One Piece: Sanji vs Fujitora

[ZKillerz]

Starting Distance: 40 meters
Location: Onigashima rooftop

Post awakening sanji is being used

Fujitora: TheMonkeMan ,Yoh_Asakura8 (2) grace
Sanji: Kachon123 ,ZKillerz, Eseseso ,FluffyCreatureZ ,Arc7Kuroi ,Godernet ,Lynieryz ,Greatsage13th (8) grace
incon:

 

[ZKillerz]

I'll wait to see some arguments before I vote

 

[Nierre]

is this post awakening Sanji?

 

[ZKillerz]

is this post awakening Sanji?

Yeah

 

[Majinere566]

Someone summon Kachon

 

[ZKillerz]

Someone summon Kachon

@Kachon123

 

[ZKillerz]

bump

 

[ZKillerz]

bump

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Issho wins I'll elaborate later

 

[Kachon123]

@Kachon123

 

[Kachon123]

Voting Sanji pretty handily at that too.


Sanji scales to having grater durability, scales several blitzes above Issho's speed scaling, has greater AP, has greater durability, could possibly break Issho's sword with his body, has better haki, can destroy Issho's meteors with Hell Memories' AoE.

Sanji also can just air camp and force Issho to spam meteors until he's out of stamina.


Issho's lack of feats is what gives him the loss here.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

All of that is just completely false besides better durability.
But considering Issho is portrayed as equal or relative to Kizaru and Aramaki and had fought Sabo without fully trying leads me to believe he could beat Sanji without much difficulty.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Also, he stomped Jack.

 

[Kachon123]

But considering Issho is portrayed as equal or relative to Kizaru and Aramaki and had fought Sabo without fully trying leads me to believe he could beat Sanji without much difficulty.

What do fighting those people have to do with Sanji?

Funnily enough, as things stand as of Chapter 1084 of One Piece, Sanji scales higher than all of those characters that you listed in AP

 

[Eseseso]

Unless Issho can pin Sanji with his gravity, I think Post-Exo Sanji takes this via comparable AP, speed blitz, heat stuff, and his exoskeleton's resistance to blunt force.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Also, Issho can redirect him and his flames sideways, as shown with Sabo.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

What do fighting those people have to do with Sanji?

Funnily enough, as things stand as of Chapter 1084 of One Piece, Sanji scales higher than all of those characters that you listed in AP

He may possibly scale above Sabo, but I doubt it.
He doesn't scale above Kizaru and Aramaki however.

 

[Kachon123]

Unless Issho can pin Sanji with his gravity

Sanji's LS scales higher than Issho's, so that isn't happening.

I think Post-Exo Sanji takes this via comparable AP, speed blitz, heat stuff, and his exoskeleton's resistance to blunt force.

I agree with everything you said other than the comparable AP.

Issho's AP scales relative to Kizaru's AP, who got somewhat overpowered by Marco, who Sanji scales higher than in AP.

 

[Kachon123]

Also, Issho can redirect him and his flames sideways, as shown with Sabo.

Link doesn't work.

He doesn't scale above Kizaru and Aramaki however.

He does.

Aramaki couldn't even pierce Flame Off King.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

That was Marco using his leg ( legs are considerably more powerful than arms ) vs Kizaru's arm, and he wasn't hurt after being launched.
That's more of a strength feat than a direct AP feat.

Link doesn't work.

He does.

Aramaki couldn't even pierce Flame Off King.

With his plants. He also then managed to slam Zoan Momo and draw some blood from him, and practically tank an off guard ACoC hit from base Yamato.
Also beat Weevil.

 

[Kachon123]

That was Marco using his leg ( legs are considerably more powerful than arms ) vs Kizaru's arm,

Okay?

How is this relevant in the fight? Sanji isn't made of fire, plus Sanji has greater LS so it wouldn't even push him back.

With his plants.

That's all he has in his arsenal for AP as of chapter 1084, so I'm not sure why you're acting like he has some secret technique outside of his plants that he uses that has far greater AP.

managed to slam Zoan Momo and draw some blood from him

Sanji scales higher than this already.

practically tank an off guard ACoC hit from base Yamato

He took damage from it.

Also beat Weevil.

Weevil doesn't scale anywhere.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

As for Haki, Issho doesn't have many feats with it, but it should be above Sanji's.
He can match Sabo and even hurt his real form, and so far every Admiral has Advanced Armament and/or Koka or what ever it's called.

Okay?

How is this relevant in the fight? Sanji isn't made of fire, plus Sanji has greater LS so it wouldn't even push him back.

That's all he has in his arsenal for AP as of chapter 1084, so I'm not sure why you're acting like he has some secret technique outside of his plants that he uses that has far greater AP.

Sanji scales higher than this already.

