Vytal Festival Bracket Round 1, Match 1

[Zaratthustra]

Not the air compress I'm talking about but the soul staggering through Sunshine Refining Yang Soul In The Sky which will make Ming's fist thunderclap shatter the soul and its glow purge it (after repeated uses).

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Not the air compress I'm talking about but the soul staggering through Sunshine Refining Yang Soul In The Sky which will make Ming's fist thunderclap shatter the soul and its glow purge it (after repeated uses).

First of all why would he even think of doing that right off the bat? He doesn't have much time to do stuff and neither does Akim. Akim can be pressure point'd by Mori and he can be 1 shotted by Mirio. Why would he just up and do that right off the bat, instead of well trying to deal with the enemy that's popping up behind him to 1 shot?

Second of all that wouldn't affect Mirio who will be underground when that happens.

And fred is still a thing. A thing that can pretty much toy with both Horobi and Akim at the same time while the best they can do is be helpless against it.

 

[SamanPatou]

Satan Pony remains even if the Oleander is defeated/killed, right? That's a solid advantage

 

[Zaratthustra]

Same thing as why would Mirio go straight for Ming? Like I said first move is the Sutra then whatever he feels is the best to use be it Thousand-Armed Buddha - which speed make looks like he has 1000 hands (this hit the body and soul), Spring Thunder on the Lonely Eas Sea - if the needs to use compressed air then explode it, Tempest of the Nine Dragons - the strongest attack as it contains 9 layers of forces, or Sunshine Refining Yang Soul in the Sky which does 0 damage to the physical matter and only affects the soul.

If MIng sees that one of them dissapears of course he will resort to Sunshine Refining Yang Soul In the Sky or Thousand-Armed Buddha as they are his safest bet.

Don't forget this is speed equal, so Mirio won't be faster.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Same thing as why would Mirio go straight for Ming?

He won't go just for Ming, that's the thing he'll go after everybody at the same time. So not the same reason at all.

Like I said first move is the Sutra then whatever he feels is the best to use be it Thousand-Armed Buddha - which speed make looks like he has 1000 hands (this hit the body and soul), Spring Thunder on the Lonely Eas Sea - if the needs to use compressed air then explode it, Tempest of the Nine Dragons - the strongest attack as it contains 9 layers of forces, or Sunshine Refining Yang Soul in the Sky which does 0 damage to the physical matter and only affects the soul.

First move vs first move already gives Mirio the win.

If MIng sees that one of them dissapears of course he will resort to Sunshine Refining Yang Soul In the Sky or Thousand-Armed Buddha as they are his safest bet.

Thousand arms of Buddha vs an attack from a blind spot. Yeah Ming is not winning that one.

And if he resorts to Yang Soul, that won't affect mirio as he'll be underground at that point.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Considering that Oleander still has to, I'm guessing, summon Fred, if Oleander is killed before that happens that doesn't come into play.

Considering nearly everyone on the opposing team can OHKO or just one-shot Oleander it's very doubtful that they'll even have to worry about Fred.

I'm also guessing destroying The Unicornomicon would yeet Fred from how he's described on his profile, and everyone on the opposing team is similarly capable of doing that.

So Fred isn't, IMO, as big of a game piece as people are making him out to be.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Seeing as it's always a thing that happens in gameplay im assuming Fred is very in character to be summoned.]

Also Fred has the combat capability of Horobi and Akim combined. He is a non corporeal dude that can attack the entire battle field with punches and stuff with average AP to be sure but also has other abilities and will protect Oleander. How is he not a huge game piece? Not even considering the fact that it turns into a 4v3 which needless to say is a huge advantage.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

On that note what happened to Starter? Why isn't he active in this thread anymore?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Also Fred has the combat capability of Horobi and Akim combined. He is a non corporeal dude that can attack the entire battle field with punches and stuff with average AP to be sure but also has other abilities and will protect Oleander. How is he not a huge game piece? Not even considering the fact that it turns into a 4v3 which needless to say is a huge advantage.

