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Re Zero Skill Evaluation Part 2

Celestial_Pegasus

Celestial_Pegasus

VS Battles
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Based on the previous thread, i have made changes to my blog, which details abilities that have been shown by warriors in Re Zero.

Here are the changes that need to be made to the profiles

Removing Accelerated Development​


Young Wilhelm​


While he did get faster and stronger throughout Ex Novel 2, by the end, where he faced Theresia, he had reached his limit, he did over 2 years of training eventually break that limit, so it should still stay as the training type, i think it should be relocated to his Young Key, instead of Peak, cause Peak Wilhelm can't get any stronger.

Elsa and Garfiel​


It was decided that neither should have it based on Elsa's feat where attacks don't work on her twice, it was decided to be a feat of analytical prediction

Everyone Else​


Currently characters scale to others accelerated development due to being more skilled, previous thread decided to remove that. A lot of the characters have reach the limit of their skills, they can't get any faster or stronger. I believe Julius, and Peak Wilhelm's accelerated development feats of getting more precise and accurate could probably still stay though.

Up to City level with Accelerated Development For Resurrected Theresia​


This is unique to her because she was resurrected into her young body. Her skills, and strength were inferior to when she was alive, but upon facing Reinhard, who is far superior to her, all her hidden strength was drawn out

His voice could not reach them.

Even his voice was left behind as the two clashed.

“____”

Theresia’s blade howled as she advanced, approaching Reinhard with a perfect slash.

It was possibly the most perfect slash he had ever seen from Theresia.

The strength of one’s opponent could draw out the latent strength lurking inside even a sword master.

And Wilhelm might have felt jealous that it was not him who managed to draw out every last bit of the hidden strength inside Theresia.

Were it not for the fact of this one brief instant that it happened in.-Volume 20, Chapter 7
Click to expand...


Power Mimicry​


Ram​


During Arc 6, Ram showed that she was able to copy Rai's technique after seeing it once, so she should get this ability

That was, the same technique as what Batenkaitos had displayed to Ram at the spiral staircase.
The art of installing blades of invisibility in space was a legendary shinobi technique, but it didn’t matter whose『Memories』it was in since he had already thrown it away.
The issue was the presence of a blade here, which Batenkaitos did not remember placing behind.

Ley: “It can’t be……”

Avoiding the blade that had slightly cut his finger, Batenkaitos attempted to advance his feet further towards the interiorーー his tiptoes were blown off, and he inclined backwards whilst shrieking “Ahii ~hk”.
And, with the inclining back of his head also slightly whittled, he rigidified his face and stood still.

ーーHe was enclosed, by invisible blades.

Ley: “……Haha, seriously?”

He had shown it to her, merely once.
Once in the midst of battle, that too it was an invisible technique, so she must not have seen it either.
Moreover, she had not ever practically even stepped foot in this place. Yet regardless, she had seized this side’s escape route, and had stationed invisible blades in advance.-Arc 6, 86
Click to expand...

Marcos​


Marcos after being hit by Roswaal's martial arts technique, copies it and uses on Roswaal

Shirking off the pain from his broken shoulder, Roswaal was confident in his victory. He’d lightly bumped into Marcos’s chest with his back. Although it left him in a backwards stance, the surface area that made contact with his body was far greater than that of his palm.

The force of the fa jin released from this position was roughly ten times stronger than that released from his palm—a force that even Marcos couldn’t withstand.

Although interwoven with magic, it was ultimately through martial arts that he overcame his opponent. Having accomplished this difficult task, he could at last report back to his teacher with pride. However, in the moment he released the fa jin, Roswaal realized something.

“───”

With his back turned, he sensed Marcos tighten his chest muscles. It was not a defensive stance to withstand Roswaal’s powerful strike—it was the initial stance done in preparation for releasing fa jin.

Occasionally, the world would give birth to a titan—a child of battle, endowed with a violent ferocity capable of overwhelming others, allowing them to readily absorb an opponent’s long-cultivated martial arts and handle them at will, as if that skill were their own.

Marcos was the perfect depiction of such a titan.

Sensing his preparation to release the fa jin, Roswaal shuddered. His contact with Marcos’ chest, which had given him such conviction in his victory, in that moment had become an omen of his opponent’s counterattack.

The match now hinged solely on who could deliver a faster, more devastating blow. Roswaal had a slight advantage in how long he had used the ability. While not particularly reliable in the face of a titan who was a master of martial arts, he had nothing else to rely upon. He put faith into these techniques, which he had cultivated and tempered every day, to surpass the existence of this titan… It was at that instant.-Once Upon a Time in Lugunica
Click to expand...