He took damage from it.

Weevil doesn't scale anywhere.

It'd still disperse his flames, also just remembered Issho has better Observation as well.
Aramaki only got a headache from it.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

voting sanji for osesese's reasons.

 

[Kachon123]

As for Haki, Issho doesn't have many feats with it, but it should be above Sanji's.

Based on?

He can match Sabo and even hurt his real form

Sanji's haki scales far above Sabo's.

so far every Admiral had had Advanced Armament and/or Koka or what ever it's called.

Ryou Emission isn't Haki potency, so this is irrelevant.

It'd still disperse his flames

Based on?

Issho has better Observation as well.

No he does not.

Aramaki only got a headache from it.

Getting hit in the head so hard that you get a headache from it is not tanking it at all.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I'm on my phone so I can't really show proof for some of my claims, but we know that Kizaru and Akainu are above Marco in Haki and Marco is above Sanji in Haki, thus Issho would also be above him due to scaling to his fellow Admirals.
He also could hold up an island worth of rubble and precisely hit a fleet of ships with it without even grazing the grand fleet's ships, which is arguably one of the best Observation feats in the series so far.

 

[Kachon123]

Buso Haki:

Issho Haki ~ Sabo Haki > Burgess Haki = Koka > Regular Buso (2 Layers)

Current Sanji Haki > Onigashima Sanji Haki > WCI Sanji Haki > Dressrosa Haki > BOTS Sanji Haki (4 Layers)

Sanji Buso Haki > Issho Buso Haki


AP:

Long Version: Issho Fruit AP > Issho Physicals ~ Kizaru =< PTS Akainu > PTS Blackbeard >~ Marco AP
Simplified: Issho Fruit AP > Issho Physicals >~ Marco

Long Version: IJ + SS > IJ > DJ + SS Sanji > DJ Sanji > Queen Mech > Marco Durability ~ Marco AP
Simplified: IJ + SS > IJ > DJ + SS > DJ > Queen Mech > Marco

Sanji AP > Issho AP


Speed:

Long Version: Issho ~ Jack ~ Base Inuarashi ~ Ashura Doji ~< Casual Dragon and Base Kaidou ~ 1 Homie Big Mom ~ Marco
Simplified: Issho ~< Marco

Long Version: IJ + SS > IJ > DJ + SS > SS > Queen Perceptions ~ Marco
Simplified: Sanji's Fastest >> Marco

Sanji Speed > Issho Speed


Kenbun Haki:

Sanji Kenbun > Post Katakuri Luffy Kenbun > Pre Katakuri Luffy Kenbun > Doflamingo Kenbun ~ Issho Kenbun

Sanji Kenbun Haki > Issho Kenbun Haki


Stamina/Endurance:

Issho: _

Sanji:

Spoiler: Sanji's Stamina/Endurance

As a child, Sanji survived 85 days on 5 days of food without sleep[12] in order to find passing by ships. After receiving a ruthless beating[13] from Pearl in an attempt to protect Baratie, Sanji went on to fight Gin, with the latter landing many significant hits[14], resulting in Sanji breaking several ribs. Despite being in this state, Sanji was still able to fight and dodge attacks swiftly and without issue. During Arlong Park, Sanji was blindsided by Kuroobi, getting up shortly after[15]. Sanji was able to survive a brutal assault from Kuroobi underwater (where the latter's strength was doubled), which included Sanji's organs being crushed by water pressure[16]. While in this condition Sanji was able to easily outmaneuver and mercilessly decimate Kuroobi. After taking a beating by Bon Clay due to him looking like Nami, having a hole kicked through his shoulder[17], and having broken bones, Sanji was able to clash evenly with, and eventually get the better of him and win[18]. Sanji has been shown to be able to take durability negating attacks with little difficulty as shown in Skypiea, where he took several hits from Satori's Impact Dial[19], which utilizes shockwaves to target internal organs, recovering mere moments later[20]. The Reject Dial, which works identical to the Impact Dial, with the former being stronger, was able to do this when landed on Giant Jack[21]. Shortly after, Sanji was shown taking the full power of Enel's El Thor[22], having enough willpower to stay standing. In Enies Lobby, Sanji fought Kalifa, which resulted in the former being left as a bloody mess[23]. After that, he faced off against Jabra. During their fight, Sanji took several Zoan Enhanced Rokushiki attacks[24], and was still capable of helping fight off the 10,000 Marine Soldiers present[25] during the Buster Call that took place afterwards. In Thriller Bark, Sanji took a barrage of attacks from Absalom, which resulted in the former being stabbed through the chest[26]. While in this state, Sanji got hit by many attacks from Oars, fractured his leg, took Ursus Shock, and could still walk around[27].

