Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,211
- 10,535
This will likely be my last Touhou thread before returning to the research grindset, but seeing as this will lay the groundwork for some important stuff in the future, I thought it best to get it out of the way now.
Where We Are Now
The basis of Touhou's cosmology starts with the split between Gensokyo and the Outside World. For most of history, the two occupied the same space, but Gensokyo was later separated from the Outside World, establishing a "new world" with its own distinct flow of time and laws of physics. The Outside World is a place where phenomenon like the big bang and brane theory have been observed and proven, not to mention it is a direct analogue to the "real world", so it should be low 2-C in size. Gensokyo, however, has only ever been shown to have a mountain to island sized scope, and wouldn't be low 2-C.
Then there's the Netherworld, a place which was it's own Otherworld (as Otherworlds are any realm outside the Earth and Moon) and is infinite in size. Otherworlds are stated to be other dimensions, and are repeatedly demonstrated to have their own space-times, meaning an infinitely sized one such as this should be low 2-C. Supporting this to a minor extent is the notion that physics act differently in the Netherworld, as demonstrated by how sound travels more slowly there.
What's Being Changed
First and foremost, our current 2-C standards claim that two space-times that shared a prior point in time (eg; branching timelines) do not qualify for separate low 2-C spaces, and thus merging them cannot be 2-C. This is an obvious problem for Gensokyo and the Outside World, given the two's shared history (as well as Gensokyo's non-universal size).
But this is where the Netherworld comes in. During the events of Perfect Cherry Blossom, the barrier separating it from Gensokyo is destroyed, something described as "thinning the barrier between worlds", and allowing people to come and go as they please. Or, to put it another way, what were once two separate space-times were merged into one, now infinite space-time. However, this has another, bigger effect; The Netherworld, prior to PCB, was always its own space-time separate from the Outside World. This means it shares no past with it, and the newly merged Gensokyo/Netherworld would be considered its own distinct low 2-C space in comparison. This is a little confusing, so here's a small graph explaining what I mean:
How this Affects the Scaling
To start simple, Yukari has a clear and direct statement of being able to destroy all of Gensokyo. Given that it's now an infinite space-time, this can easily be said to be high 3-A/low 2-C, which isn't an upgrade but strongly supports the current tiers.
Of greater note, however, are two feats that were previously rejected because of Gensokyo's finite size. Both Yukari and the Occult Balls have confirmation of being able to remove the boundary between Gesokyo and the Outside World, something noted to cause the two world to merge together into one. Merging two low 2-C spaces into one another has always been 2-C, and since the Netherworld has always had its own past independent of the Outside World, there should be no issues regarding split timelines and whatnot.
Of course, this would mean we have 4 different 2-C feats to scale off of, which at this point makes the "likely" rating unnecessary. It's my opinion that the consistency of 2-C feats should give the high tiers a flat 2-C rating, while the remaining low 2-C feats can remain as support.
TL;DR:
-Gensokyo becomes infinite in size due to being merged with the Netherworld.
-Because the Netherworld has its own past, it would make Gensokyo it's own low 2-C space separate from the Outside World.
-This gives us additional low 2-C/2-C feats to work with, enough to put the high tiers at just 2-C, not "likely" 2-C.
AGREE: @Dragonite007, @1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void, @Kirbonic_Pikmin, @Lynieryz, @BlastX, @Rakih_Elyan, @Psychomaster35, @Deidalius, @DarkDragonMedeus, @AdamHkureiJanitor, @Shmooply, @Ret_of_Guys, @Artorimachi_Meteoraft, @LordGriffin1000, @Maverick_Zero_X, @Quantu
DISAGREE: @ImmortalDread, @PrinceofPein
NEUTRAL: @Planck69
Where We Are Now
The basis of Touhou's cosmology starts with the split between Gensokyo and the Outside World. For most of history, the two occupied the same space, but Gensokyo was later separated from the Outside World, establishing a "new world" with its own distinct flow of time and laws of physics. The Outside World is a place where phenomenon like the big bang and brane theory have been observed and proven, not to mention it is a direct analogue to the "real world", so it should be low 2-C in size. Gensokyo, however, has only ever been shown to have a mountain to island sized scope, and wouldn't be low 2-C.
Then there's the Netherworld, a place which was it's own Otherworld (as Otherworlds are any realm outside the Earth and Moon) and is infinite in size. Otherworlds are stated to be other dimensions, and are repeatedly demonstrated to have their own space-times, meaning an infinitely sized one such as this should be low 2-C. Supporting this to a minor extent is the notion that physics act differently in the Netherworld, as demonstrated by how sound travels more slowly there.
What's Being Changed
First and foremost, our current 2-C standards claim that two space-times that shared a prior point in time (eg; branching timelines) do not qualify for separate low 2-C spaces, and thus merging them cannot be 2-C. This is an obvious problem for Gensokyo and the Outside World, given the two's shared history (as well as Gensokyo's non-universal size).
But this is where the Netherworld comes in. During the events of Perfect Cherry Blossom, the barrier separating it from Gensokyo is destroyed, something described as "thinning the barrier between worlds", and allowing people to come and go as they please. Or, to put it another way, what were once two separate space-times were merged into one, now infinite space-time. However, this has another, bigger effect; The Netherworld, prior to PCB, was always its own space-time separate from the Outside World. This means it shares no past with it, and the newly merged Gensokyo/Netherworld would be considered its own distinct low 2-C space in comparison. This is a little confusing, so here's a small graph explaining what I mean:
How this Affects the Scaling
To start simple, Yukari has a clear and direct statement of being able to destroy all of Gensokyo. Given that it's now an infinite space-time, this can easily be said to be high 3-A/low 2-C, which isn't an upgrade but strongly supports the current tiers.
Of greater note, however, are two feats that were previously rejected because of Gensokyo's finite size. Both Yukari and the Occult Balls have confirmation of being able to remove the boundary between Gesokyo and the Outside World, something noted to cause the two world to merge together into one. Merging two low 2-C spaces into one another has always been 2-C, and since the Netherworld has always had its own past independent of the Outside World, there should be no issues regarding split timelines and whatnot.
Of course, this would mean we have 4 different 2-C feats to scale off of, which at this point makes the "likely" rating unnecessary. It's my opinion that the consistency of 2-C feats should give the high tiers a flat 2-C rating, while the remaining low 2-C feats can remain as support.
TL;DR:
-Gensokyo becomes infinite in size due to being merged with the Netherworld.
-Because the Netherworld has its own past, it would make Gensokyo it's own low 2-C space separate from the Outside World.
-This gives us additional low 2-C/2-C feats to work with, enough to put the high tiers at just 2-C, not "likely" 2-C.
AGREE: @Dragonite007, @1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void, @Kirbonic_Pikmin, @Lynieryz, @BlastX, @Rakih_Elyan, @Psychomaster35, @Deidalius, @DarkDragonMedeus, @AdamHkureiJanitor, @Shmooply, @Ret_of_Guys, @Artorimachi_Meteoraft, @LordGriffin1000, @Maverick_Zero_X, @Quantu
DISAGREE: @ImmortalDread, @PrinceofPein
NEUTRAL: @Planck69
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