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Upgrade Yggdrasil/RKT/TWSAIS
- Thread starter Alonik
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Yggdrasil it's the manifestation of the Axis Mundi in the view of the asgardian people. They only have the knowledge about Nine;Ten realmes, but this it's just the top of the iceberg.
The truly Yggdrasil or the Axis Mundi itself, it's the found of creation itself, like i already proved
The truly Yggdrasil or the Axis Mundi itself, it's the found of creation itself, like i already proved
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I agree that per Al Ewing and other more recent stuff, the full Yggdrasil is Multiversal in size, yes.Alonik said:
What I don't agree is that this has always been the case in Marvel. It clearly hasn't.
Case in point: You are trying to use this sca to claim that Yggdrasil contains The Living Tribunal, simply because in the upper right corner of the page we can see a humorous chibi depiction of a Skrull Living Tribunal playing cards with The Watcher and Thanos].
It's clearly not meant to be taken literally nor seriously, it's just a funny way of depicting that Yggdrasil contains all things in the realms. That's it.
And yes, the realms. Because this scan says quite clearly at the beginning "The Tree of Yggdrasil holds all of the Nine Realms together". That's it. Nothing more. This particular page has no statements of the Tree encompassing "all of creation" / "all of existence" / "everything that exists" / "all of time and space" or whatever other statements that can be read in a variety of ways.
So unless you wanna tell me that The Living Tribunal is a Skrull-looking dude who is limited to the nine realms of Norse Mythology... Please.
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And yes, the realms. Because this scan says quite clearly at the beginning "The Tree of Yggdrasil holds all of the Nine Realms together". That's it. Nothing more. This particular page has no statements of the Tree encompassing "all of creation" / "all of existence" / "everything that exists" / "all of time and space" or whatever other statements that can be read in a variety of ways.
I never said this, I just talked about the LT in that scan, got dozens of other scans that I posted talking about "the Tree encompassing "all of creation" / "all of existence" / "everything that exists" / "all of time and space"
I still separated the topic from LT other than that, do not know how managed to intertwine two things I separated.
I never said this, I just talked about the LT in that scan, got dozens of other scans that I posted talking about "the Tree encompassing "all of creation" / "all of existence" / "everything that exists" / "all of time and space"
I still separated the topic from LT other than that, do not know how managed to intertwine two things I separated.
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You mean this Axis Mundi, right? The Cosmic Axis which holds up existence, correct?JhonyResh said:
Your supposed scans talking about the Axis Mundi are this, which not only don't talk about the Axis Mundi at all, but have f*ck all to do with each other. The first is when the Council of Godheads are trying to seal off the realm they're meeting in because it has portals that lead to all of their Divine Realms and Afterlives, and that if Mikaboshi gets there he'll attack the realms too. The second is WAY LATER in the story when the Chaos King has nearly consumed the multiverse. Are you seriously implying that a) The place where the Council of Godheads met was literally the Axis Mundi, which is a much more metaphysical place, and that the only thing the Chaos King was consume the Divine Realms of all the pantheons and that was enough to consume 97% of the multiverse?
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So unless you wanna tell me that The Living Tribunal is a Skrull-looking dude who is limited to the nine realms of Norse Mythology... Please.
This is not even necessary to use, after all The Living Tribunal was born inside Yggdrasil itself. As I proved in the argument, but this was not highlight;
The Living Tribunal which is the cosmic entity responsible for the balance and judgment of the Multiverse, was born from the expansion of the big bang that gave rise to the multiverse. It is repeatedly said that. Yggdrasil fits into the creation of all cosmic entities from the moment when all of the multiverse die "When the matter and energy of everything collapse inward before exploding forth and creating the next multiverse" and by recreating the multiverse, the world tree give life for the entities like Galactus, And the next Galactus and multiverse. This is a clear system where it says that Yggdrasil is responsible for making cyclically the ´Ultimates always reborn.
This is not even necessary to use, after all The Living Tribunal was born inside Yggdrasil itself. As I proved in the argument, but this was not highlight;
The Living Tribunal which is the cosmic entity responsible for the balance and judgment of the Multiverse, was born from the expansion of the big bang that gave rise to the multiverse. It is repeatedly said that. Yggdrasil fits into the creation of all cosmic entities from the moment when all of the multiverse die "When the matter and energy of everything collapse inward before exploding forth and creating the next multiverse" and by recreating the multiverse, the world tree give life for the entities like Galactus, And the next Galactus and multiverse. This is a clear system where it says that Yggdrasil is responsible for making cyclically the ´Ultimates always reborn.
