Touhou Deities Upgrades 2 (Featuring Hecatia from Touhou Series)

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Hi. So this thread will work as a kind of continuation of this one that talked about some amount of things that the gods of the series should have. However, I still think there are more abilities that could be added to the profiles. That's the main thing that I have to say, just let's begin.
And btw, most of the scans were already provided in the last thread, so to make this fast in those cases I will just quote the scans there.

Main Gods​

Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2) & Transduality (Type 2)
This should be relatively easy to explain, as gods predated existence and the creation of names/boundaries between everything, it could be implied that they exists beyond the systems of duality that shaped the world when it was everything named, which qualifies for at least Type 2 Transduality.

In the beginning, nothing in this world had a name. It was a world in which all things were mixed together in chaos. However, the gods in those ancient times gave a name to every last thing, and so the orderly world we see today was born. When naming something, a new border is created that makes it recognizable as one thing. You could say that the power to name is the creation to produce the object from nothingness, clearly the same power as a god’s. And because of the strength of this power, the things themselves remember their names. And that’s why I can see those names in them.

As far as we know, everything is built upon the existence of boundaries.
If there was no water surface, there could be no lake.
If there was no sky line, neither mountain nor sky could exist.
Were it not for the Great Barrier, even Gensokyo itself wouldn't exist.
If there were no boundaries, everything would probably exist as a single enormous object.

The NEP comes as they can be considered as nonexistent beings since, well, aren't bounded to any name and are formless.

From the Shinto perspective, gods are the true nature within all things. Originally, gods exist namelessly in nature or in tools.

In the beginning, the gods had a much more ambiguous shape, so they were nameless entities with no particular distinctions.

This idea is also supported by the fact that most of the times when in-verse it's talked about gods its in some way related to nothingness. The most recent example of this is in Unconnected Marketeers, when Chimata says this before her last Spell Card:

O wonderous human, who fears not even God.
The rainbow will close in just a few moments' time!

Finally, return even your life to nothing(God)!
This marks the end!

See how when "nothing" is mentioned is also highlighted above that it talks about God, which again, supports the idea of gods didn't existing at first place.
Another example could be Junko's ability, stating that when she purifies anything it returns that object to its godly state, without any name, essentially erasing that object, explained here.

I touched on it a little in Curiosities of Lotus Asia, but if I have to say it then it would be the power of the gods. A pure power from before things had names. When you give a name to something, its godly nature disappears. But she held onto that pure aspect all this time, and she can bestow it upon other things. It's a power that's almost like giving birth to a god.

So in short, true gods should be treated as nonexistent and transdual beings that predated the creation of everything.
Btw now that I mentioned Junko, she should also has within her abilities Existence Erasure & Void Manipulation for what I already explained. Anyway, let's follow.

Immortality (Type 8 & 9, possibly 3)
Starting with the first one, when they are named they bond to a concept, and so, relies on the myths and are capable of reborn with these.

When gods are named their powers are restricted, but they receive an identity. They lose the ability to exist within anything, becoming almost the same as youkai, but in return receive an ability to be reborn by their myths.

However, if they lose their faith, they will gradually return to their former existence. As for youkai, they disappear when forgotten, so they threaten people in order to prevent that. However for faith, it does not work the same. If a god did nothing but threaten people, it would lose faith and become a mere youkai.

This implies that as long as the stories and myths created around them, they will exist within the physical plane and could be capable of reborn due to the amount of faith they have.
The Type 9 comes from the fact that their true selves exists within everything, ergo being "beyond" the world in which the physical form is, and thus, they could be capable of returning if that primordial state is still intact.
And what about the Type 3? Well that comes froooom...

Avatar Creation
For the primordial ones, since they can create avatars when they turn into physical beings. This could potentially give to the physical gods also High-Godly regeneration, as when they create avatars, they are essentially restoring their physical selves from a state in which body, soul, mind, and their names doesn't exists, although for the moment I will leave it as just a possibility.

Pretty strong updates to be made, right? Well, that was just the basics. It's starting here in which the things reeally starts going weird. Let's see...

