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I know dozens of people outside this wiki who understand what invisible armament is
Emin didn't vote yet. He just said neutral arguments
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Vice Admiral Vergo vs Demon of the Blue Sea Sanji
- Thread starter Kachon123
- Start date
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Vergo FRA for now.
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Voting Vergo via tempest reason.
DaMonkeMan
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He didn't really bother to dodge throughout most of the first round. Once he realized that they could be an actual threat to him he started dodging and blocking.
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What I'm saying is Sanji will wind up breaking his legs again because this literal encounter happened in canon and we saw how it went???? Unless he uses DJ right off the bat, he'll end up losing one leg right off the bat from two/three clashes at most. We've seen this play out, it's not an assumption.
Vergo's hardened kick fractured Sanji's shin, and the dude wasn't even using his forte which is full body armament.
Sanji couldn't bypass his defense head on, he only did so while he was off guard and even then Vergo got up like nothing happened.
ON GUARD Vergo fractured his shin from their legs meeting, and he wasn't even TRYING to use haki up to that point iirc, at least not fullbody. If Base Vergo's body is enough to break base Sanji, then tekkai vergo, armament vergo and FULL BODY ARMAMENT is going to at the very absolute least be a pain in the ass for DJ Sanji too.
The gap isn't enough for Sanji to do considerable damage since he barely does to base Vergo from what we've seen in their encounter, and that likely won't change once vergo uses fullbody armament. Sanji gets worn out, his bones gradually gets broken. Vergo takes it.
Voting Vergo
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Luffy could hit Smoker/Ceaser's gaseous bodies, Smoker blocked Law's spatial cuts, Tashigi attemped to do the same but failed, she could slash Monet's snowy body and none of them were using visible black armament haki(aside Luffy in some instances against Ceaser). Tashigi was stated to be using haki on those instances so there's no headcanoning around that.
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WrongIdea21
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Vergo FRA
DaMonkeMan
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1: When did Luffy do that without visible ArmamentLuffy could hit Smoker/Ceaser's gaseous bodies, Smoker blocked Law's spatial cuts, Tashigi attemped to do the same but failed, she could slash Monet's snowy body and none of them were using visible black armament haki(aside Luffy in some instances against Ceaser). Tashigi was stated to be using haki on those instances so there's no headcanoning around that.
2: Smoker has a Seastone Jitte
3: Did Tashigi actually hurt Monet?
iirc after the timeskip Haki has always been visible so maybe you got it confused or something?
holy shit I'm tired of this argument
Vergo FRA
Sanji literally had his body roughed up already because Nami was using it recklessly.
Do you say " Aramaki would smoke King in a 1v1" because he stabbed him when he was severely weakened?
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Nami quite literally said that Sanji's body is alright even after getting it "messed up".
If anything it's nothing but a flesh wound and isn't even shown while fighting vergo which means he's alright
If anything it's nothing but a flesh wound and isn't even shown while fighting vergo which means he's alright
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Grace
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1.You could've just peeked the Haki page galleries for Ceaser's examples. Luffy could grab Smoker's arms in smoke form.
2.Only the tip of his jitte has seatstone. We see him block Law's slash with its shaft.
3.Yes.
Tashigi was said to being using haki despite the lack of black coating twice. Hawkins was blocking Law's ability with invisible haki too at the start of Wano. Pekoms punched a logia without black coating either. Do you have any real source saying post-timeskip haki is always colored?
DaMonkeMan
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Fair point Ig
But even then, those are blatant uses of Haki. Simply saying " Sanji was using invisible Haki " without actual evidence is just weird.
He clearly wasn't.
Enduring something doesn't mean it didn't hurt.
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Only Koka is Black, regular armament haki is invisible.
Nobody said he wasn't hurt
We said he wasn't hurt to the point of where Vergo's feats against him are just thrown out the window
DaMonkeMan
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Someone said this already.
Only Koka is Black, regular armament haki is invisible.
It just means Vergo slightly cracking his bone isn't as impressive as it seemed.
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Nobody sent scans, every scan I sent showed either a Logia user getting harmed/touched by someone without koka or a person stated to be using haki but no koka is shown
Smh
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Dude was still fine, he only had one moment where he addressed being 'messed up' then got over it.
Also getting hurt prior doesn't suddenly lower your durability. If Vergo fractured his shin from one clash imagine what two or three would've done to his leg. Or a Busoshoku Koka clash, Or Vergo landing any of his tekkai+Armament. He only got lucky because Vergo didn't target the same leg twice.
And again, a CASUAL VERGO at that. I love Sanji but he's not getting past a character who canonically damn near fodderized him.
DaMonkeMan
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DaMonkeMan
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Same character was getting worked by Smoker ( who got clapped by Boa and Law ) but we don't talk about that huh?
Also, Vergo was actually getting hurt by Sanji's attacks to the point where he was holding his jaw after Sanji kicked him with a DJ attack. Dunno why you're trying to hype him up as some super durable god who can clap him.
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Yellow lightning appeared when they were fighting just like it has happened with other armament haki users.