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Also worth noting that the story which introduces the concept of the Axis Mundi establishes it as being the "Center of Global Power". They explain that the Island where Atlas was condemned to stay holding the Axis became Atlantis, which was the center of the world, and that after Atlantis sank the Axis stopped being there. Eons later, the Axis Mundi would be in the united states.
The villain of the same story wants to steal the power of the Axis Mundi to remake the world in her image or whatever, and she actually frees Atlas upon doing so.
Not only do the heavens not literally fall on anyone's head, but Atlas isn't portrayed as particularly cosmically powerful in the same issue where he's freed. And in the same story we see the effects that the Power of the Axis Mundi brings, and it only affects Earth, remaking it into a female supremacist utopia in the Amazon Villain's vision to be more specific.
So yeah. I'm calling BS on the Axis Mundi being literally the Axis of the Multiverse that contains all things including the literal Norse Yggdrasil.
It's just a metaphorical central axis of power on Earth.
The villain of the same story wants to steal the power of the Axis Mundi to remake the world in her image or whatever, and she actually frees Atlas upon doing so.
Not only do the heavens not literally fall on anyone's head, but Atlas isn't portrayed as particularly cosmically powerful in the same issue where he's freed. And in the same story we see the effects that the Power of the Axis Mundi brings, and it only affects Earth, remaking it into a female supremacist utopia in the Amazon Villain's vision to be more specific.
So yeah. I'm calling BS on the Axis Mundi being literally the Axis of the Multiverse that contains all things including the literal Norse Yggdrasil.
It's just a metaphorical central axis of power on Earth.
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When the whole Adam Warlock ordeal blew out, Eternity stated that The Fates must have been crazy to allow him to gain all that power, if I remember the line correctly. A few pages later, when Adam Warlock asks why they let it happen, Infinity clarifies that the decision was made on a level beyond the Living Tribunal's level.Antvasima said:
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I don't say that the place where the Gods are it's the Axis Mundi. The scan clearly say that they are procting the Found of Creation. And I don't say the Divine Realms are 99% of the Multiverse, i said Axis Mundi it's.Matthew Schroeder said:
Other, Amatsu Mikaboshi consumed all the existence after winning the battles againts the Gods and consumed the Found of Creation, that represent's 99%...
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Amatsu-Mikaboshi is already downplayed as is. His Low 1-A key scales above the Tribunal, and he should have a separate 1-A key that scales to no one, but I will deal with that later.
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1) Why do you link to profiles so often? It's weirdAlonik said:
2) Why the hell are you linking to the Marvel Website. We don't use it for feats or rules. Much like we prioritize the actual comics over marvel handbooks here.
3) Sure, this scan states that the Abstracts were formed with the birth of the universe. I agree with it. They are the universe so they're as old as the universe, makes sense. Same thing here, though... Oh, look. They include freaking Oblivion on the list of beings created by the birth of the "Universe". Which we know is fake. Likewise I really don't think the first scan is talking about the entire multiverse, just the 616 Universe and the Universal Abstracts.
4) In Either Case, what's the connection that these have to the World Tree on either scan? It's not mentioned at all. Bring me actual scans, not essays. Show me scans that speak for themselves. It's all I ask.
5 The fifth scan you send me is this, which has Odin talking about the circle of creation and destruction and how there will be a new Yggdrasil in the future. Makes sense, cause Ragnarok is cyclical in Marvel... But then we have the Seed of Yggdrasil and Galactus.
Excuse me, but isn't this storyline about a literal freaking seed that Galactus seeks to eat as a means to quench his hunger? And not a metaphorical seed from which all of the multiverse / omniverse is born? The later is never even remotely implied.
And are you seriously trying to use this scan as your proof that everything in the multiverse springs from Yggdrasil. Really?
What is supposed to be your ultimate argument in favor of Yggdrasil encompassing all of the Abstracts and the Living Tribunal says no such thing. You're just making shit up at this point.
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Based on the vague associations going on in this thread?Kepekley23 said:
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Based on the vague associations going on in this thread?
