers, speed, strength, durability, and even hax and abilities with multiple coming at him from outta nowhere, and he kicked their asses).
Or hell, I wasn't joking when I said beating the shit out of, to the point of death, a literal psychic who is always actively reading the minds and future to make it so he's impossible to hit (bro even teleports to dodge and can go invisible) was training for Raiden before he got good (and mind you, this psychic isn't some goon, he's trained extensively and is apart of FOXHOUND, which is basically the super military).

I legitimately can not buy that this chick is somehow not going to get tagged once by the dude who's launching attacks 10x her speed, who eclipses dudes who eclipse dudes who can even deal with so many layers of bullshit it reads like a fate fanfic.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Put this dude agaunst Reid
Anyways, the speed difference feat is something i feel should still be applicable becuz its a 65x difference even with a lowball
The rest...well I am a bit busy rn so i will let somebody else take care of it

 

[Chariot190]

And how did she do it? Skill? Reading trajectory? Precog? etc. Ok.
But did she do it against someone even 1/10th as skilled as MGS2 Raiden? Idk chief.

Reminder Venom Snake can skill ***** Skulls, who can blitz him and turn invisible who jump at him outta nowhere and he can react instantly and shove their own blades down their throats

 

[VortechsTG]

Are we seriously still arguing about skill when the speed gap is obviously going to be impossible the overcome given the skill level here? Like I understand the speed gap overcame was many times more than here but the skill gap between tiger form garfiel and what's being described here for Sam is obviously soooooooooooo much more than that

 

[Comiphorous]

so noticed 'much higher reactions via skill' was added. so arguing she could deal with any of sam's amp simply isn't true at this point, as it doesn't even grant a tier above their base speed.

seems like sam really does just do his silly amp + sword and wins.

 

[VortechsTG]

so noticed 'much higher reactions via skill' was added. so arguing she could deal with any of sam's amp simply isn't true at this point, as it doesn't even grant a tier above their base speed.

seems like sam really does just do his silly amp + sword and wins.

The lowball for it is literally over 50x It's just vague the exact amount.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The lowball for it is literally over 50x It's just vague the exact amount.

well, the lowball seems to be just upscaling from the value sooooooooo

 

[Comiphorous]

The lowball for it is literally over 50x It's just vague the exact amount.

then why isn't listed as at least Massively Hypersonic? right now it says it just upscales from their base speed value.

 

[Zabazab]

so noticed 'much higher reactions via skill' was added. so arguing she could deal with any of sam's amp simply isn't true at this point, as it doesn't even grant a tier above their base speed.

That's not the case, "higher" is being used because what speed it allows them to react to depends on the skill of the opponent. The larger the gap in skill, the larger the gap in speed can become.

Ram, who Theresia is so far beyond that she could not be reached in an eternity, was able to avoid Garf while he was 65 to 130x faster (due to her being nerfed to human level), but his mind at the time was animalistic.

Kurgan, who is at a similar level of skill to Ram, was able to fight Garfiel with his mind and skill intact and make it an extremely high difficulty life-or-death fight despite Garf still being noteably faster than him still.

The reason Kurgan didn't just slap him despite Garf obviously not being >100x faster is because Garfiel himself is close to Kurgan's level of skill.

 

[DaReaperMan]

That's not the case, "higher" is being used because what speed it allows them to react to depends on the skill of the opponent. The larger the gap in skill, the larger the gap in speed can become.

Ram, who Theresia is so far beyond that she could not be reached in an eternity, was able to avoid Garf while he was 65 to 130x faster (due to her being nerfed to human level), but his mind at the time was animalistic.

Kurgan, who is at a similar level of skill to Ram, was able to fight Garfiel with his mind and skill intact and make it an extremely high difficulty life-or-death fight despite Garf still being noteably faster than him still.

The reason Kurgan didn't just slap him despite Garf obviously not being >100x faster is because Garfiel himself is close to Kurgan's level of skill.

Then put a Varies rating, explain the frankly dipshit reasoning behind it, and leave it at that.

 

[Chariot190]

Reminder Sam could blitz nanomachines with his quick draw, which scale over 10x his base speed.

Ram, who Theresia is so far beyond that she could not be reached in an eternity, was able to avoid Garf while he was 65 to 130x faster (due to her being nerfed to human level), but his mind at the time was animalistic.

Speaking of this? How far was the distance? Because even you could dodge a bullet if the distance is wide enough. If she simply dodged his trajectory because he pounced or something and due to his animalistic nature at the time, didn't actually do anything to change it. That's not the same as dodging a 50x attack from some goon via skill, it's even worse.

 

[Comiphorous]

That's not the case, "higher" is being used because what speed it allows them to react to depends on the skill of the opponent. The larger the gap in skill, the larger the gap in speed can become.

Ram, who Theresia is so far beyond that she could not be reached in an eternity, was able to avoid Garf while he was 65 to 130x faster (due to her being nerfed to human level), but his mind at the time was animalistic.

Kurgan, who is at a similar level of skill to Ram, was able to fight Garfiel with his mind and skill intact and make it an extremely high difficulty life-or-death fight despite Garf still being noteably faster than him still.

The reason Kurgan didn't just slap him despite Garf obviously not being >100x faster is because Garfiel himself is close to Kurgan's level of skill.

