One Piece: Sanji vs Fujitora

[DaMonkeMan]

(although Sanji still scales higher than Kizaru in AP).

This isn't exactly relevant, but he definitely doesn't.

 

[Kachon123]

Make a CRT or just don't vote.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that something on the profiles doesn't need a CRT unless it's wrong, but this isn't wrong, so..
Anyway, I don't know why you'd feel the need to bring up Kizaru's AP < Sanji's AP, not only is it false but it makes no sense to bring it up here.

 

[ZKillerz]

I agree with kachon, if your vote relies on arguments that goes against the character profiles then it cant be counted until you make a crt

 

[Kachon123]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that something on the profiles doesn't need a CRT unless it's wrong, but this isn't wrong, so..

Hate to burst your bubble, but you are wrong.

You need a CRT for any addition that is not on the profiles to be used in a vs match.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

My argument wasn't just that Issho is comparable to Kizaru and Aramaki, though that one is also true, it was that Issho has:
Better AP
Better Observation
Better Range
Arguably more experience
And better Haki.

 

[Kachon123]

Better AP

Based on?

Better Observation

Based on?

Arguably more experience

Based on?

And better Haki.

Based on?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Hate to burst your bubble, but you are wrong.

You need a CRT for any addition that is not on the profiles to be used in a vs match.

I'm not quite sure you understand what you're even saying right now.
You claim Sanji is stronger than Kizaru, but you'd need to prove that, especially since the profiles actually do say otherwise.

 

[Kachon123]

You claim Sanji is stronger than Kizaru, but you'd need to prove that

I will prove that when you make the CRT to make Issho = Kizaru. As things stand right now, this is an irrelevant point to argue.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I will prove that when you make the CRT to make Issho = Kizaru. As things stand right now, this is an irrelevant point to argue.

Literal troll argument.

Based on?

Based on?

Based on?

Based on?

Spoiler: Long list of evidence that it isn't mutual to specific Admirals

And although it's in a panel that contains an outlier, we see him use visibily black Armament on his entire sword here:

He could also match Zoro, Luffy, and Sabo's Armament Haki. All of which scale to.. About 3-4 layers? Well, we know Zoro clapped Pica's full body Armament and Luffy's Armament > Doffy's Armament ~ Law's Armament > Vergo's Armament.
In terms of Observation, his is very good.

He can precisely drop rubble on only the enemy fleets, with none of it hitting the Grand Fleet or Thousand Sunny.
He can also find and drop meteors all the way from space to hit opponents.
He also matched a kick from Sabo, who used his DF, while a basic kick from Sabo had damaged Burgess and knocked him away.
Which is impressive, considering Sabo's kick did about as much damage to a stronger version of Burgess than Sengoku's shockwave did to a weaker version.

In conclusion, voting Issho for:
Better Range
Better Observation
Better Armament
Better AP
etc.

 

[Kachon123]

Debunked that already with this response.

This only states that Admirals > Vice Admirals and below. Not an indicator of relativity between Admirals.

This would help if it outright called him the Strongest in the Marines like it did for Kizaru, Akainu, and Aokiji PTS, but this says that he was appointed to the position of "Highest Strength," meaning that in this context, it's synonymous with the title "Admiral."

This alone doesn't imply that they're all relative. All it means is that they are the three strongest Marines outside of Sengoku. Are Jack, Queen, and King all relative because they are the strongest in the Beast Pirates, with the only person standing above them being Kaidou?


THis doesn't prove anything outside of stated what we already knew, that being an Admiral means that you stand above the rest of the Marines as the strongest, but doesn't necessarily mean you're relative to other admirals.

If every other Marine is a hypothetical power level of 10 and below, and Fujitora is a 60, does that make him equal or relative to another Admiral, that may be 100, or even 40? No.

Fujitora never matchd Zoro or Luffy's Buso. He only matched Sabo, who scales to 2 layers.

This is really cool, but his Kenbun scales to Doffy due to having an extended fight with him without either getting any significant on each other, and Sanji scales above that.


In conclusion, you said and proved a whole lot of nothing.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Buso Haki:

Issho Haki ~ Sabo Haki > Burgess Haki = Koka > Regular Buso (2 Layers)

Current Sanji Haki > Onigashima Sanji Haki > WCI Sanji Haki > Dressrosa Haki > BOTS Sanji Haki (4 Layers)

Sanji Buso Haki > Issho Buso Haki


AP:

Long Version: Issho Fruit AP > Issho Physicals ~ Kizaru =< PTS Akainu > PTS Blackbeard >~ Marco AP
Simplified: Issho Fruit AP > Issho Physicals >~ Marco

Long Version: IJ + SS > IJ > DJ + SS Sanji > DJ Sanji > Queen Mech > Marco Durability ~ Marco AP
Simplified: IJ + SS > IJ > DJ + SS > DJ > Queen Mech > Marco

Sanji AP > Issho AP


Speed:

Long Version: Issho ~ Jack ~ Base Inuarashi ~ Ashura Doji ~< Casual Dragon and Base Kaidou ~ 1 Homie Big Mom ~ Marco
Simplified: Issho ~< Marco

