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Vytal Festival Bracket, Round 1, Match 3

WeeklyBattles said:
And no, he wouldnt be detcte by Kenshi as lore-wise his senses work identically to Snake's and Boar's who were both unable to sense him
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Kenshi's senses don't operate on vibration, he sees the soul, so he would be able to spot Rabbit.

Boar's page also indicates that she was able to read his Aura, so there's nothing suggesting Kenshi couldn't do the same.
 
Either way Scorpion BFRs his ass so the same thing doesn't happen to him if Kenshi does get Zombified, so it ends up being just Scorpion vs Nova, Vin and Geralt.
 
This is also knowing the fact that all three of them know everything about each other, including tactics, so they would know to expect this shit.
 
Plus, this is all assuming Rabbit starts besides Kenshi instead of Scorpion, in which case he'd be ****** since there's no way he can strike the dude stealthily.

But yeah, the team would fall apart if that happened. And with how hard it was argued that it would...
 
The basic knowledge of his allies he gets from the rules of this bracket would let him know that he cant kill Scorpion

Dargoo explained on Discord that Scorpion would still be willing to work with Rabbit even if he killed Kenshi
 
WeeklyBattles said:
The basic knowledge of his allies he gets from the rules of this bracket would let him know that he cant kill Scorpion

Dargoo explained on Discord that Scorpion would still be willing to work with Rabbit even if he killed Kenshi
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Mm, not what he said, but you shouldn't be bringing Discord conversations into it because not everyone is in the know.

"Scorpion would view Kenshi as an ally and try to protect him." This is what Dargoo said moments after, meaning if Rabbit would attempt to take Kenshi's life Scorpion would be against it and defend Kenshi. You are failing to understand that Rabbit killing Kenshi is a conflict of interest to not only Kenshi (because obviously Kenshi wants to live) but also Scorpion because they are friends and allies, the team is incredibly self-destructive so you should drop this argument.
 
Scorpion is equally motivated to work with Rabbit and Kenshi at the start of the fight. What he does when he sees an ally of his betray and kill another is up to his character, not the stipulations.

Considering how much of a hate-boner Scorpion has for betrayals I doubt he’d just be fine with it.
 
Abstractions said:
"Scorpion would view Kenshi as an ally and try to protect him." This is what Dargoo said moments after, meaning if Rabbit would attempt to take Kenshi's life Scorpion would be against it and defend Kenshi. You are failing to understand that Rabbit killing Kenshi is a conflict of interest to not only Kenshi (because obviously Kenshi wants to live) but also Scorpion because they are friends and allies, the team is incredibly self-destructive so you should drop this argument.
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And as i already explained, Scorpion has no idea that Rabbit would immediately resort to killing Kenshi and thus would hav no means of knowing to try to protect him

If its self-destructive then its self-destructive, i am just describing how the team would canonically work with Rabbit on it
 
WeeklyBattles said:
And as i already explained, Scorpion has no idea that Rabbit would immediately resort to killing Kenshi and thus would hav no means of knowing to try to protect him
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Irrelevant, when he sees it happen he immediately turns on Rabbit, he doesn't have to stop it to be against it.
 
So again this brings up the point of whether or not Scorpion is willing to risk being killed by three other opponents while he is trying to kill his own two teammates who are working with him
 
WeeklyBattles said:
So again this brings up the point of whether or not Scorpion is willing to risk being killed by three other opponents while he is trying to kill his own two teammates who are working with him
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He has every reason to view Rabbit as a threat after witnessing him kill his friend and ally, there's no reason to assume Rabbit is working in his best interests.

You should also be realizing that Dargoo's comment is working against your narrative, them being friends at the start of the fight can immediately change based on Rabbit's actions, and will. He is directly saying that Scorpion would most certainly not be okay with Rabbit killing Kenshi and you should be realizing this when approving of his comment.
 
Cool, scorpion wouldnt be friends with him, that changes nothing about my argument. Rabbit would still kill kenshi regardless and that is an indisputable fact.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Cool, scorpion wouldnt be friends with him, that changes nothing about my argument. Rabbit would still kill kenshi regardless and that is an indisputable fact.
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Abstractions said:
So Rabbit kills Kenshi, then Scorpion has to BFR Rabbit and kill Kenshi after that. (Easily done granted they are weak to fire), then stand alone against 3 people.