During his 2 year long training on Momoiro Island, Sanji spent his time running away from the Okamas in fear for his life. While explaining how he learned Sky Walk, Sanji described what he went through, stating that he ran through snow, rain, and thunderstorms[28]. Given how drastically the weather in Momoiro Island changed as Sanji was running, it's clear that at least a single season changed, meaning that Sanji ran for 3 months if not more with little rest. While under going these conditions, Sanji was tasked to fight the 99 Masters of Newkama Kenpo, with each of them being powerful enough for him to believe that beating them in a fight would allow him to grow in power. In Punk Hazard, after taking a point black Gastanet[29] from Caesar Clown and being left in a state of genuine concern from Usopp[30], Sanji was able move at incredible speeds to save Tashigi from Vergo, and fight him long enough to save G-5. During their fight, Sanji was seen cracking his tibia, but continuing to fight and dodge well[31]. After being left a bloody mess by Viola[32], Sanji was able to save the crew in time before Doflamingo killed them[33]. In their scuffle, Doflamingo was able to land Pentachromatic String on Sanji, with the latter being slashed across the torso in 5 different areas, but despite this, Sanji was able to recover near-instantly, attacking back[34]. After taking King's beak attack[35], Sanji went on to get viscously tortured by Black Maria to the point where he could barely even walk[36]. While heavily bruised and bloodied, Sanji ran around Onigashima carrying Zoro while fending off against the Beast Pirates[37]. Shortly after, Sanji fought Queen for some time[38] until King joined, which resulted in Sanji being left on the ground. Recovering immediately, Sanji was able to get up and continue fighting Queen, hitting him with Diable Jambe: Mutton Shot[39]. After finally getting somewhat tired, Sanji got hit with Queen's Brachiocoilus, which broke all of Sanji's bones and ruptured his organs, with Sanji claiming that it only hurt a little bit[40]. At the crux of his battle with Queen, Sanji was hit by a barrage of Vinsmoke abilities by Queen, which resulted in exhausting Sanji even more, to the point where he had trouble getting up while trying to catch his breath. Despite being at the limits of his stamina, Sanji was able to move at extremely high speeds, which took a lot of energy to execute. In the final moments of Sanji and Queen's fight, Sanji was able to pull together every last bit of power and energy in order to use Ifrit Jambe, a newer and stronger version of Diable Jambe[41].

Sanji's Endurance/Stamina > Issho's Endurance/Stamina

Durability:

Long Version: Issho Durability ~ Aramaki Durability < Base Yamato Hao >~ Base Kaidou ~ Base Big Mom ~ Marco Durability
Simplified: Issho Durability ~< Marco Durability

Long Version: Sanji Leg + Buso > Ifrit Jambe AP > Sanji Leg > Queen Vinsmoke Amped Mech AP > Sanji Exo Body > Sanji Non-Exo Body > Queen Mech AP > Marco Durability
Simplified: Sanji's Legs at their strongest >>> Sanji's Exo Body >> Queen Mech AP > Marco

Sanji's Durability > Issho's Durability


Mobility:

Issho can stand on rocks, then use his Devil Fruit ability to move said rock through the sky

Sanji can run and jump on the sky and switch directions quickly and easily

Sanji's Mobility > Issho's Mobility

Range:

Issho can bring Meteors from space

Sanji can not

Issho's Range > Sanji's Range



Sanji wins.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

If it's not clear btw I vote Issho

 

[Kachon123]

Sanji: Kachon, Eseseso, FluffyCreatureZ
Issho: TheMonkeMan

 

[ZKillerz]

Just to clarify

Issho's portrayal doesn't warrant a comparison with the original Admirals. His strength has only been compared to Aramaki. There's no reason to assume he's relative or superior to the original Admirals.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

He's comparable to Kizaru who's one of the original ones.

 

[Kachon123]

.

Are you going to be voting for anyone in this thread?

 

[ZKillerz]

He's comparable to Kizaru who's one of the original ones.

why?

 

[ZKillerz]

Are you going to be voting for anyone in this thread?

yeah mb I didn't state it but voting for sanji fra

 

[DaMonkeMan]

why?

Because they're both Admirals?
Every Admiral is relative to each other. Doesn't matter when they became one.

 

[Kachon123]

Sanji (4): Kachon, Eseseso, FluffyCreatureZ, ZKillerz
Issho (1): TheMonkeMan

 

[ZKillerz]

Because they're both Admirals?
Every Admiral is relative to each other. Doesn't matter when they became one.

Can you show me where this is explicitly stated?

His profile only scales him to Aramaki, which makes sense because they were compared by Doflamingo. But he was never compared to the original Admirals.

 

[Kachon123]

Every Admiral is relative to each other. Doesn't matter when they became one.

