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Undertale downgrades

@Sean The stats in the game files are non cannon gameplay mechanics. The gaster stats are there as an obvious troll.

Also asriel wouldn't scale above gaster if this were true as he would have lower stats in the game files. You are just contradicting yourself and leading this discussion nowhere.
 
I totally agree with this


Also could someone change asriel/flowey speed to infinite along with chara and frisk

Because that seems more reasonable than immeasurable
 
@Foo Feedback but if Frisk is that fast, how fast would Sans have to be to constantly dodge her(lol) speeds?
 
We dont know, we cant figure it out without calc stacking.
 
Read this post said:
They were downgraded to unknown. But I plan to upgrade asriel and chara to infinite later. Flowey im unsure about.
Click to expand...
I'll assume that Chara gets her infinite speed form being able to exist after the game is destroyed. Asriel would likely also have it since he would be able to exist and think after he performed his feat. Would Full Determination Frisk scale to Asriel or am I misinterpreting it somehow?
 
ElixirBlue said:
@Foo Feedback but if Frisk is that fast, how fast would Sans have to be to constantly dodge her(lol) speeds?
Click to expand...
By the Frisk he fights not being anywhere near Frisk's peak.
 
So far floweys scaling has been pretty much debunked and accepted. The problem is whether base asriel scales. For those viewing, what are your current thoughts on asriels scaling?

Asriel doesnt scale to chara or her tier at all: 2 (Risci (Agrees to two options), Andytrenom)

Asriel does not scale to chara or her tier in base. But his final form does: 3 (Read this post, Planck69, Risci (Agrees to two options))

Asriel scales to chara/her tier in both forms: 1 (The real cal howard)

Neutral:
 
I'll concede to only Angel of Death Asriel scaling to Chara in tier. Though I'm confused as to what tier Base Asriel would be. Could someone please elaborate?
 
I'm fine with both second and first option. To be honest, I feel like his form was just for theatrics and simply holding back instead of being unable to unleash his full power.
 
Planck69 said:
I'll concede to only Angel of Death Asriel scaling to Chara in tier. Though I'm confused as to what tier Base Asriel would be. Could someone please elaborate?
Click to expand...
Base asriel would scale above photoshop flowey.

@Ricsi I suppose it can be treat as a supressed form, yes. Though it depends on how much he is supressing his power, which isnt really shown. We do have keys for other characters such as Jiren, who have a form where they are holding back.
 
Read this post said:
@Sean The stats in the game files are non cannon gameplay mechanics. The gaster stats are there as an obvious troll.
Click to expand...
"Obvious troll"

They're actually not game file stats, they're the STATs before the update in 2016 where Toby revamped how the STATs worked and made them consistent.

(Gaster's has remained unchanged since)
 
Unoriginal Memes said:
The entire reason his tier is Unkown is because he has no feats whatsoever, and the STATs are questionable considering he's done literally nothing to note.
Click to expand...
It's actually because people kept insisting "We don't technically know how strong he is!" no matter how many feats we used.
 
I mean flowey does not scale to chara, flowey took control of one timeline, chara destoyed the entire timeline and left it as a void of nothing.
 
I agree with the low-godly regen, immortalitys, abstract existence, and asriel does not scale to chara, asriel was going to erase the timeline, chara destroyed the entire timeline.
 
Unoriginal Memes said:
Chara destroyed the enrirety of Undertale, which consists of more than one timeline.
Click to expand...
I think that's what he meant? He said asriel destroyed the timeline and chara the entire timeline, implying there's a difference. I think he just worded it wrongly is all.
 
That i'm Not sure. Only because Photoshop Flowey is different than Asriel and Chara. As Asriel is the only being of the Pacifist route and Chara is the only being of the genocide route that can do that.

But PhotoShop Flowey is a bit unfortunate (or maybe fortunate) for being the final boss of the neutral route.