No, nothing to do with the proposed Low 1-A Yggdrasil shit.
Amatsu-Mikaboshi being equal to Eternity is an example of this wiki reading the comics with its asshole instead of its brain, happens from time to time. Eternity calls him an Anti-God because he absorbs people whenever he defeats them, and thus fighting him is the equivalent of fighting yourself. He is all of reality's antithesis. Considering he'd have become one with Oblivion once more after he consumed the multiverse, he should have a Void key where he is 1-A, and a normal key where he is Low 1-A via soloing the multiverse.
No, nothing to do with the proposed Low 1-A Yggdrasil shit.
Amatsu-Mikaboshi being equal to Eternity is an example of this wiki reading the comics with its asshole instead of its brain, happens from time to time. Eternity calls him an Anti-God because he absorbs people whenever he defeats them, and thus fighting him is the equivalent of fighting yourself. He is all of reality's antithesis. Considering he'd have become one with Oblivion once more after he consumed the multiverse, he should have a Void key where he is 1-A, and a normal key where he is Low 1-A via soloing the multiverse.
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The Living Tribunal never did **** all in the story, so scaling him to him just because "Oh, he eats the multiverse" is effing dumb.
Him being the Pre-Multivesal void is just... Redundant. That's Oblivion and the Chaos King is an Aspect of Oblivion who wants to return shit to Oblivion.
Him being the Pre-Multivesal void is just... Redundant. That's Oblivion and the Chaos King is an Aspect of Oblivion who wants to return shit to Oblivion.
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Didn't the Chaos King become more powerful then Eternity at the end of Chaos War? IIRC he fought a Gaea amped Hercules who the former stated was the true font of creation from which all gods stem from (the multiverse in context)
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Also, for clarity:
I am FINE with there being a True Yggdrasil that is the whole multiverse and which encompasses the entire multiverse.
And I'm also fine with Those Who Site Above being from the Outside, and Ginnungagap being the Void of Oblivion. Those are fairly logical conclusions.
What I'm not fine with is the assumption that Yggdrasil is bigger than the Omniverse (A word being tossed around here as if it means much) and the origin of all Abstracts.
I am FINE with there being a True Yggdrasil that is the whole multiverse and which encompasses the entire multiverse.
And I'm also fine with Those Who Site Above being from the Outside, and Ginnungagap being the Void of Oblivion. Those are fairly logical conclusions.
What I'm not fine with is the assumption that Yggdrasil is bigger than the Omniverse (A word being tossed around here as if it means much) and the origin of all Abstracts.
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Oblivion is way beyond baseline 1-A, so the CK being an aspect of Oblivion is irrelevant to whether the CK can be 1-A or not. Reality is shaped by dreams and beliefs in Marvel Comics, from the pantheon to pantheon. Nyx is an aspect of Oblivion, too, and she is 1-A in her Primal Form (when she was at the height of worship). Go figure.Matthew Schroeder said:
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@Matthew Schroeder
1) It's a custom I have.
2)I didn't know you guys didn't use it, it was something else to reinforce, since that's a statement that's inside lt's own handbook (Now, I don't think y'll used that either).
3)That's just the avatar of oblivion, not the real one. As we all know, oblivion has always existed before all things, even multiverse.
4)Up there I showed that Yggdrasil is the primary cause of the Multiverse. It's the same as saying that the "box" doesn't hold the product inside it.
5) You just agreed that Yggdrasil's seed creates the Multiverse, and entities are born from the creation of the multiverse.
1) It's a custom I have.
2)I didn't know you guys didn't use it, it was something else to reinforce, since that's a statement that's inside lt's own handbook (Now, I don't think y'll used that either).
3)That's just the avatar of oblivion, not the real one. As we all know, oblivion has always existed before all things, even multiverse.
4)Up there I showed that Yggdrasil is the primary cause of the Multiverse. It's the same as saying that the "box" doesn't hold the product inside it.
5) You just agreed that Yggdrasil's seed creates the Multiverse, and entities are born from the creation of the multiverse.