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Please don't use the yellow lightning argument
Anyways, Sanji most of the time uses Buso. Would it be flawed to say it in this instance? Maybe. Does it matter, no.
"who got clapped by Boa and Law" Boa 2 years prior when Smoker didn't even know what Haki was
Law when he wasn't using Koka
Like what
Anyways, Sanji most of the time uses Buso. Would it be flawed to say it in this instance? Maybe. Does it matter, no.
Vergo wasn't getting worked up by Smoker. At all. He got hurt with a Smoker with Armament Haki
"who got clapped by Boa and Law" Boa 2 years prior when Smoker didn't even know what Haki was
Law when he wasn't using Koka
That's what happens when you get hit in the jaw with a durability negating attack without defending yourself
Like what
DaMonkeMan
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..Are those even official colors?
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"Worked"? He got hit what, once? While trying to keep Law's heart out of reach? Handicap much?
BASE VERGO reacting with a jaw rub after a DIABLE JAMBE attack, and you're expecting Sanji to get past his armament????
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DaMonkeMan
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Smoker wasn't a Vice Admiral during Marineford when he got hit by Boa
Regardless Smoker didn't use Koka against Law and didn't even know Haki against Boa, but he used it on Smoker
On top of that, you keep messing up the order, and it's misleading and annoying
Sanji dashed to Vergo and kicked him in his head without him defending himself, which is why he was rubbing his head
Later he kicked him again, and he used Tekkai in that moment, notice how he didn't even touch his head in this instance
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Why? Cause armament has shown other lightning colors too?
All are from the official manga colors. Only Roger's i got from his vivre card.
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No because that color and a lot of those colors are shown even outside of haki users.
Yellow lightning was shown and used all the way in Enies Lobby by Franky
Officials dropped for Roger and it's consistent
The main busoshoku haki clashing colors are red+black
DaMonkeMan
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He was still bleeding lol.Smoker wasn't a Vice Admiral during Marineford when he got hit by Boa
Regardless Smoker didn't use Koka against Law and didn't even know Haki against Boa, but he used it on Smoker
On top of that, you keep messing up the order, and it's misleading and annoying
Sanji dashed to Vergo and kicked him in his head without him defending himself, which is why he was rubbing his head
Later he kicked him again, and he used Tekkai in that moment, notice how he didn't even touch his head in this instance
You need to stop acting like Armament and Tekkai makes him invincible when we've seen people hurt him and other skilled Tekkai users before.
Hell, Guernica, who's arguably above Vergo, was getting hurt by Drake and Apoo.
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OK
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Denying the antecedent fallacy
Armament makes people more durable.
Very potent armament like Vergo's makes people more durable.
Tekkai makes people more durable.
Saying "other skilled Tekkai users have been hurt before" is shit, because he's not them. He scales above them.
Sanji barely hurt him with DJ while using Tekkai. Now if he adds heat resistant Armament Haki on top of it, then that's that.
And "was getting hurt by Drake and Apoo"... who we scale to High 6-A, while Vergo's High 7-A
Like your arguments are upsetting and annoying. What does Guernica, Drake, and Apoo have to do with Vergo and Sanji
DaMonkeMan
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On the same ******* level as Guernica then, because he was hurting them.
You act like Sanji can't use Armament Haki or doesn't have stronger DJ attacks.
It's nonsensical to act like Vergo is the only one who has power ups.
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this is kinda the point.
it's not about Vergo being invincible, it's the fact that if DJ barely hurt his base, then Sanji's best caps at Vergo's base. He's got 3 more hardening amps on top of his base that'd make DJ matter less and less with each.
Sanji has invisible armament, Vergo has hardening and a greater hardening via fullbody AND Tekkai on top of his invisible armament. He just has more
DaMonkeMan
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Man I love talking to walls!
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Stupid ass ******* logic
Sanji's Haki is dogshit compared to Vergo's
And Sanji used close to his strongest moves on him while Vergo barely even tried against him.
Sanji has "barrage moves" and that's it
Vergo has "weapon, haki, stronger haki, fullbody haki, rokushiki techniques, stronger rokushiki techniques, haki infused rokushiki techniques"
Like damn you really don't see the logic?
DaMonkeMan
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Okay that was admittedly funny and good.
If I recall correctly Smoker was reacting to said Rokushiki techniques and Haki, so unless I'm just having bad memory as usual I don't see why Vergo is so high caliber.
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#1, no he wasn't
#2
Smoker
Is not
Sanji
Like what the ****
You don't know how to defend a character without derailing and bringing up a whole other character
DaMonkeMan
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Simple scaling. If Smoker reacted to Vergo, and Sanji has better Observation and reactions, he should be able to do the same.
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Why are you bringing up speed when they both scale to the same value #1
#2 Reactions, baseless, Observation, whatever
#3 Why did you just turn this into a speed fight
#4 Vergo never used Soru or Geppo on Smoker or Sanji
Please go reread Punk Hazard, I'm not boutta argue with someone who doesn't know the basic reason why Vergo, who had an entire arc to himself, isn't above the level of the dude he canonically washed
I'm out
