God of War Dimensional Downgrade Part 1(???): The Yggdrasil

[Lilixa]

This is in the cookbook scans and I don't have it. Planck must have these. I thought these were already written in the profile.

In fact, not only that, there was another statement that the branches extends infinitely. And this was somewhere else

Cookbook stated that RBR created due to network of branches of Yggdrasil existing while statement branches stretch infinitely came from GoW 2018 novel.

 

[RaveeCPN]

I think it's supposed to be this one.

 

[Georredannea15]

Cookbook stated that RBR created due to network of branches of Yggdrasil existing while statement branches stretch infinitely came from GoW 2018 novel.

Yes, that's right. We used both of them as support.

 

[TyphonEX]

Then let me tell you directly what DT said about RBR ;
It would be 5D. Whether it would be 5D in a Tiering System applicable (i.e. Low 1-C) way would be another point of debate. Is it important to some character if it is?
And also quote from page ;
In other words, two separate universes coexist in a four dimensional or even higher dimensional space, occupying different position along some additional dimensional axis. Therefore, in order to travel between such universes, the movement must be through the higher dimensional space between them.
What scales to Low 1-C is Yggdrasil. It is sufficient for Low 1-C that the branches of Yggdrasil completely cover the 5-dimensional space and extend infinitely throughout the area it covers. In fact, what matters is not necessarily that it is infinite, but only that that dimension/axis has a "universal" or "significant" sized

First of all, we have to be talking about universes for your reasoning based off of our standards to work. The problem is that the Nine Realms aren't universes by our standards. Second of all, it not only has to cover an entire 5-dimensional space and extend infinitely throughout that area, but that area itself has to extend infinitely along the 5th dimensional axis. Keep in mind that DT also said "Whether it would be 5D in a Tiering System applicable (i.e. Low 1-C) way would be another point of debate." You have not proven that either the RBR or Yggdrasil extend substantially along the 5th dimensional axis, and thus have not proven either structure to be Low 1-C.

However, our standards say that having a universal sized space and its own time in that space gives Low 2-C by default.

• Having multiple galaxies within it should qualify as a Multi-Galaxy sized pocket reality, but not enough to be a universe without more context or evidence.
• A realm having time that works somewhat differently is not enough to be considered a Universe as nonlinear time within a single universe exists. And the realm should still have a confirmed appropriate size to back it up.
• The Worlds being different bodies of space is not enough to consider them universes, as that does not quite prove they have different timelines. Especially if they are afterlives. Afterlives often are different bodies of space, but are generally condensed in the same timeline unless there's more proof otherwise.

The Nine Realms are not "universes" by our standards. The most support we have for the Nine Realms being universes is them containing galaxies, having different flows of time, and being different planes of existence. Conveniently, our page on "universes" happens to refute all 3 of those pieces of evidence supposedly proving that the Nine Realms are universes one after the other.

Cookbook stated that RBR created due to network of branches of Yggdrasil existing while statement branches stretch infinitely came from GoW 2018 novel.

So you're telling me we don't actually have any statements proving that the RBR extends substantially along all of its axes including the supposed 5th dimension?

What you said would be true if the tree were just a structure that extended infinitely in a 5-D space, but the branches completely cover the 5-D space and extend infinitely throughout the area it covers.

Here's the problem: completely covering a 5-D space is not Low 1-C if there is no proof that said 5-D space extends substantially in all of its dimensions.

 

[Hellformer]

Leaning to agree with the OP

 

[Georredannea15]

First of all, we have to be talking about universes for your reasoning based off of our standards to work. The problem is that the Nine Realms aren't universes by our standards. Second of all, it not only has to cover an entire 5-dimensional space and extend infinitely throughout that area, but that area itself has to extend infinitely along the 5th dimensional axis. Keep in mind that DT also said "Whether it would be 5D in a Tiering System applicable (i.e. Low 1-C) way would be another point of debate." You have not proven that either the RBR or Yggdrasil extend substantially along the 5th dimensional axis, and thus have not proven either structure to be Low 1-C.

Fully encompassing a 5-dimensional space, even scaling it by creating it, is basically equivalent to what you are saying. After 6 months of discussion, this is what the DT gave us the green light. In short, what you are saying is an arbitrary demand.

The reason why DT says that scaling to Low 1-C is a different matter is basically because at that time the cookbook scan was not yet available, because before the cookbook all we had was “a structure with branches extending infinitely in this 5-D space” but the cookbook gave us more than that.