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I think Nxy being 1-A in her Primal Form it's because she's linked with the House of Idea, and have the power the House contains, and she has fighted against all Marvel HistoryKepekley23 said:
But Nxy it isn't the focus of this Blog, and she doesn't scale with this either. I think it's easier open another blog after this one finished, and then Upgrade Nxy to 1-A
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No, Nyx's Primal Form's power has nothing to do with the House of Ideas. The House merely restored her power to what it once was.
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> Oh, look. They include freaking Oblivion on the list of beings created by the birth of the "Universe". Which we know is fake.
The less-than-infinitesimal aspect of Oblivion who interacts with the rest of the Cosmic Compass and is under the Tribunal's jurisdiction can be easily said to be part of the Big Bang, too. What gives?
The less-than-infinitesimal aspect of Oblivion who interacts with the rest of the Cosmic Compass and is under the Tribunal's jurisdiction can be easily said to be part of the Big Bang, too. What gives?
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@Matthew Schroeder:"What I'm not fine with is the assumption that Yggdrasil is bigger than the Omniverse"
I didn't want to propose this, I wanted to propose that it is the omniverse/multiverse.
"and the origin of all Abstracts. "
whether it is omniverse (Multiverse) is a simple logic that it encompasses entities in the same way that Eternity encompasses by entities being born of the energy of the big bang and being functions of the multiverse.
And when I say that, I'm not talking about a root, I'm talking about the same Yggdrasil that you're being as well as being the Omniverse.
I didn't want to propose this, I wanted to propose that it is the omniverse/multiverse.
"and the origin of all Abstracts. "
whether it is omniverse (Multiverse) is a simple logic that it encompasses entities in the same way that Eternity encompasses by entities being born of the energy of the big bang and being functions of the multiverse.
And when I say that, I'm not talking about a root, I'm talking about the same Yggdrasil that you're being as well as being the Omniverse.
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The abstract Oblivion it's borning with the Big Bang, and he's under the Tribunal's Power. The same Abstract Oblivion it's who control the Darkforce dimension
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5) You just agreed that Yggdrasil's seed creates the Multiverse, and entities are born from the creation of the multiverse.
I literally didn't?
I literally didn't?
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Alright. Upon looking deeper into it, I think I have a few concerns about this upgrade, and they mostly center around the idea that Yggdrasil is actually a 1-A super structure with smaller manifeststions littered throughout the Marvel narrative. I should note before proceeding that I think context is really key here, and I might not be as critical of the idea were Yggdrasil not so consistently described as only having 9-10 universes. However, as I am more familiar with that depiction, it is possible that I am putting a larger demand for proof on those who would argue Yggdrasil as a 1-A structure. It is always hard to get a gauge on how your perspective influences your analysis, so I apologize in advance if things come across as overly rigerous. It is just important to me that enough evidence be provided to both dethrone this preexisting picture of Yggdrasil and replace it with this proposed picture that attempts to compromise the old 2-C structure with a 1-A structure that seems contradictory at first glance.
As I understand the situation, our above OP spends a lot of time verifying and reverifying very important things about Yggdrasil, like its ability to connect all life, how space and time flow through its roots, etc, but many of these quotes are insufficient on their own and only serve as supplimental justifications. Statements about an object "containing everything" or being "impossibly vast" are only of use if the surrounding dialogue clarifies that we are talking about infinite universes. Otherwise, common English vernacular suggests that they could be talking about anything from the 9 universes that traditionally make up Yggdrasil to a single universe. As such, these vaguer quotes are not usable, and I will instead only be focusing on what I think I have identified as the six primary pieces of evidence OP uses to suggest Yggdrasil is a 1-A super structure.
1. Yggdrasil encompasses The Living Tribunal- Tbh, I think this is the weakest argument on this thread. The evidence seems to draw almost entirely from this scene that shows The Living Tribunal hanging out with Thanos, The Watcher, and a few Celestials in one of the realms supported by Yggdrasil. That does not really tell us anything, imo, because The Living Tribunal is often depicted as existing in multiple realities simultaneously, as though its single multiversal body is present across infinite realities at once. Besides that point, it is also known to periodically hold council with abstracts across the multiverse, meaning it is often out of place. Showing that it is present in a realm Yggdrasil supports that houses abstracts does not prove Yggdrasil encompasses The Living Tribunal. It just shows that a slice of The Living Tribunal was in that abstract realm at one time. The use of this as evidence is even more baffling when you consider that the scan itself describes Yggdrasil as only having 9 realms . Even if the full tree is a 1-A super structure that encompasses The Living Tribunal, this is not a picture of that.