Long Version: IJ + SS > IJ > DJ + SS > SS > Queen Perceptions ~ Marco
Simplified: Sanji's Fastest >> Marco

Sanji Speed > Issho Speed


Kenbun Haki:

Sanji Kenbun > Post Katakuri Luffy Kenbun > Pre Katakuri Luffy Kenbun > Doflamingo Kenbun ~ Issho Kenbun

Sanji Kenbun Haki > Issho Kenbun Haki


Stamina/Endurance:

Issho: _

Sanji:
Sanji's Endurance/Stamina > Issho's Endurance/Stamina

Durability:

Long Version: Issho Durability ~ Aramaki Durability < Base Yamato Hao >~ Base Kaidou ~ Base Big Mom ~ Marco Durability
Simplified: Issho Durability ~< Marco Durability

Long Version: Sanji Leg + Buso > Ifrit Jambe AP > Sanji Leg > Queen Vinsmoke Amped Mech AP > Sanji Exo Body > Sanji Non-Exo Body > Queen Mech AP > Marco Durability
Simplified: Sanji's Legs at their strongest >>> Sanji's Exo Body >> Queen Mech AP > Marco

Sanji's Durability > Issho's Durability


Mobility:

Issho can stand on rocks, then use his Devil Fruit ability to move said rock through the sky

Sanji can run and jump on the sky and switch directions quickly and easily

Sanji's Mobility > Issho's Mobility

Range:

Issho can bring Meteors from space

Sanji can not

Issho's Range > Sanji's Range



Sanji wins.

Also I didn't bother to read this, because I figured it'd mostly be bullshit ( and I was right ), but this is almost completely wrong.
One: Marco already scales above Sanji and Queen due to scaling to the Admirals and making Zoan Queen cough blood and yell with a fireball.
Two: What you listed for Issho shows that his Haki is like, 3 layers. Also, sorry if this is a bother, but may you prove Sanji's Haki got better from the BoTS and Dressrosa keys?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Also, you're claiming Kizaru > Issho and Aramaki, right?
Do you have any proof for this? Far as I know he was never directly stated to be above them.
Faster, possibly, but not better in any other stats.
And you never actually addressed the Observation feat I brought up, you just claimed that his Observation only scales to Doflamingo's, which again doesn't make sense because Issho wasn't exactly trying to defeat him there anyway, and iirc it was a 1v1v1 between him Law and Doffy.

 

[Kachon123]

What you listed for Issho shows that his Haki is like, 3 layers

?

Sanji's Haki got better from the BoTS and Dressrosa keys?

Haki grows when you get pushed hard. His fight with Vergo fulfills the requirements.

 

[Kachon123]

Also, you're claiming Kizaru > Issho and Aramaki, right?
Do you have any proof for this? Far as I know he was never directly stated to be above them.

Feats.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

?

I read it wrong, never mind that.

Haki grows when you get pushed hard. His fight with Vergo fulfills the requirements.

This would be true, however we don't see him use Haki against Vergo.

Feats.

Such as?

 

[Kachon123]

This would be true, however we don't see him use Haki against Vergo.

Not needed.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Not needed.

It is.
You don't just magically get better Haki without using it in the fight.

 

[Kachon123]

Such as?

Rather, statements.

He was stated to be the strongest fighter in the Marines, as were Kuzan and Sakazuki, who scale above Issho and Aramaki.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Rather, statements.

He was stated to be the strongest fighter in the Marines, as were Kuzan and Sakazuki, who scale above Issho and Aramaki.

This was before Issho and Aramaki joined the navy, so you'd need to prove that the statement is still valid upon them joining.
Because as far as I'm aware, their power and charisma were deemed as worthy enough to replace the gaps left by Sakazuki and Kuzan, which implies they have power relative to their's.

 

[Kachon123]

It is.
You don't just magically get better Haki without using it in the fight.

Haki gets better when your're is pushed.

 

[Kachon123]

This was before Issho and Aramaki joined the navy, so you'd need to prove that the statement is still valid upon them joining.
Because as far as I'm aware, their power and charisma were deemed as worthy enough to replace the gaps left by Sakazuki and Kuzan, which implies they have power relative to their's.

I was referring to PTS Akainu and Kuzan, who still scale higher than Issho and Aramaki.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Reading these arguments and the only thing I’m thinking is common Sanji W. Kachon mad convincing rn, voting Wanji via meatriding Kachon’s arguments

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Haki gets better when your're is pushed.

Not how it works little buddy.

I was referring to PTS Akainu and Kuzan, who still scale higher than Issho and Aramaki.

PTS as in Post Timeskip right?
Not sure how you think that, though.
Akainu, sure, as he beat Kuzan extreme diff and is now the FA.
But what would put Kuzan over them?
Again, they thought they were strong enough to replace Kuzan and Sakazuki in terms of power. Why would they do this if they were actually inferior? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[Kachon123]

PTS as in Post Timeskip right?

TS = Timeskip
PTS = Pre-Timeskip

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Reading these arguments and the only thing I’m thinking is common Sanji W. Kachon mad convincing rn, voting Wanji via meatriding Kachon’s arguments

Is this serious or are you just acting like a demented dingbat?

