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Undertale: Other minor fixes and additions

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I think this will be the last Undertale CRT I'll make here after a really long series I made from almost 2 years here, as otherwise the verse is pretty much covered from what I can see.

Sans' LS Downgrade

Sorry guys, but after checking a bit, Sans having Class M is completely faulty for a very simple reason.

If we go in the Monster Physiology page, we see this:
Heck we even see this on Sans' profile:
Sans just couldn't have used it against Flowey because the latter is explicitly soulless, and status effects in Undertale are all SOUL-based (hence why Undyne even says that we become Green, because our SOUL is), and given that the fights between Sans and Flowey are all off-screen, we just can't assume that Sans' Magic just has worked on Flowey for no reason at all. He isn't Asgore who has at least some reason to be physically that strong.

AKA take out Class M, and downgrade Sans' Magic to just Class 10.

Ice Cap creating ice

Just this neat 9-A feat (0.081 Tons, which is the strongest 9-A feat of the whole verse, mind you) that is added because of it being on hold-on for over a year. This is all.

Yes, if you do wonder, Magic does indeed scale to physicals, as we literally have this on Monster Physiology page:
This is shown in the Aaron fight, where he not only physically attacks with his muscles, but also attacks with his sweat in the turn after, which is confirmed from the flavor text that Aaron is literally sweating bullets.

So yeah... Magic is indeed comparable to physical AP here.

Flowey's stamina

On his profile his stamina is just...

Stamina: Unknown

Like guys, come on. This is just silly. Thankfully I've got y'all covered. I'll make an explanation based on his keys:

Kid: Unknown (leave it like that, we don't know much about that form, so it's better to avoid assumptions)

SOUL Absorbed: Superhuman (As a monster with the power of a Human SOUL, he should be at least comparable, if not above the likes of Undyne and Asgore)

Flowey: Unknown, likely Superhuman (While little is known about how Flowey fights in his base form, it should be noted that he made multiple journeys through the whole of the Underground, as showcased from the fact that he could obtain all the possible knownledge that is possible to obtain there through the usage of RESETs, thus making him likely comparable to Frisk who also can do the same).

Photoshop Flowey: Superhuman (Immensely superior to any his previous forms. Planned to toy and torture Frisk in the fight against them, going even as far as using SAVE and LOAD in order to kill them over and over without an end)

God of Hyperdeath: Superhuman (As a being with the power of 7 Human SOULs, he should be at least comparable to, if not far above his Photoshop Flowey self)

(Also shouldn't Kid Asriel have at least the same LS as Chara? Would be pretty weird if Chara could just... supplex him without an effort or something when they were kids)

Mettaton's Durability Negation

So we have Mettaton being capable of always cutting in half your HP, and from how the Wiki says it, the HP/armor you have does not matter. Sounds clear-cut Dura neg to me.

Amalgamates downgrades

I forgot about them. Basically, them scaling to their components is super wrong, as Reaper Bird has only 9 ATK, and Snowdrake's Mother is literally with negative statistics, which makes sense, as Amalgamates are a melting, decaying mess of Monsters that cannot control themselves anymore.

What does it mean? That at best we make them only "At most 8-B" due to still ""functioning"" Amalgamates (aka anyone who isn't Snowdrake's Mother) being all in the same ballpark (Memoryhead's 10 ATK and Reaper Bird's 9 ATK)

Also they all should have a durability, Invulnerability isn't a reason to just pretend it does not exist, as Reaper Bird and Snowdrake's Mother do have a DEF stat (plus Undertale makes it clear if a character's durability is unconventional if Frisk can't damage the opponent for reasons unrelated to their durability [Mad Dummy being incoreporeal, thus immune to Frisk's attacks for example]).

What does it mean?
Their speed should all be "Unknown, likely Subsonic+", as their ATK is still the same as Snowdin monsters, thus it's likely they still have their speed, though given their status as an Amalgamate, such damaged bodies makes it a bit doubtful.

Snowdrake's Mother will still have Unknown speed. She has problem even moving, and her attacks are pretty slow too.

UPDATE: 9-B Downgrade

A new thing that came up is a downgrade to the 9-B characters, as the original calc as the issue of using a PSI which is too high, so I made a calc that ends up being 2.681 Megajoules, which is still 9-B, but 2.5 times lower.

Doesn't affect too much scaling-wise.
 
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Disagee with Class M removal, unless you want to make Sans' TK specifically soul based TK if so you would need to add that to the OP
 
No? His TK should be [[Soul Manipulation|Soul]] [[Telekinesis]]. Allowing Sans to ignore some TK resistances and weight, while making it useless against people without a soul.
 