2. Ginnungagap is Oblivion- This argument seems to stem from Ginnungagap's description as the void before creation, but no correlation is ever drawn directly between it and the cosmic entity Oblivion to my knowledge. I don't think we can just connect similar concepts like this willy-nilly. As mentioned above, vague statements like "existing before everything" need to be qualified before we suggest it literally represents a 1-A void. Ginnungagap is a central part of the Norse mythology, and it's pretty unlikely that its appearance here was an intentional reference to Oblivio. It was probably just a reference to the Norse creation myth. There's also no evidence that this is where Those Who Sit Above In Shadow reside. We know that they sit in a dark place beyond reality, and we know that Thor understood the nature of their existence after receiving a wealth of knowledge from Yggdrasil, but there's nothing to indicate that he saw that they lived in Ginnungagap. In order for this logic to work, we have to first decide that (1) Ginnungagap is Oblivio and (2) that's where Those Who Sit Above In Shadow live. Those are both fan theories that just happen to imply Yggdrasil and Those Who Sit Above In Shadow are 1-A as a consequence. We cannot operate off of that.
3. Those Who Sit Above In Shadow exist in The Outside- We have absolutely no idea if that is true or not. It's true that Loki encountered them in The Outside after the universe ended, and they intended to feed on the god essence Loki had stolen, but that doesn't mean they are native to this area. It just means they escaped the destruction of the universe, like Loki did. Or that they are from some other realm. Or any number of things. I don't think we can scale off of this. It would be one thing if Loki dropped into The Outside and saw Those Who Sit Above In Shadow going about their daily business or something, but they were deliberately seeking him out here. There's nothing to indicate that this is their natural habitat, just that they were chasing Loki.
4. Erik Solvong claimed that the nine realms were only the tip of Yggdrasil- These scans actually looked pretty foolproof when I first read them, but upon reading the full storyline, I'm not so sure anymore. I'll grant that maybe it's ambiguous, but within the larger context, it looks like Erik is just saying "Yggdrasil's nine worlds are actually universes! And Yggdrasil is just the tip of the iceberg! There are infinite universes out there!" The entire plot of that storyline was about a race from a universe outside of Yggdrasil invading Yggdrasil and throwing the nine realms into chaos. Even Heimdall apparently couldn't see them until they invaded the local nine realms. This suggests that there are universes outside of Yggdrasil , and that is what Dr. Solvong was trying to warn them about. He was actually saying the exact opposite of what this scan seems to imply at first glance. He's telling them that Yggdrasil's realms are, in fact, universes, and there are far more than nine of them out there. Many exist beyond the Asgardians' narrow view of the multiverse.
5. Seth was going to wipe out infinite planes by destroying Yggdrasil- First, I should note that "plane" is being used as a stand in for "universe" in this context, as you can see here when Seth claims that destroying the Rainbow Road cut the Asgardians off from the "mortal plane" (i.e. the Earth universe). That being said, I don't think anything in this story ever indicated that the destruction of Yggdrasil would destroy infinite "planes." Yes, it's true that Seth at one point mentions that nobody "in any of the infinite planes" has ever assembled an army as large as his own, but that's just a boast about the size of his army. There is never any indication that infinite planes are actually in danger due to his attack on Yggdrasil.
6. Secret Wars claims Yggdrasil is the omniverse- This, I think, is your best argument, and it relies on two scenes. In the first one, we see a quote that says "This is the last incursion. The day of the last battle. The end of this universe-- the final death of the world tree." It certainly sounds like confirmation that the incursions have been slowly killing Yggdrasil, and this last one will finally do it in, but the problem I have is that it still doesn't seem to quite clarify if Yggdrasil encompasses the omniverse or not? I mean, logically speaking, if every other universe were destroyed, that would also include the other eight that traditionally make up the smaller model of Yggdrasil, wouldn't it? So this would be the end of The World Tree either way, no matter which interpretation is correct. The other scene attempts to connect Yggdrasil to the omniverse by calling back to this moment, in which Odin claimed that Yggdrasil is every story. So following that logic, we can deduce that Loki claiming stories will persist even after omniverse's Destruction implies Yggdrasil will persist after the omniverse's destruction, right? ...Well, I'm not so sure. There is a flaw with that line of thinking, primarily hidden within Odin's monologue about Yggdrasil. If you look closely, he says "There are ten realms in this reality-- ten spheres, ten universes, and the tree winds through them all. Through every star and planet, every hero and villain. Every life. Every story." It's quite a long statement, but he is clearly listing off things that exist withi the ten universes of Yggdrasil. He starts off by qualifying that these stars and planets in his explanation exist within the ten realms, so because of how the sentence is structured, it's logical to assume that the stories in his explanation exist within those ten realms as well. That doesn't imply that there are no stories outside of Yggdrasil, so stories persisting after the end of the omniverse doesn't say anything about Yggdrasil persisting after the end of the omniverse. At least, that's how I see it.