Awakened Power for Peak Wilhelm and Reid​


In life or death, or intense fights, Wilhelm has been shown to become vastly faster, and skilled, with it being compared to be on the steps of Reid. I think Reid should also get a much higher speed rating for this reason.

​

Wilhelm:「――」

Faced with『Death』that had been unleashed at him from three sides at once, the『Sword Demon’s』answer was decidedly simple.

If death unavoidable was coming for him, then he only had one yearning as a swordsman――

To use his silvery steel to thrust death faster at him.

His sword sublimated to a might that went from super-speed to hyper-speed, to hyper-speed to the speed of god, until finally transcending the very concept of steel.

Upwards, leftwards, rightwards―― He had no way of knowing what sort of feeling must have gone through the『Eight Arms’』heart the moment that he’d parried all three of his critical attacks head on.

Wilhelm:「――」

Wilhelm himself couldn’t comprehend in the very moment how stunning of a feat that it was he’d accomplished. Perhaps his sword technique had rivalled the time when he’d defeated the『Sword Saint』Theresia at the ceremony to mark the end of the Civil War; in other words, the Absolute Sword that had reached the very pinnacle――,

Kurgan:「――There was once a man who thoroughly mastered the sword」

Wilhelm:「――」

Kurgan:「That man’s sword was beautiful, wild, serene, fierce and immensely strong」

It was a dream that many swordsmen in the world longed for.

If the longing for the uttermost sword power was envy for the『Sword Saint』, then the longing for the uttermost sword technique was called――

Kurgan:「――You’ve placed your foot down on the steps of the『Heavenly Sword』?」

Wilhelm:「…Cut the bullshit out. The hell would I know about the『Heavenly Sword』」-The Sword Demon Battle Ballard, Act 8
Click to expand...


Skill Scaling​


It has been showed in the series that the flow method is the means by which all warriors perform their superhuman abilities. Essentially the more skilled you are, the better you're at circulating the magical energy inside you, which everyone uses, thus a more skilled person has to be capable of performing the same feats as a less skilled one. As a result of this some abilities have to be added. Note these are only for warriors, not magic castors

Analytical Prediction for Almost Everyone​


In my blog i showed a feat of a younger Emilia, being able to dodge a rain of arrows by reading the shooter's intent. This is an Emilia who has lived isolated from people with no formal training, and as seen later, she mostly fights as a magic castor, not a warrior, until arc 5. Thus i believe people who actually have formal training and or are just naturally talented, who fight as warriors scale to this, as they would be better at using the flow method than Emilia

Where this is iffy is for characters like Al who are stated to have second rate skills, not on the level of the mid tiers, meanwhile Emilia is currently a competent warrior, so i think she was more talented than Al

Instinctive Action For Everyone​


I think the only one really missing this is Emilia, but if there is anyone else, they should get it for being better warriors than Al

Information Analysis For Elsa tier and Above​


Elsa's feat of being able to dodge countless attacks from Puck, was decided to be accepted as info analysis, being able to avoid that many attacks, you would need to be able to analyze them, Elsa did avoid the attacks using her superior acrobatic skills, but the analysis should scale to people around and above her level.

We also see more skilled people doing similar feats such as Wilhelm being able to read, and avoid dozens of Petelguese attacks, and Ram being able to avoid fatal wounds from countless explosions

Attack Reflection for Garfiel tier and Above​


Garfiel has been showed to be able to redirect the force of his opponent's attacks

Change Fear Manipulation to Social Influencing and Aura​


On Wilhelm's profile, we currently have it listed as fear manipulation due to him being able to radiate hostility and cause fear by pointing his sword at others, that should be Social Influencing. For this ability, not quite sure it would scale to others?

Cecilus has a direct feat of Aura (Fear Inducing), and it's stated to be due to his fighting spirit and swordsmanship, anyone on his tier such as Peak Wilhelm, Theresia etc should get this ability.

Greater Information Analysis and Analytical Prediction For Ex Novel Cast​

Basically they have honed all their skills to perfection, and are at the limit of humanity, so they would obviously scale to to the untrained Emilia, and the analytical prediction they have showcased is probably better, same with info analysis, they are better than Elsa.

Greater Information Analysis and Analytical Prediction For Old Wilhelm tier​


Same logic, Old Wilhelm and Theresia were said to be masters beyond humanities limit, Ex Novel cast is at the limit in contrast, Wilhelm and Theresia have these abilities, so theirs would be better.