Regarding their Conceptual Manipulation, I think there can be added better explanations and details regarding that.
It's just stated there that they can modify their name/concept, and that's all. However I think there are some other details that could be expanded there.
First, let's look at this statement:

Unlike youkai, gods can change their own nature themselves. The stories that are created to do so are called "myths". Using these, we can freely change our own natures. Currently, I'm in the middle of creating a myth together with the humans and youkai of Gensokyo, but because I'm not receiving faith well as a mountain god, I am gradually planning to become a god of technological innovation.

Here we see how gods relies on the myths and thanks to these they are capable of changing their nature. However, I think this could also mean more about gods' abilities. Specifically, that the abilities that they gain when they become named beings are of a more abstract and conceptual nature than, well, just like magic powers or something.
And that has some sense with it, as the powers and abilities that they gain when they become those characters that we already known are referred as their "nature", and comes directly from the name they already has. Basically, when they gain a name they also gain the ability of manipulating the totality of that name. Further support could be this:

At the same time that the power to name is a god’s power, the gods themselves didn’t have names in the beginning. Like with Takemikazuchi no Mikoto or Hachiman, the names of the gods we are familiar with nowadays only represent but one aspect of these gods. Takemikazuchi no Mikoto was originally Mikatsuchi (Pot Spirit), and just as the name implies, he was a god lodged in a jar. When his name changed to Takemikazuchi, he changed from a god of sorcery (as implied by the ‘pot’ character) to a god of swordsmanship (implied by the ‘thunder’ character). By changing its name, a god changes its nature, which is evidence that a god’s name is only one aspect of their selves. In the beginning, the gods had a much more ambiguous shape, so they were nameless entities with no particular distinctions.

And lastly, a stronger evidence should be with Kanako's ability of manipulating the Sky (Also Suwako but I like more Kanako haha). She can manipulate the sky, indeed, but this doesn't just refers to, well, the sky, but also is deeply related with the concept of Qian, as her profile and article states:

Ability: The ability to create heavenliness (Qian (乾))

She is not manipulating just the sky/weather, she is actually manipulating the concept that represents the sky, and thus, she can also manipulate the derivatives concepts from the main one.
So yeah, gods when naming themselves are capable of gaining total access to that concept they has at the moment. So due to this, I would suggest changing the justification for the Conceptual Manipulation to something like this:

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; She can modify her own concept/name. When gods obtain a name, they gain total manipulation over the concept to which they are linked)

That should be enough regarding the conceptual stuff. Now I want to talk about some other abilities that gods should have.

Let's see Curiosities of Lotus Asia for the moment, because there is an interesting statement there:

She says that the world is made up of three layers.

As Reimu explains, the world that we know is composed of three layers of existence.
The first layer, the most basic one, being the layer of the physical world as we know. The layer of the physics and its laws:

First is the physical layer that moves in accordance with the laws of physics, including all living things, objects, etc. It is on this layer that an object falls towards the ground, and that the water of the river flows.

The second layer it's more depth and abstract than the first one. If the first layer manipulates the physical world, then the second layer is capable of manipulating the abstract world, being capable of manipulating things such as spirit, mind, emotions, etc. Even magic and sorcery are related to this one layer:

The second layer is one that moves with the spirit, which includes things such as magic and sorcery, the mental layer. One's mood turning sour when meeting an unpleasant person, and releasing all your stress and cares during a party lie here.

And since they are explicitly layers, and its heavily implied that the following layers exists beyond the previous ones, this just gives me to the conclusion that the second layer exists beyond the first layer, essentially, existing beyond the laws of physics. And what is that concept that exist beyond physics? Exactly, the metaphysics. Although that's just a topic for another time. So anyway, following with the explanation, the first layer is the physical world, the second layer is the abstract world, so what about the third layer? Well, as it's said, the third layer is the power of memory and history:

But according to Reimu, there is a third layer that rejects loops. The third layer is the layer of memory, which is the recollection of events that lies within all things. Since it's only possible to add to the memory layer, it's impossible to completely recreate the past. If something were to happen that already occurred in the past, then there would be a contradiction because that would imply that memory was lost, which is impossible. The memory layer always continues to build up.