Sounds counter-productive.
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Abstractions said:
He has every reason to view Rabbit as a threat after witnessing him kill his friend and ally, there's no reason to assume Rabbit is working in his best interests.
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Except he doesnt as he would know pr the rules of this bracket that Rabbit lacks the means to kill him
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Except he doesnt as he would know pr the rules of this bracket that Rabbit lacks the means to kill him
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Dargoo_Faust said:
What he does when he sees an ally of his betray and kill another is up to his character, not the stipulations.

Considering how much of a hate-boner Scorpion has for betrayals I doubt he’d just be fine with it.
Click to expand...
 
How is it a betrayal when its someone you dont know? Hell in Rabbit's eyes its not even murder let alone betrayal
 
WeeklyBattles said:
How is it a betrayal when its someone you dont know? Hell in Rabbit's eyes its not even murder let alone betrayal
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Rabbit is supposed to be working with them, but when Scorpion witnesses Kenshi being murdered by Rabbit he will see this as betrayal regardless of Rabbit not seeing it that way.
 
He is working with them though? From what im seeing you are misunderstanding the rules of this bracket which is leading to a lot of misconceptions here
 
WeeklyBattles said:
He is working with them though? From what im seeing you are misunderstanding the rules of this bracket which is leading to a lot of misconceptions here
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"All entries are fully in-character but motivated to kill their opponents for whatever reasons. They are also motivated to work alongside their teammates despite incompatible personalities."

Take note that motivation =/= allowing something against their own interests

It would be fully against Kenshi's interest to be killed by Rabbit when he wants to live and win, Rabbit killing him would be a direct conflict of interest.

It would also be fully in-character of Scorpion to hate and want to kill Rabbit for killing Kenshi to use him as a zombie, because it's against Kenshi's interests to die and he is Kenshi's friend.

It would be you misunderstanding the rules of the bracket especially when the maker of said bracket is posting comments that directly disagree with you on it.
 
I agree, being willing to collaborate with someone isn't the same as blindly accept everything they do, as well as not noticing when these things happen, especially if they aren't planned before.

Also, keep in mind that while this happens, Geralt likely starts with the mega push, Vin may throw their weapons away with Allomancy and Nova, I don't know, shoot a laser.
 
Vin was explicitly not DQed.
Dargoo_Faust said:
Deciding that since calcs for Vin/Rabbit aren't coming in anytime soon both can stay in this round as they are on their profiles.

So this is still Rabbit/Kenshi/Scorpion vs. Nova/Vin/Geralt.
Click to expand...
 
Abstractions said:
"All entries are fully in-character but motivated to kill their opponents for whatever reasons. They are also motivated to work alongside their teammates despite incompatible personalities."

Take note that motivation =/= allowing something against their own interests

It would be fully against Kenshi's interest to be killed by Rabbit when he wants to live and win, Rabbit killing him would be a direct conflict of interest.

It would also be fully in-character of Scorpion to hate and want to kill Rabbit for killing Kenshi to use him as a zombie, because it's against Kenshi's interests to die and he is Kenshi's friend.

It would be you misunderstanding the rules of the bracket especially when the maker of said bracket is posting comments that directly disagree with you on it.
Click to expand...
Except Dargoo agreed with me both here and on Discord

You really are treating Scorpion like an idiot here, claiming that he would rather fight his own allies and willingly die to his opponents just because one of his allies is using their powers, effectively turning this match into a 5v1, rather than work with his own team. You want to talk about betrayals, killing your teammates for just for using their powers is a big ass betrayal.

Hell, Scorpion in canon has worked with known traitors when it was in his better interest to do so so claiming that he would immediately turn around and murder both Rabbit and Kenshi is flat out wrong
 
Well, Scorpion may not start attacking Kenshi and Rabbit, but at least a moment of cornern and upsetting is sure. I mean, Scorpion would suddenly see his friend killed by what he considered an ally. This while they get pushed and disarmed by Geralt's telekinetic thing and Vin's metal manip.