This only applies to the Pre-Timeskip Admirals, as all three of them were each called "The Strongest in the Marines." If 3 people = the strongest, that means they're at the very lest relative.

Neither Aramaki nor Issho have been given that title, so they can not be called equal to the Pre-Timeskip Admirals.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I refuse to entertain this borderline despicable notion that the new Admirals are not comparable to the old ones despite having the exact same title and it being state that the only person above them is the Fleet Admiral.

Spoiler: Long list of evidence that it isn't mutual to specific Admirals

"In One Piece 15th Anniversary: Dive to Grand World(Scan 3), it states:
”海賊達を取り締まる、 歴戦の 強者! 元帥、大将、 中将･･･と階級が存在する。 上位であるほど戦闘能力とカリスマ性を 併せ持っているのだ。”
Translation: The powerful men who have fought many battles to control pirates in the past! There are various ranks: Fleet Admiral, Admiral, Vice Admiral, and so on. The higher the rank, the greater the charisma and combat ability."

And although it's in a panel that contains an outlier, we see him use visibily black Armament on his entire sword here:

He could also match Zoro, Luffy, and Sabo's Armament Haki. All of which scale to.. About 3-4 layers? Well, we know Zoro clapped Pica's full body Armament and Luffy's Armament > Doffy's Armament ~ Law's Armament > Vergo's Armament.
In terms of Observation, his is very good.

He can precisely drop rubble on only the enemy fleets, with none of it hitting the Grand Fleet or Thousand Sunny.
He can also find and drop meteors all the way from space to hit opponents.
He also matched a kick from Sabo, who used his DF, while a basic kick from Sabo had damaged Burgess and knocked him away.
Which is impressive, considering Sabo's kick did about as much damage to a stronger version of Burgess than Sengoku's shockwave did to a weaker version.

In conclusion, voting Issho for:
Better Range
Better Observation
Better Armament
Better AP
etc.

 

[Kachon123]

"In One Piece 15th Anniversary: Dive to Grand World(Scan 3), it states:
”海賊達を取り締まる、 歴戦の 強者! 元帥、大将、 中将･･･と階級が存在する。 上位であるほど戦闘能力とカリスマ性を 併せ持っているのだ。”
Translation: The powerful men who have fought many battles to control pirates in the past! There are various ranks: Fleet Admiral, Admiral, Vice Admiral, and so on. The higher the rank, the greater the charisma and combat ability."

This only states that Admirals > Vice Admirals and below. Not an indicator of relativity between Admirals.

This would help if it outright called him the Strongest in the Marines like it did for Kizaru, Akainu, and Aokiji PTS, but this says that he was appointed to the position of "Highest Strength," meaning that in this context, it's synonymous with the title "Admiral."

This alone doesn't imply that they're all relative. All it means is that they are the three strongest Marines outside of Sengoku. Are Jack, Queen, and King all relative because they are the strongest in the Beast Pirates, with the only person standing above them being Kaidou?

THis doesn't prove anything outside of stated what we already knew, that being an Admiral means that you stand above the rest of the Marines as the strongest, but doesn't necessarily mean you're relative to other admirals.

If every other Marine is a hypothetical power level of 10 and below, and Fujitora is a 60, does that make him equal or relative to another Admiral, that may be 100, or even 40? No.

He could also match Zoro, Luffy, and Sabo's Armament Haki. All of which scale to.. About 3-4 layers? Well, we know Zoro clapped Pica's full body Armament and Luffy's Armament > Doffy's Armament ~ Law's Armament > Vergo's Armament.

Fujitora never matchd Zoro or Luffy's Buso. He only matched Sabo, who scales to 2 layers.

He can precisely drop rubble on only the enemy fleets, with none of it hitting the Grand Fleet or Thousand Sunny.
He can also find and drop meteors all the way from space to hit opponents.

This is really cool, but his Kenbun scales to Doffy due to having an extended fight with him without either getting any significant on each other, and Sanji scales above that.


In conclusion, you said and proved a whole lot of nothing.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I like how none of that really debunks my point.
The All Stars don't have to be relative, they just have to be stronger than the Tobiroppo and weaker than Kaidou.
The Admirals are always portrayed as a collective power, with no Admiral being above the other.
Claiming Issho is below the others is completely baseless and simply doesn't make sense, it's simple downplay for your agenda of Sanji beating him.
"His Kenbun scales to Doffy" Who called him and Aramaki monsters, and then got scared by his equal, Kuzan?
Issho was blatantly holding back against Doffy, btw. He even said he didn't and couldn't defeat him, he wanted to leave it to Luffy and his gang.
Also, he stopped an attack from Zoro and stopped G2/G3 Luffy's Armament enhanced attacks. He definitely scales to those layers of Haki.