Sorry if this explanation was long-winded, but I think that covers my conclusion pretty thoroughly. I do not think the evidence presented is adequate for such a drastic upgrade, but that's just me, and even if some of my analysis is wrong, this post is still rather misleading in a few areas and uses very confident wording in places that are unwarranted. It could definitely use some clean up. I didn't even cover the misinformation irrelevant to my conclusion. For example, there's a section of the post that claims The Galactus Seed created the multiverse. There's just no evidence for that. Not only does the quote it references never mention the word "multiverse," but two stories that scene is directly attached to only describe the local Marvel universe's birth and death. Granted, in Thor's mythology, that's technically nine universes, but you get my point. Nothing at all suggests infinite universes were born from that seed. I'm up for being proven wrong on any of this stuff. It's really no skin off my nose if Rune King Thor is a 1-A monster. It would be kind of cool, actually. But I just don't think the evidence is there.
As I understand the situation, our above OP spends a lot of time verifying and reverifying very important things about Yggdrasil, like its ability to connect all life, how space and time flow through its roots, etc, but many of these quotes are insufficient on their own and only serve as supplimental justifications. Statements about an object "containing everything" or being "impossibly vast" are only of use if the surrounding dialogue clarifies that we are talking about infinite universes. Otherwise, common English vernacular suggests that they could be talking about anything from the 9 universes that traditionally make up Yggdrasil to a single universe. As such, these vaguer quotes are not usable, and I will instead only be focusing on what I think I have identified as the six primary pieces of evidence OP uses to suggest Yggdrasil is a 1-A super structure.
1. Yggdrasil encompasses The Living Tribunal- Tbh, I think this is the weakest argument on this thread. The evidence seems to draw almost entirely from this scene that shows The Living Tribunal hanging out with Thanos, The Watcher, and a few Celestials in one of the realms supported by Yggdrasil. That does not really tell us anything, imo, because The Living Tribunal is often depicted as existing in multiple realities simultaneously, as though its single multiversal body is present across infinite realities at once. Besides that point, it is also known to periodically hold council with abstracts across the multiverse, meaning it is often out of place. Showing that it is present in a realm Yggdrasil supports that houses abstracts does not prove Yggdrasil encompasses The Living Tribunal. It just shows that a slice of The Living Tribunal was in that abstract realm at one time. The use of this as evidence is even more baffling when you consider that the scan itself describes Yggdrasil as only having 9 realms . Even if the full tree is a 1-A super structure that encompasses The Living Tribunal, this is not a picture of that.
2. Ginnungagap is Oblivion- This argument seems to stem from Ginnungagap's description as the void before creation, but no correlation is ever drawn directly between it and the cosmic entity Oblivion to my knowledge. I don't think we can just connect similar concepts like this willy-nilly. As mentioned above, vague statements like "existing before everything" need to be qualified before we suggest it literally represents a 1-A void. Ginnungagap is a central part of the Norse mythology, and it's pretty unlikely that its appearance here was an intentional reference to Oblivio. It was probably just a reference to the Norse creation myth. There's also no evidence that this is where Those Who Sit Above In Shadow reside. We know that they sit in a dark place beyond reality, and we know that Thor understood the nature of their existence after receiving a wealth of knowledge from Yggdrasil, but there's nothing to indicate that he saw that they lived in Ginnungagap. In order for this logic to work, we have to first decide that (1) Ginnungagap is Oblivio and (2) that's where Those Who Sit Above In Shadow live. Those are both fan theories that just happen to imply Yggdrasil and Those Who Sit Above In Shadow are 1-A as a consequence. We cannot operate off of that.