The physical layer follows the laws of physics, the mental layer explains the outcomes and the memory layer alters probability, mutually creating the future. Reimu said that excepting the cases when something has already happened in the past, it is impossible to predict the future.

And why those all of this is important, you may ask? That's simple. This is something that matters because gods were the creators of everything that we know in-verse, they defined every border within everything when they put a name to all. And so, by mere logic, they also created the three layer that maintains the world. That being said, they should have the capacity of manipulating those layers and what they represents, exactly:
First Layer = Physics, Matter & Gravity Manipulation.
Second Layer = Magic, Soul, Mind & Empathic Manipulation. Also it could be a further support for the Conceptual Manipulation.
Third Layer = Causality, Fate & Probability Manipulation.
If this could be for the physical gods of the primordial ones can be discussed.

Also I think they could also has Reality Warping and Void Manipulation for their primordial keys, as, well, the naming of everything seems more like a conceptual based RW than just conceptual manip (it shaped everything, after all).

The gods that qualifies as Divine Spirits should also have resistance to things like Soul Manipulation and Possession, as they aren't affected at all by Vengeful Spirits:

Because of the vengeful spirits, neither humans nor youkai come here very often. According to hearsay, she undertook management of the area because a divine spirit like her is mostly unaffected by vengeful spirits.

Lastly, I think it could be added for their profiles Holy & Curse Manipulation, as they can give blessings or curses. Though I don't have the scan atm.
However, we have this:

Oxygen is a curse placed on animals, which
causes them to instantly die in its absence.
An anoxic zone is a sanctuary that's
protected from animals' intrusion.

You're bound to die of suffocation there too,
but I really suggest dying in a more pleasant way, you know?

That should be all regarding the main abilities of the gods. Now I want to talk about some specifics abilities for some gods.

Okina Matara​

She should have Creation & Pocket Reality Manipulation for obvious reasons (created the Land of the Backdoor after all).

Weather Manipulation as well since she was manipulating the seasons at her incident. Though now that I think about it seems more like she was actually manipulating the very nature of Gensokyo/seasons, so it seems also as more backup to the main idea of gods and their conceptual manipulation.

Power Nullification:
Apparently, her backdoors are capable of restrain one's abilities to the point that eventually she'll always win the battle, stated here:

How very foolish.
Let me declare this!
Victory against me is impossible in your current state.
As long as you have that door of the seasons on your back,
any battle between us will be nothing more than a farce.

Also here:

You really don't remember...
Well, I happen to remember it just fine.
With all your weapons sealed off,
you escaped through your own door and returned home.
Through the very same season door you have right now.
Do you want to meet the same fate again?

And we have this:

The enemy stole your season options!
Now, for the finale, fight against thine own sub-season!

And there can be added some new abilities due to her Spell Cards, for example:

Light Manipulation

Fire Manipulation

Ice(?) Manipulation

Plant(?) Manipulation

And for the extra stage Spell Cards:

Fire Manipulation (Again)

Light Manipulation (Again 2)

Summoning

And I think that's all regarding the Spell Cards' abilities.

One last thing: for her reasoning about the resistance to Conceptual Manipulation it could be added that she can have many names without being affected at all for that (it can be seen in the fact that she is a god of many things).

That should be all for Okina.

Kanako Yasaka​

I would add at least possible Space-Time Manipulation, as she apparently was capable of use her ability to build the whole Myouren in just a night:

Incidentally, she helped to build the Myouren Temple. The details of what triggered this are unknown, but the fact that she completed it in one night was quite memorable.

And Life Manipulation since one of the Spell Cards is creating, well, snakes:

Snakes, huh? You say there are too few, but I think it's just the right number not to feel creepy.

A bunch of snakes to eat all the frogs... What kind of dream is this?