Fred still has the AP of Oleander, though. Which is to say, he doesn't actually hit hard enough to trouble most of the opposing team. That and "can attack the entire battlefield" is a bit of an exaggeration considering how absurdly large Amity Arena is, the "covers the whole screen" attacks could barely be argued to cover the starting distance between the two teams, heck.

I mean, it's a 4v3 with two out of the four lacking the AP to pose a significant threat to the entire opposing team. Numbers aren't always necessarily an advantage.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Fred still has the AP of Oleander, though.

Actually no. He 1 shots Oleander's opponent. So not really same AP.

That and "can attack the entire battlefield" is a bit of an exaggeration considering how absurdly large Amity Arena is, the "covers the whole screen" attacks could barely be argued to cover the starting distance between the two teams, heck.

Will the guys spread to 50m distance though? I don't think would be smart let alone a strategy. The more they spread the more useless and helpless Ming becomes (cus people will get out of the range of his clap) and Ming is the most useful guy on the team.

I mean, it's a 4v3 with two out of the four lacking the AP to pose a significant threat to the entire opposing team.

I already showed why Fred does pose an AP threat but that's not good reasoning otherwise i can say Horobi is not a threat to Mirio AP wise cus Mirio also scales similarly higher.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Actually no. He 1 shots Oleander's opponent. So not really same AP.

Considering the strength/durability feats being used for characters like Ming that still doesn't strike me as rather impressive. That and from the video some of the attacks don't seem to one-shot.

Will the guys spread to 50m distance though? I don't think would be smart let alone a strategy. The more they spread the more useless and helpless Ming becomes (cus people will get out of the range of his clap) and Ming is the most useful guy on the team.

The claim was "can cover the entire battlefield", something that Fred doesn't do. And the attacks, being punches, lack considerable AoE so they can be avoided at a distance.

otherwise i can say Horobi is not a threat to Mirio AP wise cus Mirio also scales similarly higher.

I wasn't making that argument so I don't mind you saying that. Granted Horobi utilizes piercing attacks, which can penetrate higher AP characters regardless.

 

[SamanPatou]

You have to watch the part after the battle.
When you defeat her, there's a scene where Fred gets pissed because he worked a lot to give Oleader her powers for some sort of plan and just oneshots you because you're ruining his scheme.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

When you defeat her, there's a scene where Fred gets pissed because he worked a lot to give Oleader her powers for some sort of plan and just oneshots you because you're ruining his scheme.

Yes, but his normal attacks don't do that, which is what the other team has to worry about 90% of the time.

And that is still assuming Oleander even gets to summon Fred before being mogged by any given member of Team NAZ.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes, but his normal attacks don't do that, which is what the other team has to worry about 90% of the time.

That's just because of game's health bar though. It's not gonna deplete your entire healthbar in 1 hit.

 

[Sergeant_Hypocrite]

Her ultimate summons Fred for a small amount of time, making him unhittable in the meanwhile. However, in this state, he can't attack if she can't attack - like when she's stunned or such.

If summoned fully, they fight like this:

Yeah, just got word from Starter that Fred's "brief period" of time is 20 seconds before he returns to Unicornomicon.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean, it's a 4v3 with two out of the four lacking the AP to pose a significant threat to the entire opposing team. Numbers aren't always necessarily an advantage.

If 1 of those guys can just walk around completely unbothered by any attack the other team does, yes it's a huge advantage. The dude isn't even corporeal and can still yeet all of Horobi's danmaku. And can help mirio deal with ming.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The dude would get destroyed in two, maybe three hits by Xin.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Yes but only the part that he's attacking with. Horobi's poison isn't gonna affect him if it can't hit him. And yeah he can't breathe and all his senses are disabled when he's intangible i don't see your point though.

That's enough for Horobi to analyze and learn that Mirio has a weak point. Horobi's stinger is flexible enough to directly hit that point. If he can perfectly hit Zero-One with his attacks, he can surely hit Mirio's weak spot. He can't breathe meaning that this form is temporary. He's gonna struggle if he keeps this form up and if the fight takes long, it's gonna hurt him.

They ain't really gonna help. Im pretty sure Mori outclasses him in that regard.

He beat Aruto's TP spam before. Do I have to bring in Horobi vs Thouser / Horobi vs Ark-Zero for this?