3. Those Who Sit Above In Shadow exist in The Outside- We have absolutely no idea if that is true or not. It's true that Loki encountered them in The Outside after the universe ended, and they intended to feed on the god essence Loki had stolen, but that doesn't mean they are native to this area. It just means they escaped the destruction of the universe, like Loki did. Or that they are from some other realm. Or any number of things. I don't think we can scale off of this. It would be one thing if Loki dropped into The Outside and saw Those Who Sit Above In Shadow going about their daily business or something, but they were deliberately seeking him out here. There's nothing to indicate that this is their natural habitat, just that they were chasing Loki.
4. Erik Solvong claimed that the nine realms were only the tip of Yggdrasil- These scans actually looked pretty foolproof when I first read them, but upon reading the full storyline, I'm not so sure anymore. I'll grant that maybe it's ambiguous, but within the larger context, it looks like Erik is just saying "Yggdrasil's nine worlds are actually universes! And Yggdrasil is just the tip of the iceberg! There are infinite universes out there!" The entire plot of that storyline was about a race from a universe outside of Yggdrasil invading Yggdrasil and throwing the nine realms into chaos. Even Heimdall apparently couldn't see them until they invaded the local nine realms. This suggests that there are universes outside of Yggdrasil , and that is what Dr. Solvong was trying to warn them about. He was actually saying the exact opposite of what this scan seems to imply at first glance. He's telling them that Yggdrasil's realms are, in fact, universes, and there are far more than nine of them out there. Many exist beyond the Asgardians' narrow view of the multiverse.
5. Seth was going to wipe out infinite planes by destroying Yggdrasil- First, I should note that "plane" is being used as a stand in for "universe" in this context, as you can see here when Seth claims that destroying the Rainbow Road cut the Asgardians off from the "mortal plane" (i.e. the Earth universe). That being said, I don't think anything in this story ever indicated that the destruction of Yggdrasil would destroy infinite "planes." Yes, it's true that Seth at one point mentions that nobody "in any of the infinite planes" has ever assembled an army as large as his own, but that's just a boast about the size of his army. There is never any indication that infinite planes are actually in danger due to his attack on Yggdrasil.
6. Secret Wars claims Yggdrasil is the omniverse- This, I think, is your best argument, and it relies on two scenes. In the first one, we see a quote that says "This is the last incursion. The day of the last battle. The end of this universe-- the final death of the world tree." It certainly sounds like confirmation that the incursions have been slowly killing Yggdrasil, and this last one will finally do it in, but the problem I have is that it still doesn't seem to quite clarify if Yggdrasil encompasses the omniverse or not? I mean, logically speaking, if every other universe were destroyed, that would also include the other eight that traditionally make up the smaller model of Yggdrasil, wouldn't it? So this would be the end of The World Tree either way, no matter which interpretation is correct. The other scene attempts to connect Yggdrasil to the omniverse by calling back to this moment, in which Odin claimed that Yggdrasil is every story. So following that logic, we can deduce that Loki claiming stories will persist even after omniverse's Destruction implies Yggdrasil will persist after the omniverse's destruction, right? ...Well, I'm not so sure. There is a flaw with that line of thinking, primarily hidden within Odin's monologue about Yggdrasil. If you look closely, he says "There are ten realms in this reality-- ten spheres, ten universes, and the tree winds through them all. Through every star and planet, every hero and villain. Every life. Every story." It's quite a long statement, but he is clearly listing off things that exist withi the ten universes of Yggdrasil. He starts off by qualifying that these stars and planets in his explanation exist within the ten realms, so because of how the sentence is structured, it's logical to assume that the stories in his explanation exist within those ten realms as well. That doesn't imply that there are no stories outside of Yggdrasil, so stories persisting after the end of the omniverse doesn't say anything about Yggdrasil persisting after the end of the omniverse. At least, that's how I see it.