Oh, is Vin's push still considered as being able to move multiple buildings or it can't be used, since it's what makes her jump the tier?
 
You're misunderstanding the rules Weekly, from what I can see. They are motivated to work together towards the same goal but it doesn't mean they have completely become robots who have forgotten their very own character, when the rule specifically states that they are still in character. How many times have you seen enemies or rivals teaming up to defeat someone just for the whole plan to fall apart because of their in-character differences.

The rule does not specifically force the characters to behave OOC and be okay with whatever is done to secure the victory, irrespective of the circumstances. As it stands for now, they are only motivated to work together, and are still in character, I don't see how Scorpion won't have an issue with that and be completely okay.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Except Dargoo agreed with me both here and on Discord
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He really didn't, we went over that.
WeeklyBattles said:
You really are treating Scorpion like an idiot here, claiming that he would rather fight his own allies and willingly die to his opponents just because one of his allies is using their powers, effectively turning this match into a 5v1, rather than work with his own team. You want to talk about betrayals, killing your teammates for just for using their powers is a big ass betrayal.
Click to expand...
Why are you incredibly hellbent on making Scorpion break character when we know that they are in-character here? The point is that he won't see Rabbit as an ally when he kills Kenshi, his friend, despite that not being in either of their interests. You are actively doing a disservice to Scorpion's character by suggesting this is something he would be totally okay with without any form of discussion, planning, or mutual decision among the three.

In his eyes, Rabbit will be seen as the traitor and there's no avoiding that with how the bracket is currently structured.

WeeklyBattles said:
Hell, Scorpion in canon has worked with known traitors when it was in his better interest to do so so claiming that he would immediately turn around and murder both Rabbit and Kenshi is flat out wrong
Click to expand...
Pretty sure you may be misrepresenting the context there, Kenshi is his friend and they have no reason to assume Rabbit will kill Kenshi.

It's not like he wants to murder Kenshi but will be forced to because he'd want to kill Rabbit for what he did.
 
SamanPatou said:
Well, Scorpion may not start attacking Kenshi and Rabbit, but at least a moment of cornern and upsetting is sure. I mean, Scorpion would suddenly see his friend killed by what he considered an ally. This while they get pushed and disarmed by Geralt's telekinetic thing and Vin's metal manip.

Oh, is Vin's push still considered as being able to move multiple buildings or it can't be used, since it's what makes her jump the tier?
Click to expand...
Again, Vin was DQed
 
AKM sama said:
You're misunderstanding the rules Weekly, from what I can see. They are motivated to work together towards the same goal but it doesn't mean they have completely become robots who have forgotten their very own character, when the rule specifically states that they are still in character. How many times have you seen enemies or rivals teaming up to defeat someone just for the whole plan to fall apart because of their in-character differences.

The rule does not specifically force the characters to behave OOC and be okay with whatever is done to secure the victory, irrespective of the circumstances. As it stands for now, they are only motivated to work together, and are still in character, I don't see how Scorpion won't have an issue with that and be completely okay.
Click to expand...
Not many because most competent characters know not to willingly turn the odds against themselves for a pointless vendetta that will ultimately en in their own in-vain death, especially charactrs like Scorpion who have in fact willingly worked with known traitors because it was in his best interest to do so
 
Who's right here about Vin? Weekly or Agnaa? This has to be definitely established once and for all.
 
Abstractions said:
Why are you incredibly hellbent on making Scorpion break character when we know that they are in-character here? The point is that he won't see Rabbit as an ally when he kills Kenshi, his friend, despite that not being in either of their interests. You are actively doing a disservice to Scorpion's character by suggesting this is something he would be totally okay with without any form of discussion, planning, or mutual decision among the three.

In his eyes, Rabbit will be seen as the traitor and there's no avoiding that with how the bracket is currently structured.


Pretty sure you may be misrepresenting the context there, Kenshi is his friend and they have no reason to assume Rabbit will kill Kenshi.

It's not like he wants to murder Kenshi but will be forced to because he'd want to kill Rabbit for what he did.
Click to expand...
Theydid have discussions and planning, there was an entire thread about it

So what you are honestly telling me is that Scorpion will willingly allow himself to be killed just so he can kill his own team
 
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