I would also note Wilhelm's feat against Petelguese of avoiding dozens of his invisible hands using dirt, is stated to be a feat that's inhuman, so clearly better than Elsa's feat against puck.

Damage Reduction For Old Wilhem/Ram tier and Above​


Ram is able to reduce the damage she gets from attacks with skill

Greater Information Analysis and Analytical Prediction, and Remove Resistance to Information Analysis for Peak Wilhelm tier and Above​


More of the same, essentially Theresia is meant to be the summit of skill that can never be reached, seeing flaws in everyone's fighting styles, techniques etc. Their resistance to info analysis was determined to just be them being so skilled they cover whatever openings they have, quick enough so it can't be exploited, this should be noted in their intelligence section


I think that's about it for the revisions, but i could be missing something. I would also note that while Theresia for example would have greater info analysis, it wouldn't be listed as such, just explained that it's stronger than the normal ability.
 
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This looks good I think. I agree with these changes, looking back fear manip really didn't make sense lol.

I agree with untrained Emilia > Al and thus not giving him analytical precog.

Awakened power for Reid is also supported by how casual his speed feats were I think.
 
Actually, i have another problem with analytical prediction, but i don't exactly care so i gonna keep quiet.
 
Every doubt should be spoken of to ensure this is as thorough as possible.

Also side note from looking through the blog again, do they really call Julius' Quasi-Spirits "Great Spirits" throughout all of EX 4 in the official TL? Yenpress lmao
 
For Info Analysis, did she dodge literally countless attacks? Because you can dodge an array of attacks without Info Analysis
 
Who Elsa or Ram? If it's Ram we have no visuals, but she was inside a corridor with limited room to move, and her enemy set off countless explosions at once; she avoided getting fatal wounds.

There is also the Garfiel feat where while being far inferior to him in speed (some people still want to push her being 130x slower due to it being stated at that point she was physically a normal girl), she dodged countless amount of his attacks with intuition and talent, this feat here though would just be her dodging his claws and whatnot, not a literally countless amount of attacks at once, like the other feat.

As for Elsa, Puck i think would indeed be countless attacks at once. it's stated as such, and we have visuals of what Puck's countless ice attacks look like






Anyway this section of the blog has the feats in question
 
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Celestial_Pegasus said:
Who Elsa or Ram? If it's Ram we have no visuals, but she was inside a corridor with limited room to move, and her enemy set off countless explosions; she avoided getting fatal wounds.

There is also the Garfiel feat where while being far inferior to him in speed (some people still want to push her being 130x slower due to it being stated at that point she was physically a normal girl), she dodged countless amount of his attacks with intuition and talent, this feat here though would just be her dodging his claws and whatnot, not a literally countless amount of attacks at once, like the other feat.

As for Elsa, Puck i think would indeed be countless attacks at once. it's stated as such, and we have visuals of what Puck's countless ice attacks look like






Anyway this section of the blog has the feats in question
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with info analysis for dodging Pucks attacks then. Characters can definitely dodge that without having that ability

The rest is fine
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
There is also the Garfiel feat where while being far inferior to him in speed (some people still want to push her being 130x slower due to it being stated at that point she was physically a normal girl)
Click to expand...
Why you you saying like this is incorrect? Actually, did we agree that this feat could be used still, even trought the speed diference make this don't work?
 
It was agreed that the feat is usable as in Ram with skill can face people far faster than her, but not the 130x multiplier.

That multiplier was something that needed staff discussion, but because i don't care about it, i completely forgot.
 
?

Elsa is the one who did the Puck feat. She dodged Puck's countless ice attacks using skill.

Ram has 2 feats, the one which just got mentioned above, where despite being out of mana so she couldn't physically boost herself like all superhumans in the verse do, she was able to dodge Garfiel's attacks using intuition and talent.

The 2nd Ram feat is her going up against invisible explosions, and unlike Rem who has a supernatural sense of smell which let her detect the explosion, Ram figured it out just based on how the mana felt, and dodged countless explosions inside a corridor, with only minor wounds.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
?

Elsa is the one who did the Puck feat. She dodged Puck's countless ice attacks using skill.

Ram has 2 feats, the one which just got mentioned above, where despite being out of mana so she couldn't physically boost herself like all superhumans in the verse do, she was able to dodge Garfiel's attacks using intuition and talent.