Team NAZ starts at Ocean Biome.
They can wait there and shoot Danmaku and force Team FSS to come to them. If they come, they have to deal with Ming's Aoe Thunderclap.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The dude would get destroyed in two, maybe three hits by Xin.

And Xin is not gonna get 1 shot by Mirio how?

That's enough for Horobi to analyze and learn that Mirio has a weak point. Horobi's stinger is flexible enough to directly hit that point. If he can perfectly hit Zero-One with his attacks, he can surely hit Mirio's weak spot. He can't breathe meaning that this form is temporary. He's gonna struggle if he keeps this form up and if the fight takes long, it's gonna hurt him.

Overplaying abilities again. You're not gonna hit mirio with something that honest. You can predict it, but he can just make anything you do whiff whereas the opposite ain't true. 2 fair punches in the face from Mirio will end horobi. We're talking about a pretty hefty AP lead here.

He beat Aruto's TP spam before.

False equivalency. That's TP, not intangibility.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Out of curiosity, has either side taken definitive votes? I feel like both sides have made compelling arguments so far.

Beyond the teams (FSS and NAZ) themselves, obviously.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Just wait till I make a profile for a character who one-shots people who one-shot 9.99 Ton characters, hell totally streamroll through Hih 8-C tournament.

Seriously, how does Mirio not one-shot Yang then? Her semblance doesn't let her jump that high, and if you want to say that her aura means she got to be hit twice to be killed, then yes, and 8-B would also need two hits by that standard.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

And Xin is not gonna get 1 shot by Mirio how?

Doesn't Xin have barriers that would negate Mirio's intangibility and also have the required durability to block his punches?

And attack methods that just bypass his gimmick altogether?

I mean, Mirio trying to directly take on Xin would be one of the worst options possible for him IMO.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Doesn't Xin have barriers that would negate Mirio's intangibility and also have the required durability to block his punches?

No, he has forcefields which Mirio can just phase through, they don't negate his intangibility. They stop Mori from instantly pressure pointing him. Mirio on the other hand has a field day against them.

And attack methods that just bypass his gimmick altogether?

Yes he has 2 type of attack methods. 1 wouldn't work due to Mirio's underground warp thingy (the clap). The other isn't lethal and still requires him to punch Mirio in the first place. Meaning Mirio can 1 shot, Ming can't. But there is still the issue of "Mirio will always come up behind people to hit them" and Mirio is a much proficient fighter with his analytical prediction and just general flexibility. And as i said, the whole "1 touch is bad for Mirio" is no different from when he fought Overhaul where he didn't even have his ability on and he still never even got grazed by overhaul. He memed on overhaul so hard the dude had to resort to attacking the girl to defeat him and this was while under the effect of the quirk that gives him a drunk effect. He is sober now.

Im sorry dargoo, but the argument of "well he can hit mirio so he's a bad opponent" is shallow to say the least. When mirio has feats of mopping the floor with opponents with similar capabilities while still having way more disadvantages than he has here.

I mean, Mirio trying to directly take on Xin would be one of the worst options possible for him IMO.

It is actually 1 of the best cus Horobi and Akim cannot deal with Mori, Oleander and Fred on their own they would need Xin's claps to start standing a chance. (since mori would easily pressure point Akim, and Horobi doesn't have anything on fred or Oleander's flight).

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Out of curiosity, has either side taken definitive votes? I feel like both sides have made compelling arguments so far.

Beyond the teams (FSS and NAZ) themselves, obviously.

I have the weirdest feeling that without knowing these characters, the descriptions given here are biased and makes them seem far more powerful... like all vsbattles.

So for now, idk, it's the "these characters will actually perfectly counter the enemy's tactic despite lacking foreknowledge on them!" argument for now.

Also, every new paragraph I get an extra if the first letter (like, SSo instead of So) and it's very annoying. No reason to mention this, but I did anyways.


From what I've been told, I am relatively certain that Kamen dude would start off by throwing out ranged attacks, while undead dude would charge out because he's a psychopath who enjoys beating the shit out of people.