Sorry if this explanation was long-winded, but I think that covers my conclusion pretty thoroughly. I do not think the evidence presented is adequate for such a drastic upgrade, but that's just me, and even if some of my analysis is wrong, this post is still rather misleading in a few areas and uses very confident wording in places that are unwarranted. It could definitely use some clean up. I didn't even cover the misinformation irrelevant to my conclusion. For example, there's a section of the post that claims The Galactus Seed created the multiverse. There's just no evidence for that. Not only does the quote it references never mention the word "multiverse," but two stories that scene is directly attached to only describe the local Marvel universe's birth and death. Granted, in Thor's mythology, that's technically nine universes, but you get my point. Nothing at all suggests infinite universes were born from that seed. I'm up for being proven wrong on any of this stuff. It's really no skin off my nose if Rune King Thor is a 1-A monster. It would be kind of cool, actually. But I just don't think the evidence is there.
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I apologize that you had to spend that much time writing up a post just so we could tell you no one is trying to make Yggdrasil a solid 1-A, but well...we kinda have to.
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I think that the reason of Yggdrasil to be the multiverse is the fact that every system, be it divine or human, is encompassed by it.
Norn and Yggdrasil
Norns are the past, present and future , every story about the gods, as the ones about Thor, are made by them. Norns makes stories themselves bleed , and this is valid to all dimensions , even stories about the Celestials, Necro Loki (King Thor in the end of the Multiverse), IG, all of them were made by the Norns
The Fate Tapestry has the story of the multiverse, Yggdrasil touch every dimension, be if divine or mortal, in different forms , and in different worlds
The Divine Manifestation of the Firmament in different forms (Yggdrasil doesn't have only 9 realms, each divine realm is part of Yggdrasil in its true form) , Yggdrasil and the Axis are the same thing, each divine realm has a form of Yggdrasil or the Axis (The True Form of Yggdrasil), the Other World is a divine realm, the Celtic Realm, all have another forms of the Axis that link all the multiverse. The nine realms are only a fraction of Yggdrasil
You can see that others Asgardians and Gods in the multiverse are linked by Yggdrasil , exists parts of Yggdrasil that exists in the infinite beyond all worlds . The MacroSpace (An abstract world where the Living Tribunal lives is said to be a world of gods )
Norn and Yggdrasil
Norns are the past, present and future , every story about the gods, as the ones about Thor, are made by them. Norns makes stories themselves bleed , and this is valid to all dimensions , even stories about the Celestials, Necro Loki (King Thor in the end of the Multiverse), IG, all of them were made by the Norns
The Fate Tapestry has the story of the multiverse, Yggdrasil touch every dimension, be if divine or mortal, in different forms , and in different worlds
The Divine Manifestation of the Firmament in different forms (Yggdrasil doesn't have only 9 realms, each divine realm is part of Yggdrasil in its true form) , Yggdrasil and the Axis are the same thing, each divine realm has a form of Yggdrasil or the Axis (The True Form of Yggdrasil), the Other World is a divine realm, the Celtic Realm, all have another forms of the Axis that link all the multiverse. The nine realms are only a fraction of Yggdrasil
You can see that others Asgardians and Gods in the multiverse are linked by Yggdrasil , exists parts of Yggdrasil that exists in the infinite beyond all worlds . The MacroSpace (An abstract world where the Living Tribunal lives is said to be a world of gods )
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Frankly, I find it rude to dismiss my post as being entirely about 1-A Yggdrasil. It was quite clearly also a refutation of 1-A Rune King Thor, Those Who Sit Above In Shadow, and any version of Yggdrasil beyond 2-C. If you honestly feel bad about the time I took to write the post, then please read it and actually apply the conclusions it comes to instead of trying to shove it under the rug.
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Yeah, since I disagree with the entirety of your refutation and think Thor has plenty of a good basis for being 1-A regardless of whether the Yggdrasil is 1-A or Low 1-A, I'll respond. Just give me a sec.
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Damn. ClassicNESfan destroyed the OP.
I really had no idea about the context of Erik Solvong's scans. Thank you so much for providing us with them. Seems it was heavily out of context too.
I really had no idea about the context of Erik Solvong's scans. Thank you so much for providing us with them. Seems it was heavily out of context too.
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That would be significantly more constructive than posting a gif and acting like it addresses anything. Thank you.
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Yeah I think Classic makes the most sense here
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I was actually laughing at what he said, not at your post, though.ClassicNESfan said:
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Then why did you like his post?
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Meh, spur of the moment.
There - deleted that GIF if it's offensive.
There - deleted that GIF if it's offensive.
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