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Also im not sure if starter pack was even trying to scale flowey to chara
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Undertale downgrades
- Thread starter Ricsi-viragosi
- Start date
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Alternately, by using SAVE on the souls within Asriel, he got just weak enough where Frisk could actually tank his final blast. It's fairly obvious that Frisk weakened Asriel greatly by giving him emotions that held him back. Yes, I admit that Frisk's DT was what allowed them to tank the blast for the most part, Asriel becoming weakened is still a factor in this.
Also, Frisk didn't have SAVE as an option before Asriel drained them of basically everything. They basically just willpowered one into existence.
Photoshop Flowey never lost the control over SAVE and LOAD though. Frisk used ACT to reach out to the human souls.
@Read
Yeah, I never once said Flowey scales to Chara. Don't know where that came from.
Also, Frisk didn't have SAVE as an option before Asriel drained them of basically everything. They basically just willpowered one into existence.
Photoshop Flowey never lost the control over SAVE and LOAD though. Frisk used ACT to reach out to the human souls.
@Read
Yeah, I never once said Flowey scales to Chara. Don't know where that came from.
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It never mentioned anything about Asriel becoming weaker in the fight, the people that Frisk had SAVEd were still absorbed.
I said the second time Photoshop Flowey showed up, as in directly before the Asriel fight.
You scaled Photoshop Flowey to Frisk.
I said the second time Photoshop Flowey showed up, as in directly before the Asriel fight.
You scaled Photoshop Flowey to Frisk.
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Can you guys not derail this?
Flowey doesn't scale to Chara. The end. Everything else here means just about nothing to the crt and is derailement.
And Starter, you said that you feel iffy about the Flowey part. That part explains that Flowey doesn't scale to Chara. The connection is an obvious one.
Flowey doesn't scale to Chara. The end. Everything else here means just about nothing to the crt and is derailement.
And Starter, you said that you feel iffy about the Flowey part. That part explains that Flowey doesn't scale to Chara. The connection is an obvious one.
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Im just defending full power asriel scaling right now. I should mention again that in this thread the flowey scaling is debunked in the op and accepted fully. The save files being timelines was undecided, but that is a topic for later.
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So far. Floweys scaling is accepted (and has been before) as being wrong and should be downgraded. Not to many have given their opinions on asriels angel death. He should likely be at least 2-C likely 2-B due to performing the true reset which functions as charas game ending feat, which is the reason the anomaly scales to begin with.
Abstract existence and mid godly are something that needs further discussion. But I still linked a past attempt at downgrading charas mid godly and abstraction where azathoth brought up the main reasoning behind it.
If we can agree with the tier changes then we can proceed with that and then I'll let everyone focus on the mid godly and abstract existence.
Abstract existence and mid godly are something that needs further discussion. But I still linked a past attempt at downgrading charas mid godly and abstraction where azathoth brought up the main reasoning behind it.
If we can agree with the tier changes then we can proceed with that and then I'll let everyone focus on the mid godly and abstract existence.
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Unfortunately, we CAN'T agree with the tier changes, especially me.
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There is no we, there is you. You, who failed to give proof.
You also have a pretty bad story with taking every little thing to wank undertale characters.
You also have a pretty bad story with taking every little thing to wank undertale characters.
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So you don't like me.
I don't take every little thing, I know every little thing.
I don't take every little thing, I know every little thing.
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There is no likening going on in here. You failed to give proof that Flowey scales. You failed to counter the reasons given to why he doesn't, too. And his statement only extends to Asriel regardless.
Don't claim you know everything about anything. You wanted to give sleep Manipulation to Frisk because they can sing to a Knight Knight, an obviously tired monster, to put them asleep while ignoring that a monster right besides them is unaffected. You want to give undyne power nullifixation because when you go to temmie to sell her message, she doesn't accept it. You wanted to give toriel existence erasure because she healed you faster than Flowey could kill you.
Long story short, you have now repeatedly made revisions where you list out of context occasions to give abilities, and you were the one calling others downplayers while failing to properly counter their arguments.
Don't claim you know everything about anything. You wanted to give sleep Manipulation to Frisk because they can sing to a Knight Knight, an obviously tired monster, to put them asleep while ignoring that a monster right besides them is unaffected. You want to give undyne power nullifixation because when you go to temmie to sell her message, she doesn't accept it. You wanted to give toriel existence erasure because she healed you faster than Flowey could kill you.
Long story short, you have now repeatedly made revisions where you list out of context occasions to give abilities, and you were the one calling others downplayers while failing to properly counter their arguments.
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Im pretty much agreeing with it all.
I mean, Asriel (base) did once say that he would be destroy the entire timeline, but he never said that he would destroy all the timelines. Angel of Hyperdeath is still the same, but would be 2-C to possibly 2-B as it says "the whole world is ending", which would mean that the entirety of Undertale is ending, SAVEs included depending on how many were created before fighting Asriel.