Apparently "Wily Toad" actually left a bunch of frogs in the sky, and if we'd left them alone they would fall on the audience. So this snake danmaku was used to deal with them. We appreciate her quick thinking in trying to handle this without the audience noticing

Light Manipulation too:

So... serpents of light flying through the sky... But not too many? Sorry, I don't get it.

Shiki Eiki​

Portal Creation

Space-Time Manipulation and Reality Warping as she was capable of increasing the size of the Netherworld:

Eventually, the Yama became aware of this plan and decreed that phantoms shouldn't be seen, so it was put to rest.
Finally, the Yama increased the size of the Netherworld, thereby removing the necessity for the emigration plan.
It's said that the Netherworld today is larger than Hell.

Light/Energy Manipulation

And that's all for her.

Eirin Yagokoro​

Ok she has a lot to add.

From her Spell Cards:

Life Manipulation

Life Game. This version only prolongs the cells' lives, though; there's no next generation, and the families all die out.
It's not following the rules at all. Their lifespans are too long because she gave them too much medicine.

Information Manipulation

An intellect that shows the way.
I can't even dream of this thing being a sensible device.

An intellect that shows the way. It's probably got book smarts, though.
Old-school games have tons of enemies with their brains exposed. That's so cheap.

Curse Manipulation

13 is an unlucky number.
Only the moon people know the reason why it failed.

And from the Grimoire of Marisa:

This one's apparently a cursed Spell Card, able to shoot down anything that flies up.

Space-Time Manipulation

Eirin messes with space for no reason. It's only befitting of the card's extravagant name.

Likely Black Hole Creation

That would easily make a black hole.
I wonder how many eras it'll take for us to build a black hole station.

Light Manipulation

Lastly I should give to her Higher-Dimensional Manipulation due to how Klein Bottle works.

Hecatia Lapislazuli​

Ah yes, it's all coming together
Anyway, for this part I would like to recall what I already said about gods:

gods when naming themselves are capable of gaining total access to that concept they has at the moment.

And as we saw, there are a lot of examples of this (Okina manipulating the seasons, life force, stars, etc, Kanako manipulating the sky, Eirin manipulating the knowledge [as she's related to Omoikane] and space, and so on)

So what about Hecatia? You may ask.
She's not particularly a god of an specific concept. Rather, she's somewhat a case like Okina, that have many names attached to her, but in this case, all those names are related to a more specific one: the Hell.
She's a goddess of Hell, but also a goddess of the Earth, of the Moon, and of the many Otherworlds that exists throughout reality.
That's something that she also states here:

Nah, it's fine. As long as I'm on
Earth, I'm an Earth goddess.

We can see that the type of goddess she is can vary depending on the body she has.

So why is this important?
Because through this we could interpret way better her main ability of having three bodies. In short, this isn't just, well, having three bodies, but also, this is having manipulation of each world she represents with each body.

There are three things that supports this idea:

First we have that with each body she gains different abilities related to each world she is at the moment.
For example when she is in her Otherworlds body she can manipulate flames from Hell and Otherworlds, when she is in her Earth body she can manipulate the impurity within oneself (which in-verse is a concept related to earthlings), and when she is in her Moon body she can manipulate... well, moon stuff. It seems that when she changes from each different body she gains the ability to at least manipulate aspects of each one of those worlds.

Next we have that she apparently was manipulating the Dream World to kept trapped the lunarians in there, and that she also was capable of releasing them at the moment she was requested to do so. Look that this was made by the Hecatia from the Otherworlds, and don't forget that the Dream World could be considered as one of the Otherworlds.

And last we have this from her profile in Strange Creators of Outside World:

A goddess who administers the Hells of the Moon, Earth, and Otherworlds, she has a body in each world that is capable of moving freely. She once governed Hell, but now spends her time freewheeling and acting like an outlaw.

She seems to have control of the Hells existing throughout every world, potentially being capable of manipulating them. That could also be the main reason why she can manipulate aspects of each world when she changes between her different bodies.