The Nine Realms are not "universes" by our standards. The most support we have for the Nine Realms being universes is them containing galaxies, having different flows of time, and being different planes of existence. Conveniently, our page on "universes" happens to refute all 3 of those pieces of evidence supposedly proving that the Nine Realms are universes one after the other.

Thanks for the summary, yes each of the realms has its own space with multiple stars and galaxies, but also each realms has its own time flow, which means different space-time continuums and it's textbook of a Low 2-C structure. Also, our page supports these statements very well

So you're telling me we don't actually have any statements proving that the RBR extends substantially along all of its axes including the supposed 5th dimension?

What scales is Yggdrasil. Yggdrasil is what stretches infinitely there and that's basically what we discussed in the original thread, that's what DT wanted...

Here's the problem: completely covering a 5-D space is not Low 1-C if there is no proof that said 5-D space extends substantially in all of its dimensions.

I guess you still don't get it, branches completely cover 5-dimensional space, but not only that, the branches also extends infinitely throughout the space it covers.

Nobody saying “ahhh, it's Low 1-C because it covers 5-dimensional space”.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

The Nine Realms are not "universes" by our standards. The most support we have for the Nine Realms being universes is them containing galaxies, having different flows of time, and being different planes of existence. Conveniently, our page on "universes" happens to refute all 3 of those pieces of evidence supposedly proving that the Nine Realms are universes one after the other.

I have no horse in this race, but the page says that those qualities may not qualify for being a universe on their own, but they do say that they can be supporting evidence (and can likely qualify in-conjunction with each other depending on the circumstances).

Universe

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[TyphonEX]

Fully encompassing a 5-dimensional space, even scaling it by creating it, is basically equivalent to what you are saying. After 6 months of discussion, this is what the DT gave us the green light. In short, what you are saying is an arbitrary demand.

No it f*cking isnt. Fully encompassing a 5 dimensional space is not the same as extending substantially along the 5th dimensional axis. If something fully encompasses a 5 dimensional space that itself does not extend substantially along the 5th dimensional axis (such as the RBR), that thing will not extend substantially along the 5th dimensional axis either. Prove me wrong.

Thanks for the summary, yes each of the realms has its own space with multiple stars and galaxies, but also each realms has its own time flow, which means different space-time continuums and it's textbook of a Low 2-C structure.

Nope. Our standards quite clearly say, "A realm having time that works somewhat differently is not enough to be considered a Universe as nonlinear time within a single universe exists". There is no proof that they are universes by our standards.

but not only that, the branches also extends infinitely throughout the space it covers.

Prove that extending infinitely throughout a 5D space is Low 1-C. DontTalkDT made it quite clear that structures can extend infinitely through 5D space while still having a volume of 0. Even a 5D space that extends infinitely would have a 5D volume of 0 if it doesnt substantially extend along the 5th dimensional axis, which you have not proven.

After 6 months of discussion, this is what the DT gave us the green light.

Nope. DT didnt accept jack sh*t. The ones who accepted the revisions were other staff members who ignored DT's objections to even the RBR being Low 1-C. DT wasnt even in the Yggdrasil upgrade thread at all.

The reason why DT says that scaling to Low 1-C is a different matter is basically because at that time the cookbook scan was not yet available, because before the cookbook all we had was “a structure with branches extending infinitely in this 5-D space” but the cookbook gave us more than that.

Are you admitting that "a structure with branches extending infinitely in this 5-D space" is not enough to justify Low 1-C? Well, it just so happens to be the case that the cookbook doesnt actually say anything new other than confirm the fact that the Yggdrasil manifested the RBR. This is literally the only cookbook quote cited by Planck, and it doesnt prove Low 1-C at all. So the cookbook doesnt actually change anything.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Nope. Our standards quite clearly say, "A realm having time that works somewhat differently is not enough to be considered a Universe as nonlinear time within a single universe exists". There is no proof that they are universes by our standards.

The page also says that

These statements are not enough to call them universes; they may support the ideas when backed up by examples above, but none of them individually or altogether may be enough.

Several things I have listed below are, according to the page, qualifiers to be universe. Whether or not God of War has this, I don't know (I'm not a supporter, I just ended up here), but I wanted to clarify this to you.