Xin's aura comes out, and Mori newlines for him due to wanting to go against the strongest.


There is a good chance the pony dies to Danmaku. In her fights, she either just gets hit (especially if chanting) or tries to block, both of which kill her. Her teleport is used to close in - and she gets murdered before her teammates could help her if she tries to do that.

Mori either tries to beeline and help Mori (bad idea, since the dude can just stun him as well if he does) or trusts Mori's chances at winning and tries to stall the other two.
I don't think Mori can really beat the undead dude? The guy is a possessed corpse, so he won't be having problems even if his chest caves in, and solar plexus hits don't matter if decapitation doesn't. Armor should also help against that stuff for Kamen dude.

Undead guy can also possess the ponycorn now, so that's nice.

Soul stun is a pretty nasty power, makes Mori's whole skillz and reactive stuff null for its duration and all. I doubt he would take any fatal hits in its duration though.


Now, I got no idea beyond that, because danmaku means Mirio has to stay intangible a lot (and he could very well fall into the ground and if the danmaku goes for his feet as well), and he will be senseless a good deal as well. If Kamen Rider can figure out that Mirio is intangible, he should be able to figure out that the guy with NPI is their best bet and try and switch it up with Xin. Since he can move and Danmaku, and timing it with a paralysis from Xin, it shouldn't be impossible.



While definitely up in the air, I'll go with the Team Nazi here.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Risci isn't too far off, but he made some big mistakes.

First of all he still forgot about Mirio vs Ming being a thing and assumed Ming would just be standing up to the end of the fight instead of getting 1 shot by Mirio.

Second of all he just forgot about the fact that although not very powerful Oleander's TK can be used to stop the Danmaku and Mori wouldn't let Oleander die (he cares about his teammates). Meaning mori swings once and makes Kamen Rider's Danmaku useless.

Thirdly, pressure points should work on Akim due to the fact that pressure points affect the muscles it doesn't matter whether you're alive or dead, the muscles still are the means to you being able to move. So they do work quite well.

Fourth what would Akim possessing Pony even do? Her TK is weak enough to be useless, she's very low AP meaning Mirio can just 1 shot and kill him. If anything, if he does possess he's not really gonna be useful anymore. Considering he's choosing a weaker body against the physically strongest team.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Ming has NPI. His barriers are made with the same energy as all of his attacks. There is absolutely no reason why his barriers would not have NPI.

Mireso, again, one-shotting a 7 ton is not High 8-C. If he can one-shot that guy, he can one-shot Yang.

Oliander doesn't have the lifiing strength to stop the projectiles, and I am pretty damn sure she doesn't use TK to stop projectiles.

Akim can telekinetic ally mve his limbs when detached. I'll need specific exemple of these pressure points that would make his muscles in a manner that he cannot move regardless.

It means that he can fight again. He can also possess his own teammates when they go down, making killing them once useless as well.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Here how the Golden Bell work.

Qin Mu had to use soul attacks to defeat Ming Xin.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ming has NPI. His barriers are made with the same energy as all of his attacks. There is absolutely no reason why his barriers would not have NPI.

He has npi with only 2 specific attacks. It doesn't extend to all his abilities.

Mireso, again, one-shotting a 7 ton is not High 8-C. If he can one-shot that guy, he can one-shot Yang.

It's not, but it means he can 1 shot ming. Also we dropped the yang part otherwise ming would be yeeted too.

Oliander doesn't have the lifiing strength to stop the projectiles, and I am pretty damn sure she doesn't use TK to stop projectiles.

You don't need ls that high to stop those avg projectiles. They have seemingly very low mass and their speed is pretty low too. They get tk easily. As for "doesn't do that" she's in danger dude, ofc she'll do that.

Akim can telekinetic ally mve his limbs when detached. I'll need specific exemple of these pressure points that would make his muscles in a manner that he cannot move regardless.

I'll leave this to oven.

It means that he can fight again. He can also possess his own teammates when they go down, making killing them once useless as well.

Hardly honestly. Horobi is a robot and if he goes for ming it's the same thing as before they're just in 2 now.