"This should be used to denote a character's weapons, techniques, or attributes that are much stronger than their base level, but still within the same tier."

putting 'higher' means it's in the same tier. thats the standard. a 50x, let alone a 130x difference Is not the same tier.

 

[Zabazab]

Speaking of this? How far was the distance?

She avoided several attacks from likely less than a metre away, given the fact that she just broke her knee against his chest immediately prior.

 

[Chariot190]

Was she dodging before he attacked? Even if only by a moment? AFter? Or unspecified.

 

[Zabazab]

Unspecified, I think we're considering it a feat of A-Precog.

“—You’ve grown strong, Garf.”

Haltingly, Ram murmured, her voice flowing with emotion that she rarely let others hear.

Still smiling softly, Ram leaped in and drove a knee into the great tiger’s torso. She bounced off hard; the damage to her kneecap was severe. She’d already run dry of the mana she’d used for physical enhancement; now, her body was only as strong as her petite appearance suggested.

She relied on intuition and talent to evade the countless claw swipes coming her way as she leaped backward.

 

[Chariot190]

Wait is that LITERALLY it?
That's so ******* vague it could be anything, she could be dodging it afterward (Which would make her literally comparable in speed, regardless of what the context says, and thus either an outlier, contradictory, or some other bullshit), or she was just "aim" dodging in a sense, dodging where she think he was going to attack.

Either way, the fact that's being used when it's that vague is kind of a reach, like yeah, it's good, but why is it good? You can't tell shit from that.

 

[Lonkitt]

Unspecified, I think we're considering it a feat of A-Precog.

Yeah I won’t lie, this shouldn’t be considered precog. That calls for a revision

 

[Zabazab]

We've already went over this feat multiple times in CRTs and had staff check its validity multiple times as well because it was controversial. I'm not arguing about it here.

Ram in this moment was human level due to having no mana. She then dodges "countless attacks" from up close from a character that is explicitly supersonic. She did this via her talent and intuition. That's it.

 

[Lonkitt]

We've already went over this feat multiple times in CRTs and had staff check its validity multiple times as well because it was controversial. I'm not arguing about it here.

Ram in this moment was human level due to having no mana. She then dodges "countless attacks" from up close from a character that is explicitly supersonic. She did this via her talent and intuition. That's it.

Dodging countless attacks doesn’t mean you have precog. And honestly, I doubt she really has “human level speed” in this case

 

[Bruh]

Weakest Brazilian Male Fra

 

[Zabazab]

Dodging countless attacks doesn’t mean you have precog. And honestly, I doubt she really has “human level speed” in this case

Then maybe it being in the analytical precog section of the Flow Method blog is just an error.

She is explicitly nerfed to human level however. The speed of a teenage girl. You agreed on her feat in the CRT didn't you?

 

[Lonkitt]

Then maybe it being in the analytical precog section of the Flow Method blog is just an error.

She is explicitly nerfed to human level however. The speed of a teenage girl. You agreed on her feat in the CRT didn't you?

I was against the precognition/information analysis stuff on that thread don’t you remember?

 

[Lonkitt]

Anyways, even if we did take into account the “precog”, Sam is far above what’s been shown in that verse

 

[Zabazab]

I was against the precognition/information analysis stuff on that thread don’t you remember?

Yes, and you said Ram's feat was fine.

It might not be considered precognition and was just accidentally placed in that section in the precog section of the blog, which mixed me up.

 

[Lonkitt]

Yes, and you said Ram's feat was fine.

It might not be considered precognition and was just accidentally placed in that section in the precog section of the blog, which mixed me up.

No….? That’s not the feat I was referring to. You guys messed that up

 

[Lonkitt]

I literally said twice that you can’t use dodging countless attacks as precog and information analysis SMH

 

[Zabazab]

No….? That’s not the feat I was referring to. You guys messed that up

You replied to Ram's dodging Garf feat and said it was ok, did you misread?

I'm not saying it's precog either, I was just mixed up because it was in that section of the skill blog which was likely an error.

 

[Lonkitt]

You replied to Ram's dodging Garf feat and said it was ok, did you misread?

I'm not saying it's precog either, I was just mixed up because it was in that section of the skill blog which was likely an error.

All they did was ask about Ram’s feat and I assumed it was the copying one

You guys should really clarify next time because I was absolutely not agreeing to the “”precog””

 

[Zabazab]

All they did was ask about Ram’s feat and I assumed it was the copying one

You guys should really clarify next time because I was absolutely not agreeing to the “”precog””

We did specify which feat.


Anyways voting for Samuel high dif assuming Chariot's skill talk/precog/IA is true, but that really should be added to the profile.

 

[Epiccheev]

Garfiel's skill does plummet in his fully transformed state as he goes berserk, wich would make reading him much easier.

 

[Lonkitt]

We did specify which feat.

Not really : /

 

[VortechsTG]

I literally said twice that you can’t use dodging countless attacks as precog and information analysis SMH

Nobody was arguing that. We were just assuming that was done with them because we already knew that she has them.

 

[AThe1412]

Uh, bump? Sam FRA.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Since the ram feat was basically removed isnt this a blitz stomp now?

 

[Dragonite007]

Since the ram feat was basically removed isnt this a blitz stomp now?

Always has been

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Always has been

This sent me back to 2020 and doubled it to the next person