• If they are outright stated to be completely separated by the barriers of time and space and either stated or shown to be reasonable in size, such as having countless galaxies, then they should indeed be universes.
• If they're flat out stated to be entire timelines, then they are indeed alternate universes.
• Being labeled as "Entire Alternate Realities" generally indicates them being called universes, but the context and semantics should preferably be specified.
• If they're stated to mirror "The Universe" or "Our Universe" or "The Real World", they would refer to being universes.
• If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

Universe

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Georredannea15]

No it f*cking isnt. Fully encompassing a 5 dimensional space is not the same as extending substantially along the 5th dimensional axis. If something fully encompasses a 5 dimensional space that itself does not extend substantially along the 5th dimensional axis, that thing will not extend substantially along the 5th dimensional axis either. Prove me wrong.

No one is claiming that the branches are Low 1-C just because they cover 5-dimensional space.

The branches completely encompass the 5-dimensional space, in short, the space with the 5th axis (and at this point the 5th dimension and the 5th axis are exactly the same thing) completely covered by the Yggdrasil's branches. But not only do they encompass, as quoted above, the branches also extends infinitely here.

Nope. Our standards quite clearly say, "A realm having time that works somewhat differently is not enough to be considered a Universe as nonlinear time within a single universe exists". There is no proof that they are universes by our standards.

You continue to ignore many things.

Realms don't just have it's own time flow, they all have their own space and each space contains multiple stars and galaxies, and that's Low 2-C. You are forcing me to quote again what I have already quoted. But again...

• If they are outright stated to be completely separated by the barriers of time and space and either stated or shown to be reasonable in size, such as having countless galaxies, then they should indeed be universes.

Prove that extending infinitely throughout a 5D space is Low 1-C. DontTalkDT made it quite clear that structures can extend infinitely through 5D space while still having a volume of 0. Even a 5D space that extends infinitely would have a 5D volume of 0 if it doesnt substantially extend along the 5th dimensional axis, which you have not proven.

Nobody claimed that “the branches are an infinite structure extending in 5-dimensional space” because DT told us that “we could basically be a tier 2 multiverse extending infinitely inside a 5-dimensional space but occupying only the 4th axis”.

What you are still confusing is that Yggdrasil does not extends infinitely in 5D space. Yggdrasil completely occupies the RBR with its 5-dimensional axis, even just Yggdrasil's branches alone, completely covering it. But not only that, it also extends infinitely in the area it covers 5-dimensional axis/space.

In short, being a 4-D structure that extends infinitely within 5-D axis =/= Covering the 5-D axis completely and extending infinitely throughout the area it covers.

Now please do not tire me any further, read what I wrote more carefully and examine the standards better. If you complain about "this space is 5-dimensional" or "it covers 5-dimensional axis and it's Low 1-C because it's extend infinitely throughout the area it's completely cover" or "these criteria give you Low 2-C", then go change the standards or give us examples from a few verses , so we can know what you know.

I will refrain from answering you further unless you repeat the same things and make us repeat them.

 

[TyphonEX]

Several things I have listed below are, according to the page, qualifiers to be universe. Whether or not God of War has this, I don't know (I'm not a supporter, I just ended up here), but I wanted to clarify this to you.

The page also says "but none of them individually or altogether may be enough." The problem is that the Nine Realms do not have any of the real qualifiers at all. The cosmology page's description of the Nine Realms is here. Notably, none of the qualifiers for a universe are shown. The Nine Realms are not "universes" by our standards.

 

[TyphonEX]

In short, being a 4-D structure that extends infinitely within 5-D axis =/= Covering the 5-D axis completely and extending infinitely throughout the area it covers.

Since when does the Yggdrasil cover the 5-D axis completely? You're just making sh*t up at this point. The RBR doesnt even have a full 5th dimensional axis.

If they are outright stated to be completely separated by the barriers of time and space and either stated or shown to be reasonable in size, such as having countless galaxies, then they should indeed be universes.

Do you genuinely not understand what "and" statements are? One of the Nine Realms needs to not only have countless galaxies (which it doesn't, it only has multiple galaxies), but ALSO be "completely separated by the barriers of time and space." The latter has not been proven for the Nine Realms in God of War

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah, not seeing anything from the OP that's convincing me, disagree FRA.

 

[TyphonEX]

Yeah, not seeing anything from the OP that's convincing me, disagree FRA.