So what kind of ability should be this? Well, I think that with all of the things showed this could be Reality Warping and Law Manipulation, possibly Space-Time Manipulation as well, since she seems to be capable of manipulating the whole worlds/Hells as she pleases and use aspects of them when fighting. And add to this the main abilities that are showed from her Spell Cards (Fire Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Creation, Light Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Radiation Manipulation, and so).

That should be all for her main ability.

Now, she can have another justification for her Type 9 Immortality.
We have this:

Also, since the Moon, Earth, and Otherworlds each have their own Hell, and her core soul resides in Hell,
she's a rather troublesome god who can't easily be retaliated against if viewed as an enemy.
The Dream World falls under 'Otherworlds', by the way.

It could be added to her Immortality that her core resides in another existential plane (Hell), while the one we are fighting are just duplicates/avatars.

Finally, to her resistance to Conceptual Manipulation it can be added that she can freely change her concept in battle without being affected at all (seem when she change of body).

Well, that should be all for this thread.

Ah yeah, one last thing.

Shouldn't Komachi be treated as a god instead of a youkai? because, well, she is a Shinigami after all.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

a

 

[Weeeee]

Absolutely yes.

 

[Gonzalo]

I agree

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Finally
Input

 

[Gonzalo]

Bump

 

[Alice_the_Eternal_Sleep]

Protuberancia

 

[Alice_the_Eternal_Sleep]

Btw, I agree

 

[Guardian_Doge]

I agree to the maximum extent possible of human comprehension.

All that's left for touhou is a new cosmology blog.
Immeasurable speed and high 1-C XD

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

All that's left for touhou is a new cosmology blog.
Immeasurable speed and high 1-C XD

Shhhhh

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Bump.
Anyway. While waiting, I made a sandbox to kill the time.
And if the updates are accepted, then the profiles should look something like this.
Btw, while I was making it I thought something regarding this part:

All previous ability except:...

While I can understand in part the reasoning of this, I also think it's essentially wrong.
Because the abilities they gain when naming themselves are nothing but just a part of their true aspects.

the names of the gods we are familiar with nowadays only represent but one aspect of these gods.

By changing its name, a god changes its nature, which is evidence that a god’s name is only one aspect of their selves.

So I don't believe it's totally ok to say that they lose the abilities they gain when they are in the physical world. They still have it, but now they are just present in another more abstract and incomprehensible way. So I also suggest changing that part to something like this:

All previous abilities to an unfathomably degree, except: Immortality (Type 8 & 9)

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

What have you done...this verse isn't supposed to be this strong

I Agree.

 

[Pixy]

So that clear why Lunarian are scare Junko and Hecatia af Also thx a lot for the detail guys I researching about how Junko's ability but look like you just answer almost all my question

 

[Bummel]

Agree

Especially for komachi my girl should be god for beginning

 

[Bummel]

Also okina should have power bestowal

She gave the backup dancer her power,empower entire gensokyo with her backdoor(well this is probably just her backdoor power but yeah that can work too),she give dream sumireko some power

 

[Pixy]

Any way when their tier will get upgrade ? or we have to wait for stuff doing it ? Cuz I check everything hecatia's said is true those info got mention in manga You can check by copy those message and search in google Ok I'll show ya
here evidence

Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2) & Transduality (Type 2)

In the beginning, nothing in this world had a name. It was a world in which all things were mixed together in chaos. However, the gods in those ancient times gave a name to every last thing, and so the orderly world we see today was born. When naming something, a new border is created that makes it recognizable as one thing. You could say that the power to name is the creation to produce the object from nothingness, clearly the same power as a god’s. And because of the strength of this power, the things themselves remember their names. And that’s why I can see those names in them.

As far as we know, everything is built upon the existence of boundaries.
If there was no water surface, there could be no lake.
If there was no sky line, neither mountain nor sky could exist.
Were it not for the Great Barrier, even Gensokyo itself wouldn't exist.
If there were no boundaries, everything would probably exist as a single enormous object.

got mention in Curiosities of Lotus Asia/Chapter 15 here

The NEP comes as they can be considered as nonexistent beings since, well, aren't bounded to any name and are formless.