The 2nd Ram feat is her going up against invisible explosions, and unlike Rem who has a supernatural sense of smell which let her detect the explosion, Ram figured it out just based on how the mana felt, and dodged countless explosions inside a corridor, with only minor wounds.
Click to expand...
I’m simply saying the Puck based feats can’t be used
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Most of us agreed to use the term “far slower” aside from using an exact speed difference “130x”.
Click to expand...
Celestial_Pegasus said:
It was agreed that the feat is usable as in Ram with skill can face people far faster than her, but not the 130x multiplier.

That multiplier was something that needed staff discussion, but because i don't care about it, i completely forgot.
Click to expand...
But isn't Garfiel supersonic in speed and Ram supposely by the scans statement, a average human in speed? Like, even If we highball, and use atlhetic speed as a baseline, the difference in speed would be a multiplier bigger than 7, the current number for a blitz in this site.
I feel like that make this feat not usuable.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
But isn't Garfiel supersonic in speed and Ram supposely by the scans statement, a average human in speed? Like, even If we highball, and use atlhetic speed as a baseline, the difference in speed would be a multiplier bigger than 7, the current number for a blitz in this site.
I feel like that make this feat not usuable.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, we can’t just assume Ram is average human level speed simply because she’s human. Humans in the verse have displayed superhuman physical characteristics so it’s fine for her to heavily downscale or idk scale above Subaru?
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
In my opinion, we can’t just assume Ram is average human level speed simply because she’s human. Humans in the verse have displayed superhuman physical characteristics so it’s fine for her to heavily downscale or idk scale above Subaru?
Click to expand...
Is because of the scan saying her body became just as strong as her apparence suggested, which we assume to be a average human.

But i don't know If scaling above or dowscale her over Subaru would make the feat any more valid, since the speed difference is still a problem. Like, the Gap would need to be less than 8x to work.
 
Anyone without any mana, especially a hornless Oni like Ram, is unable to perform superhuman physical feats.

Subaru only has supersonic reactions because his body unconsciously uses the Flow Method in dangerous situations, which happens to most individuals with a Gate in the verse. It's sort of like superhuman adrenaline.

Ram absolutely is just a normal 18 year old without mana, and I really don't care about the 130x difference if it's controversial, "far slower" is good imo. I'm just very against scaling no-mana Ram to Garfiel or even Subaru, who could still beat her when she had a some poor-quality mana in Arc 6.
 
Zabazab said:
Ram absolutely is just a normal 18 year old without mana, and I really don't care about the 130x difference if it's controversial, "far slower" is good imo. I'm just very against scaling no-mana Ram to Garfiel or even Subaru, who could still beat her when she had a some poor-quality mana in Arc 6.
Click to expand...
Far slower also don't work trought, because of the speed difference being still massively enough to blitz.
 
Zabazab said:
Subaru only has supersonic reactions because his body unconsciously uses the Flow Method in dangerous situations, which happens to most individuals with a Gate in the verse. It's sort of like superhuman adrenaline.
Click to expand...

Those arc 7 quotes perfectly explained why Subaru can react to supersonic things. It's a recognized thing in the world that people can in mental or physical urgency use the flow method, and Subaru is a guy who is constantly under both physical and mental stress.

I love this world building.
 
It's things you don't even question at first, but they get an explanation anyway, and it makes you go "Ohhh that's how", Tappei is such a great writer.
 
Zabazab said:
Solution: Pretend we do not see it ☺️
Click to expand...
I am frankly tired of the topic, so I would also ignore it.

But let's call back the staff who replied here and see what they think @Lonkitt @DarkDragonMedeus , is Ram's feat of being able to dodge attacks from Garfiel, a supersonic character, with talent and intuition, a usable feat?

It was stated that she had no mana to strengthen herself and thus was as strong as she looked, that being a teenager.
 
Garfiel have a attack speed and combat speed of supersonic level, and Ram in the scene as downgrade to average human level, meaning Garfiel should blitz her and she should't be able to react, nor dodge Garfiel attack with just talent and intuiton.

Can a average human character moves as fast as a supersonic one?
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
I am frankly tired of the topic, so I would also ignore it.

But let's call back the staff who replied here and see what they think @Lonkitt @DarkDragonMedeus , is Ram's feat of being able to dodge attacks from Garfiel, a supersonic character, with talent and intuition, a usable feat?

It was stated that she had no mana to strengthen herself and thus was as strong as she looked, that being a teenager.
Click to expand...
Ram's feat should be all good there
 
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