I mean, Asriel (base) did once say that he would be destroy the entire timeline, but he never said that he would destroy all the timelines. Angel of Hyperdeath is still the same, but would be 2-C to possibly 2-B as it says "the whole world is ending", which would mean that the entirety of Undertale is ending, SAVEs included depending on how many were created before fighting Asriel.
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That Photoshop Flowey scales to who? Frisk, who I explained in detail, or Chara, who I wasn't asked about?
Knight Knight showed zero signs of being tired beforehand, in fact she was a mercenary trying to kill the child. And in almost every RPG the main method of sleep induction can only be done to one enemy at a time. No, I wanted to give Undyne minor Power Nullification because she made it physically impossible for the letter to be sold, in fact replacing the price itself with the word "NO!!!" I did not want to give Toriel Existence Erasure, I wanted her to have the ability to get rid of energy attacks before they connect.
Failing to roperly counter their arguments? What do you think I've been doing all this time?
Knight Knight showed zero signs of being tired beforehand, in fact she was a mercenary trying to kill the child. And in almost every RPG the main method of sleep induction can only be done to one enemy at a time. No, I wanted to give Undyne minor Power Nullification because she made it physically impossible for the letter to be sold, in fact replacing the price itself with the word "NO!!!" I did not want to give Toriel Existence Erasure, I wanted her to have the ability to get rid of energy attacks before they connect.
Failing to roperly counter their arguments? What do you think I've been doing all this time?
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Alright, you guys can take this elsewhere if it's really needed. There's no need to bring up past history and derail a thread like this, it only invites trouble
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Sean... this thread has three parts.
One about Flowey scaling to Chara. One about Asrial scaling to Chara. One about Chara's abilities.
You were not asked anything, periods. You came here to comment yourself. If you aren't answering to either of the above three topics,then don't answer here but make a separate crt.
One about Flowey scaling to Chara. One about Asrial scaling to Chara. One about Chara's abilities.
You were not asked anything, periods. You came here to comment yourself. If you aren't answering to either of the above three topics,then don't answer here but make a separate crt.
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Bump
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I agree with pretty much everything.
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Bump
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Three knowledgeable staff members have commented, two approved of the scaling being wrong. Starter pack im not entirely sure where he stands, though he doesnt seem to approve of flowey scaling to chara. The only knowledgeable member who disagrees is sean who likely wont ever approve of that. And crimsom azoth said he will take a look.
However as said before, the scaling was fully debunked long ago and accepted as being wrong by most knowledgeable members. Do you believe it is safe to make the tier changes so mid godly and ae can be focused on? Or should i bump the messages i sent to the staff on their walls?
However as said before, the scaling was fully debunked long ago and accepted as being wrong by most knowledgeable members. Do you believe it is safe to make the tier changes so mid godly and ae can be focused on? Or should i bump the messages i sent to the staff on their walls?
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This looks fine, but just in case, tell them to comment here.
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I disagree with Asriel being below Chara because infinity. Everything else has my attention.
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- Thread starter
- #104
I don't see how infinite stats mean anything. We have zero ideas about Chara's stats, and if you want to go by the number their damage does...The real cal howard said:
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It was argued above why he would scale, yeah, but that's besides the point.
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No matter how you look at the Undertale-verse, the worlds are still a finite number depending on how many SAVEs you make. And the "infinite" is likely the work of game mechanics, topped with the lack of proof, that further explains that Base Asriel doesnt scale to Chara. AoHD Asriel still scales, as he was doing a True Reset, just like how Chara would do it.
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@The real cal howard Infinite stats dont really have much effect especially when charas are sorta untouched. Especially when the reason he became 2-B was because his stats are likely unfathomable to frisk to the point where they are viewed as infinite.
However I do believe angel death asriel should scale via true reset and ending the world by existing.
So are you in agreement with the rest? I do remember you making a downgrade thread similar to this quite a while ago. I brought it up earlier since azathoths points made to defend charas abilities are interesting.
However I do believe angel death asriel should scale via true reset and ending the world by existing.
So are you in agreement with the rest? I do remember you making a downgrade thread similar to this quite a while ago. I brought it up earlier since azathoths points made to defend charas abilities are interesting.
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Yeah a lot of the stuff you're talking about now reiterate how I felt about other things.
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WhaddyaMean?
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It means I concur with things here and there.
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Ah i see. So do you mind summarising your current stance on these possible changes?
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But that's soooo much work...
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You can leave a short summary about what you agree and disagree on if you want.
Or just leave no summary at all. Its up to you ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»
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You'll get your summary.
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I do wonder how Asriel (AGoH) actually scales to Chara, would he go above or equal to? Agree that Depowered Asriel doesn't scale to Chara.
Also absolutely agree that Flowey doesn't scale to Chara.
Also absolutely agree that Flowey doesn't scale to Chara.
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I don't think GoH Asriel would scale, and I also think it's pretty agreed upon that only AoD Asriel would scale. Unless you meant AoD.
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Yeah I meant AoD. Sorry for the miscommunication
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Np
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Doing the true reset and ending the world by existing. As for whos superior, its kinda left untouched. Though they may be just outright comparable due to performing the same feat.Crimson Azoth said:
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