From the Shinto perspective, gods are the true nature within all things. Originally, gods exist namelessly in nature or in tools.

In the beginning, the gods had a much more ambiguous shape, so they were nameless entities with no particular distinctions.

is from Symposium of Post-mysticism/Part 5 here

Immortality (Type 8 & 9, possibly 3)

When gods are named their powers are restricted, but they receive an identity. They lose the ability to exist within anything, becoming almost the same as youkai, but in return receive an ability to be reborn by their myths.

However, if they lose their faith, they will gradually return to their former existence. As for youkai, they disappear when forgotten, so they threaten people in order to prevent that. However for faith, it does not work the same. If a god did nothing but threaten people, it would lose faith and become a mere youkai.

is from is from Symposium of Post-mysticism/Part 5 too here

Avatar Creation

Unlike youkai, gods can change their own nature themselves. The stories that are created to do so are called "myths". Using these, we can freely change our own natures. Currently, I'm in the middle of creating a myth together with the humans and youkai of Gensokyo, but because I'm not receiving faith well as a mountain god, I am gradually planning to become a god of technological innovation.

is from Symposium of Post-mysticism/Part 5 too here

At the same time that the power to name is a god’s power, the gods themselves didn’t have names in the beginning. Like with Takemikazuchi no Mikoto or Hachiman, the names of the gods we are familiar with nowadays only represent but one aspect of these gods. Takemikazuchi no Mikoto was originally Mikatsuchi (Pot Spirit), and just as the name implies, he was a god lodged in a jar. When his name changed to Takemikazuchi, he changed from a god of sorcery (as implied by the ‘pot’ character) to a god of swordsmanship (implied by the ‘thunder’ character). By changing its name, a god changes its nature, which is evidence that a god’s name is only one aspect of their selves. In the beginning, the gods had a much more ambiguous shape, so they were nameless entities with no particular distinctions.

is from Curiosities of Lotus Asia/Chapter 15 here


The rest of the qoutes after Main Gods
are some from game dialogue and some from Manga
If you wanna find more about the source of the quote just tell me I'll find them for you

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

She gave the backup dancer her power,empower entire gensokyo with her backdoor(well this is probably just her backdoor power but yeah that can work too),she give dream sumireko some power

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about that. Thanks for pointing it.

Any way when their tier will get upgrade ? or we have to wait for stuff doing it ? Cuz I check everything hecatia's said is true those info got mention in manga You can check by copy those message and search in google Ok I'll show ya

Honestly, the Tier wouldn't change for a while, because, well, 1) it's a really controversial topic, so better keep it for the last one, and 2) there's a lot of stuff to recollect and contextualize to doing so that fast. And I want to focus more in the general topic of the powers and abilities of the verse, because I think that's actually more essential than the AP change. I'm already working on a thread for general upgrades for the other characters, so yeah.
Also, I think this can be already applied(?). There are 7 people agreeing with this so far, but I think it could be prudent to wait at least some more hours for more input.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Also, I managed to update a bit how the new profiles should look, something like this.
And if this ends being applied it wouldn't bother me take care of the additions.
Also a non-related topic, but if no one will make the profiles of the 2 more recent game, may I can do them?

 

[Bummel]

You need some of staff agree to have this applied i think

 

[Pixy]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about that. Thanks for pointing it.

Honestly, the Tier wouldn't change for a while, because, well, 1) it's a really controversial topic, so better keep it for the last one, and 2) there's a lot of stuff to recollect and contextualize to doing so that fast. And I want to focus more in the general topic of the powers and abilities of the verse, because I think that's actually more essential than the AP change. I'm already working on a thread for general upgrades for the other characters, so yeah.
Also, I think this can be already applied(?). There are 7 people agreeing with this so far, but I think it could be prudent to wait at least some more hours for more input.

OK

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

You need some of staff agree to have this applied i think

Shit

 

[Pixy]

Oh one more thing Okina age should be 1200 + years old Cuz she exist Since Gensokyo still don't have Hakurei Barrier same as Yukari

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Ok since it's Saturday.

