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Touhou's Outdated 6-C Calc

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Wasn't there a consensus to downgrade part of the characters to 10-C? In addition, if I remember correctly, other than the tiering problems, the pages are properly elaborate in other respects.

Does anybody have suggestions for members that we should ask to come here to help out?
 
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I think downgrade the fairies (specifically their physically) to 10-C is ok. Their special combat skills (Cirno) should get a separate tier. This applied to other Touhou characters.

For Touhou feats, I think feats from official manga is more realiable than feats from game function. Feats from stories is more realiable than feats from game function.
 
Yeah, radio silence, 80 posts in.

Crim said he'd look for some feats. Having to wait 4 days is not the end of the world.
 
I agree with Promestein.
 
Wokistan said:
"clock's tickin'"

That was for "no responses within a week", not "the whole revision has to be done in a week"
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, if this turns dead for a significantly long time I will just resort to turning them all Unknown, and leave stat changes to further revisions, made likely by Crimson for his replacement stat proposal
 
Why unkown? We already have a re-cal cable feat from the fighting game. If not scaling was presented above.
 
The problem is if the thread goes nowhere for too long regarding actual changes on profiles, hence why just applying the changes so they may be applied later would be a possibility if this takes too long. Having a blatantly wrong rating that has been agreed on being incorrect on over 50 profiles isn't good, and just defaulting to "Unknown" is a normal thing to do per the Content Moderator activity notes.
 
00potato said:
But we already said 10-C for fairies and such was fine?
Click to expand...
I didn't know "we" constituted of 3 people, all non-staff, one not even a supporter, coming to the conclusion disjointedly and this not being responded to by majority of people on thread.

And the "such" part I don't think has been agreed by anyone.

If you don't make your points on the thread and show your agreements, this would function slower lol
 
Read the messages before that one. The point was 10-C is another option. We always have that for if feats aren’t found. Unknown isn’t needed as a tier, and should not be used.
 
00potato said:
The point was 10-C is another option.
Click to expand...
Point is actually that these proposals aren't being responded to, and I am unsure whether Touhou supporters have telepathic capabilities, but surprisingly I need to see people respond to a proposal for it to be considered as valid :V

If this isn't how this verse does threads and silence = "I accepted the proposal" then you'd have to excuse me for not understanding this :/
 
Do the rest of you think that we should use 10-C or unknown statistics?
 
Also pardon me but Cirno's ice blocks being thrown still likely exhert some force which would likely put them at 10-A or above. I think 10-C seems ridiculously low here
 
Answering this as a fan with limited knowledge.

The whole 10-C thing would only apply to fairys either way (Which arent a large chunk of the profiles affected, suprise suprise), as everyone, everything and their mothers would scale above fairys pretty massivly, as those are considered cannon fodder within Touhou. So while rating Fairys that low might be correct, its pretty unhelpful, as it barely fixes any profile. I dont even know if we have any fairy page outside of Cirno.

So yeah, it serves us best to find actual feats though before we arbitarly assign placeholder tiers for all the low and mid tiers. Which i cant help with as i only have played a couple of main and side series games. Good luck!
 
Couldn't one scale the speed of the ice projectiles from the master spark instead? IIRC I suggested that as being the more correct version of the calc back in the days.
For reference, the Master Spark is real light because it
  • was called the speed of light
  • reflects of explicitly normal mirrors
  • was stated to have the same speed in all reference frames
IIRC it even has a somewhat impressive speed showing by a Master Spark on the Moon being seen from earth a short time later.
 
If you disagree with Amelia's version of the calculation, would you be willing to redo it DontTalkDT? Or do I misunderstand?
 
DontTalkDT said:
Couldn't one scale the speed of the ice projectiles from the master spark instead? IIRC I suggested that as being the more correct version of the calc back in the days.
For reference, the Master Spark is real light because it
  • was called the speed of light
  • reflects of explicitly normal mirrors
  • was stated to have the same speed in all reference frames
IIRC it even has a somewhat impressive speed showing by a Master Spark on the Moon being seen from earth a short time later.
Click to expand...
It was extremely close to SoL, and breaking SoL KE standards, and thus discounted.

...this thread is about said discounting...
 
DontTalkDT said:
Couldn't one scale the speed of the ice projectiles from the master spark instead? IIRC I suggested that as being the more correct version of the calc back in the days.
For reference, the Master Spark is real light because it
  • was called the speed of light
  • reflects of explicitly normal mirrors
  • was stated to have the same speed in all reference frames
IIRC it even has a somewhat impressive speed showing by a Master Spark on the Moon being seen from earth a short time later.
Click to expand...
Isnt that calc stacking?
 
Would rather not read through the previous page, lotta messages and I'm about to hit the hay.

What exactly am I asked to deal with here? If I can get full context I can probably help. @The_Impress is this the thing you talked to me on Discord about? What's the Sit-Rep?
 
Antvasima said:
If you disagree with Amelia's version of the calculation, would you be willing to redo it DontTalkDT? Or do I misunderstand?
Click to expand...
It's not that I disagree with the calc in itself (It looks ok, I think). I'm just saying that there are ways to calc the feat that give way higher results.
I would prefer to leave Touhou to its supporters, but if it is agreed that the feat can be done with the Master Spark and nobody else is willing to do it I might calculate it.
Psychomaster35 said:
Isnt that calc stacking?
Click to expand...
No? It is just comparing the speed of the movement of one projectile we see on screen to the speed of a light beam we see on screen. The light beam is the speed of light due to being a real light beam, not due to any sort of calculation. It's a simple speed / KE calc via comparision. The basic of the basics.

The_Impress said:
It was extremely close to SoL, and breaking SoL KE standards, and thus discounted.

...this thread is about said discounting...
Click to expand...
It being extremely close to SoL shouldn't be a problem in itself, as long as you are not ending up with FTL KE for the thing you are calculating.
The problem with the SoL standards was just that the thing the calc is scaling from, i.e. the big glowing bullets from the Hell's Artifical Sun technique, weren't actual light as they didn't behave like that, no? I'm fine with discounting the feat for that reason, however, what I'm saying is that there is another technique that should be real light and we can do a similar calc with it, which would probably get very fast projectiles and hence pretty high KE energy again.
 
DontTalkDT:

Okay. Thank you. Your help with a calculation would be appreciated.
 
I will admit I don't personally agree with yeeting this sort of feat, but, standards do say that just having an attack go at a speed shouldn't automatically apply, especially if the damage caused is far lower than what it logically should cause

The exceptions are in the cases of supermassive weapons but that's not really relevant in this case
 
I have to try taking a closer look at the games to make sure, but it might just be that Master Spark actually has a 1 frame expansion animation in all fighting games. If that's the case my idea for KE doesn't work.
So I guess the downgrade might be the way to go for now. (Well, maybe one would get at least a little bit higher values by using freezing energies.... might do that later)
 
So can somebody please remind me about what we should do here exactly?

Has anybody evaluated Amelia's calculation yet?
 
In my opinion, the downgrade is more accurate for the profile. Fairies in Touhou are relying on their immortal annoying like "kid". And KE feat from a Touhou fighting game which they still use the Spell Card Rule may not be reliable enough since the speed appeared in fighting game could be GM.
 
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