 

[Sergeant_Hypocrite]

What can Akim do again? I've been reading about what everyone else can do and how the ways they counter each other, but he's been a dead topic for sometime, so I want to get the ball rolling on him.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Overplaying abilities again. You're not gonna hit mirio with something that honest. You can predict it, but he can just make anything you do whiff whereas the opposite ain't true. 2 fair punches in the face from Mirio will end horobi. We're talking about a pretty hefty AP lead here.

Nope, Horobi's learning ability is absurd. (This is highlighted in Post-Revival with many feats backing it up. Even if this is not post-revival, Horobi still has the same ability in pre-revival). He will know how to deal with Mirio's intangibility. And Horobi has his fair share of taking hits really well, he can take hits as well as Zero-One (because both Horobi and Zero-One faced Thouser and won).

Horobi's arrows are redirectable (but not hard) which will be harder to deal with than straight Danmaku.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

While definitely up in the air, I'll go with the Team Nazi here.

Aight.

Might have missed earlier votes but since we've already breeched 500 comments most likely I'll start counting. Of course, not counting votes from the members of each respective team for obvious reasons.

NAZ - 1 (Ricsi)

FSS - 0

 

[Sergeant_Hypocrite]

What can Akim do again? I've been reading about what everyone else can do and how the ways they counter each other, but he's been a dead topic for sometime, so I want to get the ball rolling on him.

Before I cast my vote, may I please have an answer to this question?

 

[BERRIES555]

Before I cast my vote, may I please have an answer to this question?

From what's being said above, Akim has a laser which would be very useful since Team NAZ will start attack with Horobi's Damaku and Ming's Soul attacks. Since it's a laser, Mirio won't be able to redirect it and he's the third strongest in the entire fight. Ming's attack's stagger his opponents so the likelihood that Team FSS would take a lot of damage is pretty high.

If he dies, he could possess the body of someone that previous died in the match, excluding Horobi since he's a robot.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

bump.

There's been a good amount of arguments thusfar, have any users made votes that I missed? I've only started counting just not with Ricsi.

 

[Sergeant_Hypocrite]

Okay, so Mori and Horobi are practically dead even from what I'm seeing, so to me it comes down to their teammates. Mirio's Intangibility (especially when sinking into the ground) is an ability that only one member of Team NAZ (Ming) has a proper response to, so it's very likely to screw over the other two. Oleander summoning Fred is a huge turning point due to Fred's Non-Corporeality, regen and essentially turning the battle into a 4v3.

This is close enough to be an inconclusive, but for now I'll toss my vote to Team FSS.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Oleander isn't summoning Fred right away. She only bothered after a long, drawn out battle, and that's not really happening when she gets killed by everyone almost right away.

Plus, he still needs the book to be around even then.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Ricsi makes a good point about Fred. Regardless I'll continue counting votes.

NAZ - 1 (Ricsi)

FSS - 1 (Sergeant)

 

[Sir_Ovens]

How is Mori dead exactly? Besides the soul attacks, which can be negated by painlessness, any target Mori goes for will be mercilessly berated until they stop moving.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Ming is 8 tons, that's just plain 8-B if he 8-B one-shot, you can't argue otherwise. A x1.25 Ap advantage is not enough to one-shot no-one, and anything above is 8-B.

How is Ming one-shotting Yang? He scales twice above her AP. That's not enough to one-shot.

I guess she can now stop a 7-B projectile unless it has proof of having a lot of mass. I mean, fine if you want to argue for that, but not very widely applied logic there.

However, your argument relying on "she will use an ability in a way she hasn't show to be able to because she needs it here". She hasn't shown the ability to TK any particularly large objects. Like, not even non-superhuman levels of lifting strength. You cannot argue that her lifting and bringing a book around mid air is enough to say she can TK danmaku out of the air, when the only way to beat her in story mode is to spam throwing a rope around her.

And let's not act like no damages will be taken throughout battle besides defeat. Either Mori or Mori and Mirio are getting paralyzed and hit at least a few times.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Is this a good time to mention that Mori has 8-B to 8-A attacks?

Again, I was under the assumption were we keeping it limited to High 8-C, but if we're bringing up 8-B attacks Mori has a few.