As Pacifist has one timeline and the Genocide has one timeline, the Neutral route has multiple endings (timelines). Multiple Photoshop Flowey's, as a result.
 
Yes, but we are in the Undertale downgrades thread. The existing profile should not be taken as complete fact here since we are trying see if they need to update them.

20 Neutral timelines to 1 Pacifist timelines (with 2 different endings) and 1 Genocide timeline.

20 versions of Photoshop Flowery. I don't know what that means but I found that interesting.

Flowey doesn't scale to Chara. Flowey was defeated by Frisk while Chara defeated the Player with a slash and took Frisk's soul (after the Player handed it over for a True Reset). The Player was at Chara's mercy to reset the game while Frisk was not at Flowey's mercy, beating Flowey and taking the ability to Reset away from Flowey.

The Player could not do anything against Chara, as they/she went through the Pacifist route again and Chara murdered everyone after they got to the surface.
 
Can somebody experienced write an easy to understand summary of your conclusions so far here, and the reasons for them? If you do, I or other staff members may be able to help.
 
Okay.

Photoshop Flowey is going to be downgraded to Low 2-C because the scaling makes no sense on why he scales to Chara, and the levels are just game mechanics. After all, he was defeated by The Player, who would get defeated by Chara in the end of the genocide route. And the fact where Photoshop Flowey creates multiple timelines via save states does NOT warrent 2-C because he is creating them one at a time, warrenting that for Low 2-C more.

This pretty much affects Base Asriel as well, as he is downgraded to Low 2-C because nothing states that he is scaled to Chara (exept for his AoHD form only because he was erasing the world of Undertale, which contains timelines dependent on the saves created), so being superior to Photoshop Flowey infinitely will result in Low 2-C because infinity universe*infinity universe=still infinity universe. It also makes sense of Asriel being Low 2-C because he DID state that he would purge (destroy) this timeline.

Angel of Hyperdeath Asriel is 2-C, likely 2-B due to the fact he preformed the same feat as Chara: Erase the world of Undertale (aka a true reset), which contains multiple timelines dependent on how many saves are made in the run.
 
Okay. I will unlock them for you later. Let's wait for some staff input first though.
 
Well. Not all the staff are completely certain on the downgrades. However the thing we are certain on is flowey not scaling, which can only be downgraded depending on how asriel scales. It wouldnt be unsafe to downgrade base asriel however as he hasnt been given much evidence to support his scaling that hasnt been refuted.

Angel death is debateable though his scaling is technically already accepted in a way due to the true reset (which he was performing) being currently considered by our profiles to act the same as charas game ending feat at least ap wise. Which is why i dont see it unsafe to downgrade the profiles at least for the time being.

As of right now i am on break and am online for very breif periods occasionally. But once my time is up, im planning to get an information blog arranged which should cover pracitcally the entire verse. Though this may take a while. You can wait till then if you want. Although i wouldnt want to delay revisions, rather than throw out at least some of the scaling accepted as faulty.
 
Honestly speaking, I think the True Reset scaling to Chara's feat should change

Literally, where did this idea even come from? The True reset is Time Reversal distinct from a regular reset in that it also wipes the characters' memories, while Chara's feat is a physical attack that leaves behind nothing but a black void, they aren't similar in the slightest

The True Reset is also not established to affect multiple timelines since Flowey only talked about how it will rip away monsters from the current timeline, and the only thing implying a higher level of range is the Anomaly being stated to "erase everything" which is too vague in and of itself

Here's the scene for context
 
Blog will go over the entire save and load system. Including the true reset. The true reset thing would probably be a whole new revision since it affects most of our understanding of the verse. However simply due to the fact that our profiles and standards for the verse currently accept the true reset as being this level, i dont see it as unsafe to make the change for the time being so the rest be revised at a later date.

Unless you would rather wait a month or two. The profiles will all be hakai warped then anyway.
 
I am fine with if you revise them as soon as possible. I would just prefer if a few other staff members weigh in.
 
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