No? His TK should be [[Soul Manipulation|Soul]] [[Telekinesis]].
It's literally said in his justification that's SOUL based... did you forget the read the text between brackets?
Allowing Sans to ignore some TK resistances and weight, while making it useless against people without a soul.
I thought that was already accepted...? No because that's what the justifications say. If people didn't know about what was already accepted then it's their fault, not mine.
 
Agree with everything, tested out Mettaton and yeah it's just true damage so it should count for dura neg.
 
yeah i agree with all of this, only part i'd say i disagree with is the minor part about kid asriel LS to chara, like, we never see them fighting or doing anything in that form and i don't recall any implications that they were physically comparable, so i don't see why that matters lol, they could one shot asriel for all we know and it wouldn't really change anything since as far as i recall they never fought as kids like that, or had a arm wrestling match
 
This should be fine
Amalgamates downgrades

I forgot about them. Basically, them scaling to their components is super wrong, as Reaper Bird has only 9 ATK, and Snowdrake's Mother is literally with negative statistics, which makes sense, as Amalgamates are a melting, decaying mess of Monsters that cannot control themselves anymore.

What does it mean? That at best we make them only "At most 8-B" due to still ""functioning"" Amalgamates (aka anyone who isn't Snowdrake's Mother) being all in the same ballpark (Memoryhead's 10 ATK and Reaper Bird's 9 ATK)

Also they all should have a durability, Invulnerability isn't a reason to just pretend it does not exist, as Reaper Bird and Snowdrake's Mother do have a DEF stat (plus Undertale makes it clear if a character's durability is unconventional if Frisk can't damage the opponent for reasons unrelated to their durability [Mad Dummy being incoreporeal, thus immune to Frisk's attacks for example]).

What does it mean?
Their speed should all be "Unknown, likely Subsonic+", as their ATK is still the same as Snowdin monsters, thus it's likely they still have their speed, though their status as an Amalgamate, with such damaged bodies makes it a bit doubtful.

Snowdrake's Mother will still have Unknown speed. She has problem even moving, and her attacks are pretty slow too.
Added also this, as I forgot to cover them. Thoughts?
 
I agree with all the revision proposals, but I would like a clarification for one.
Mettaton's Durability Negation

So we have Mettaton being capable of always cutting in half your HP, and from how the Wiki says it, the HP/armor you have does not matter. Sounds clear-cut Dura neg to me.
Couldn't this just be a product of electricity, rather than a separate ability to negate durability? An electric shock would realistically circumvent armor. Maybe you could make the argument that Vulkin's lightning doesn't have this property, which I assume is true. As for the HP not mattering, this refers to how Mettaton's damage during the quiz show changes relative to how much HP Frisk has to always half it, so this could be Mettaton controlling the intensity of the electricity specifically to give Frisk one chance at failure.
 
I agree with all the revision proposals, but I would like a clarification for one.

Couldn't this just be a product of electricity, rather than a separate ability to negate durability? An electric shock would realistically circumvent armor. Maybe you could make the argument that Vulkin's lightning doesn't have this property, which I assume is true. As for the HP not mattering, this refers to how Mettaton's damage during the quiz show changes relative to how much HP Frisk has to always half it, so this could be Mettaton controlling the intensity of the electricity specifically to give Frisk one chance at failure.
I think this makes more assumptions then just saying he has dura neg and moving on. Even if you hack 100 DEF to yourself by editing the save files it does the same amount of damage no matter what, it’s just true damage.
 
I think this makes more assumptions then just saying he has dura neg and moving on. Even if you hack 100 DEF to yourself by editing the save files it does the same amount of damage no matter what, it’s just true damage.
I'm not convinced that Mettaton's damage changing relative to how much HP the target has is its own durability negation ability beyond the inherent durability negation properties that electricity has. How is the idea that the attack's strength varies more of an assumption than the idea that it does "true" damage?
 
I'm not convinced that Mettaton's damage changing relative to how much HP the target has is its own durability negation ability beyond the inherent durability negation properties that electricity has. How is the idea that the attack's strength varies more of an assumption than the idea that it does "true" damage?
True damage is just a term for games that means the amount of damage is fixed and never changes, no matter what, no matter if your DEF is in the negatives or up to the hundreds, Mettaton's attack is always fixed to do 50% of your health no matter what you do. Besides, isn't Frisk already listed as having resistance to Electricity Manipulation? This should be fine to just give him the Durability Negation.
 
True damage is just a term for games that means the amount of damage is fixed and never changes, no matter what, no matter if your DEF is in the negatives or up to the hundreds, Mettaton's attack is always fixed to do 50% of your health no matter what you do. Besides, isn't Frisk already listed as having resistance to Electricity Manipulation? This should be fine to just give him the Durability Negation.
I suppose it's fine when looking at it from that angle. Thanks for the elaboration.
 
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