NEP2 is fine, but I would to add that the Primordials are incomprehensible, which is something akin to NEP2.

Transduality feels a bit reaching but I believe it could happen.

Why? My reasoning for this is that the Primordials are the one who created the dualities itself via creating Boundary, yes, they created dualities itself, and dualities does exist in Touhou, here's one proof of it.

弾幕結界は無限に続くＳＴＧの万華鏡。紫のさじ加減一つで生きる
か死ぬかが決まる。なんて人間は、ＳＴＧは、儚いものなのだろう。

Danmaku Bounded Field is the kaleidoscope of everlasting shooting games, Yukari's tip of finger decides its life and death. How frail humans... and shooting games are.

And they're unbounded by it, just like what the OP said.

That means if dualities and reality itself collapsed, they will still exist, destruction of dualities and reality is nothing for them, sound like a certain White Ranger don't you think?

The rest are fine.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Since we're on the topic, the Primordial Key can finally be combat applicable or no?

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

I don't see how they wouldn't be combat applicable at all. The only thing that could be considered as a "limitation" for them it's that they cannot interact with reality as the same as their physical vessels, but this is a topic that always repeats throughout fiction and it doesn't mean those other characters cannot be used in combat. Gods still has their abilities and special physiology, and I don't see how those could be just ignored.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

True true, that being said, the Primordials should be able to interact with NEP2 since all of them participate in creating reality, it save to assume they at least interact once with each others.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Those were times when everything was mixed together, so... well... yeah

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

True true, now we just need to wait for a staff.

 

[Antvasima]

@Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Promestein @Theglassman12 @CrimsonStarFallen @Ryukama @The_real_cal_howard

Would any of you be willing to help out here please?

 

[Pixy]

Those were times when everything was mixed together, so... well... yeah

Here he come let's wait for other stuffs

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Bump this

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody summarise what is being suggested here and why please?

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

holy gensokyo! I agree.

 

[Orioreeem]

This should be fine.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

somebody summarise what is being suggested here and why please?

Basically add more abilities to the gods due to some more information founded in both printing works and the games. All of them were explained and sustained in the main post and until now most people have agreed with the additions so far.
Which makes me go to point out that since basically various experts/supporters of the verse have agreed with this, then I think it could be fine to proceed with the updates. If some mods hasn't come yet, then it could be that they are busy with other stuff atm, and so I think it could be better to don't bother them with this for now. If they has something to say, then they could make another CRT later, as I did regarding this topic.
And about the additions, I can take care of them. I already made a sandbox with how some of the profiles should be if they are applied. Basically this:

Hecatia Gaming/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

So yeah, I think this can be finally applied.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Beyond existence and non-existence gods
If ant still needs a summary, I'll make a rough tl;dr later.

(Hecatia blitzed me)

 

[Antvasima]

Basically add more abilities to the gods due to some more information founded in both printing works and the games. All of them were explained and sustained in the main post and until now most people have agreed with the additions so far.
Which makes me go to point out that since basically various experts/supporters of the verse have agreed with this, then I think it could be fine to proceed with the updates. If some mods hasn't come yet, then it could be that they are busy with other stuff atm, and so I think it could be better to don't bother them with this for now. If they has something to say, then they could make another CRT later, as I did regarding this topic.
And about the additions, I can take care of them. I already made a sandbox with how some of the profiles should be if they are applied. Basically this:

Hecatia Gaming/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

So yeah, I think this can be finally applied.

@Dino_Ranger_Black @JustSomeWeirdo @LordGriffin1000 @Theglassman12 @Crabwhale @Eficiente

Are any of you willing to evaluate this please?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'll comment later today, however I won't be commenting on stuff like Nonexistent Physiology and Transduality as I'm not familiar with those and abilities like them are always a headache to deal with.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Antvasima]

I'll comment later today, however I won't be commenting on stuff like Nonexistent Physiology and Transduality as I'm not familiar with those and abilities like them are always a headache to deal with.

@Elizhaa

Would you be willing to help with the Transduality and NP evaluations?