TS = Timeskip
PTS = Pre-Timeskip

Ah, then you're completely wrong.

 

[Kachon123]

Not how it works little buddy.

It quite literally is. Read the Haki page:

Haki

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Godernet]

If we were voting off of Narrative I’d probably say Fuji. But this is strictly based on feats and whose argument is more convincing.

And Sanji definitely has better Speed, Ap, Endurance, and Haki feats rn. That could change eventually but for now Sanji wins solely off of having more showings.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Is this serious or are you just acting like a demented dingbat?

Keep coping that Kachon is giving you the meat rn. Yes my vote’s serious put me down for Wanji @ZKillerz

 

[Kachon123]

Sanji (6): Kachon, Eseseso, FluffyCreatureZ, ZKillerz, Arc7Kuroi, Godernet
Issho (1): TheMonkeMan

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Yes my vote’s serious put me down for Wanji @ZKillerz

Ah, alright then.

If we were voting off of Narrative I’d probably say Fuji. But this is strictly based on feats and whose argument is more convincing.

Sanji definitely has better Speed, Ap, and Haki feats rn. That could change eventually but for now Sanji wins solely off of having more showings.

How does he have superior AP?

It quite literally is. Read the Haki page:

Haki

vsbattles.fandom.com

None of that says that your Haki passively grows when you aren't using it in a fight.

 

[Kachon123]

None of that says that your Haki passively grows when you aren't using it in a fight.

Haki can become stronger in combat, especially against powerful foes

Koby learned how to use Observation Haki via being surrounded by combat

Rayleigh has said that fighting users with superior Haki allows one to temper and improve their Haki in the heat of battle

Haki develops simply by being in the heat of battle. I know you've read One Piece. Stop being disingenuous.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Oh brother.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Can someone list wincons btw

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

I vote for issho, I don't see sanji winning. Sanji only has speed an durability over him. Everything else falls to issho. Both arguments sum butt.

Sanji's haki jump from being helmeppo lvl since wholecake to being on par with admirals in a span of 2-3weeks ain't adding up. No sir, his buso has always been terrible. He's only able to contend due to raid suit or his robot lineage factor.


Issho has more range and versatility being able to accurately lift and move rubble around the surrounding area to attack sanji, pinn him or chibaku tensei his ass.
Send him out orbit or sum by bfr.
Attack redirection with gravity.
better observation haki.

Once sanji is pinned by issho, he meteor spams or bfr by sending him 6ft under. Gg

My vote goes to issho. I will continue to read.

 

[Kachon123]

Issho: Range, Versatility, Debatable Experience

Sanji: AP, Speed, Buso, Heat, Mobility, Durability, Stamina, Intelligence, Endurance, Regen, LS,

 

[Kachon123]

Everything else falls to issho

Based on?

Sanji's haki jump from being helmeppo lvl since wholecake to being on par with admirals in a span of 2-3weeks ain't adding up. No sir, his buso has always been terrible. He's only able to contend due to raid suit or his robot lineage factor.

Prove this.

lift and move rubble around the surrounding area to attack sanji

Sanji can simply destroy it or blitz it with his superior speed.

pinn him or chibaku tensei his ass.
Send him out orbit or sum by bfr.

Sanji has greater LS, so this isn't happening.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I vote for issho, I don't see sanji winning. Sanji only has speed an durability over him. Everything else falls to issho. Both arguments sum butt.

Sanji's haki jump from being helmeppo lvl since wholecake to being on par with admirals in a span of 2-3weeks ain't adding up. No sir, his buso has always been terrible. He's only able to contend due to raid suit or his robot lineage factor.


Issho has more range and versatility being able to accurately lift and move rubble around the surrounding area to attack sanji, pinn him or chibaku tensei his ass.
Send him out orbit or sum by bfr.
Attack redirection with gravity.
better observation haki.

Once sanji is pinned by issho, he meteor spams or bfr by sending him 6ft under. Gg

My vote goes to issho. I will continue to read.

Nice.
6-2.

Issho: Range, Versatility, Debatable Experience

Sanji: AP, Speed, Buso, Heat, Mobility, Durability, Stamina, Intelligence, Endurance, Regen, LS,

iirc AP goes to Issho, Stamina is debatable ( Issho should scale above his stamina if we scale him to the other Admirals, 2 of which had fought for 10 days )
Btw, how does he have superior LS?

 

[Godernet]

How does he have superior AP?

Superior AP feats*

One stalemated Sabo who doesn’t really chain off anyone.

the other deep fried an Ancient Zoan Cyborg who scales to at least 5 other strong people in that tier.

Sanji just has a higher chain since unfortunately most of Fujis feats are against Dressrosa characters who are fodder (relatively speaking) to the god tiers.

 

[Kachon123]

iirc AP goes to Issho,

Based on?

Stamina is debatable

It's really not.

Btw, how does he have superior LS?

Issho LS > Dressrosa Luffy LS < Post-Udon Luffy LS < Queen LS < Exo Sanji LS