No need for you to repeat that. Your vote doesnt count anyways.

 

[Georredannea15]

Since when does the Yggdrasil cover the 5-D axis completely? You're just making sh*t up at this point.

Since Yggdrasil completely covering the 5-dimensional space itself = completely covering the 5th axis itself. So what? Did you really think that the 5th axis was something different from the 5th dimension? What we call the "5th axis" is what makes that space 5-dimensional.

Do you genuinely not understand what "and" statements are? One of the Nine Realms needs to not only have countless galaxies (which it doesn't, it only has multiple galaxies), but ALSO be "completely separated by the barriers of time and space." The latter has not been proven for the Nine Realms in God of War

Like I said, I won't answer as long as you keep repeating the same things

 

[TyphonEX]

Since Yggdrasil completely covering the 5-dimensional space = completely covering the 5th axis. So what? Did you really think that the 5th axis was something different from the 5th dimension?

Yeah, it's quite different actually. The 5th dimensional axis is infinitely long. Meanwhile theres not proof that the "5 dimensional space" in question, the RBR covers any more than an insignificant portion of that axis. In other words, the RBR is not a "full" 5th dimensional space. At most it is a compact 5th dimensional space, which is why DT questioned its eligibility for Low 1-C.

Like I said, I won't answer as long as you keep repeating the same things

Good God, you really dont understand what an "and" statement is, do you? You really do think that that quote proves the Nine Realms are universes even though the Nine Realms absolutely are not "completely separated by the barriers of time and space". God forbid you ever get into programming.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

The page also says "but none of them individually or altogether may be enough." The problem is that the Nine Realms do not have any of the real qualifiers at all. The cosmology page's description of the Nine Realms is here. Notably, none of the qualifiers for a universe are shown. The Nine Realms are not "universes" by our standards.

Notice the words "may be" in there. If there's sufficient reason to believe so, a combination of pieces of evidence that may not individually qualify as suffficient proof of universal size, can qualify for the standards together, especially when paired with some of the more concrete description the page also provides.

Whether or not God of War qualifies, I don't know, but from the little bit of the thread I skimmed, there may be enough. But again, that's not up to me.

 

[Abscoolguy]

Leaning towards OP but following

 

[Georredannea15]

Yeah, it's quite different actually. The 5th dimensional axis is infinitely long. Meanwhile theres not proof that the "5 dimensional space" in question, the RBR covers any more than an insignificant portion of that axis. In other words, the RBR is not a "full" 5th dimensional space. At most it is a compact 5th dimensional space, which is why DT questioned its eligibility for Low 1-C.

The two are exactly the same. What we call the "5th axis" is already the extra angle of motion that intersects perpendicular to the other 4 axes, and if your space has this, this space is 5-dimensional. Completely covering the 5-dimensional space means that you will necessarily cover this axis of motion as well.

What DT was talking about here was whether this 5th dimensional axis was significant or infinite sized for scaling. I already quoted this in my first comment

Good God, you really dont understand what an "and" statement is, do you? You really do think that that quote proves the Nine Realms are universes even though the Nine Realms absolutely are not "completely separated by the barriers of time and space". God forbid you ever get into programming.

I would basically prefer not to have any further conversations with someone who says that the 5th axis and the 5th spatial dimension are different things but anyway...

Lmao it has been shown that these are different from each other, so travel from realm to another realm is not possible except through RBR and Yggdrasil and few special abilities (Odin's teleport and bifrost)

 

[TyphonEX]

Completely covering the 5-dimensional space means that you will necessarily cover this axis of motion as well.

No it does not. Completely covering the 5D space only means that you cover the PORTION of the 5th dimensional axis that the 5D space covers. If you cover a 5D space and said 5D space only covers a non-substantial portion of the 5th axis,

What DT was talking about here was whether this 5th dimensional axis was significant or infinite sized for scaling. I already quoted this in my first comment

And it is not. Thus, the Yggdrasil cannot be scaled to Low 1-C.

Lmao it has been shown that these are different from each other, so travel from realm to another realm is not possible except through RBR and Yggdrasil and few special abilities (Odin's teleport and bifrost)

That is not proof that the Nine Realms are "completely separated by the barriers of time and space." Realm travel is only limited because Odin sealed travel between realms. That's it. Theres nothing more to it.

 

[Theglassman12]

Given that this has been universally rejected by staff members and grace period is over, I'll close the thread.