- 2,636
- 1,039
So currently, beings like Shikieiki, Eirin, Okina, etc. Only has Multiversal range.
Now I will try to upgrade them via adding a new key for them, a key called "Primordial Form".
Basic Stuff
So, just in case you guys don't know, the Deities in Touhou exist before creation, they even are the ones responsible for the existence of creation itself, mentioned in Curiosities of Lotus Asia Chapter 15.
So boundaries=names=concepts seems pretty simple right?
The Upgrade
So, we know that the Deities in Touhou are omnipresent throughout nature, they exist as an idea, an abstraction throughout nature and can access countless otherworlds, therefore why they have their 2-B (Multiversal) range.
But, the thing is we know that the deities true form are conceptless, this is mentioned multiple times.
Here, we have Perfect Memento in a Strict Sense stating that they originally exist as a being without concepts, not as an idea.
they are nameless, and name=concept, so these Deities actual true form doesn't exist as an idea, but the form of all things before they have concepts.
Here we have Kanako stating that deities exist namelessly, in nature or in tools.
When a deity is given a name, they have a form to interact with the world, basically creating an avatar.
This is supported by a statement saying that the deities nature change on how they're named
See?
And here, we have PMMiSS stating that they were in the form of all things before getting a name, further implying these deities has a form beyond their true form, a primordial form. That changes when they achieve a name.
It is safe to assume, when a deity is named, their nature turns from a nameless deity to an idea that exist across all of existence.
So, a deity's true form before having a name is the form of namelessness (The form of things before having a name) , when a deity achieved a name, it's true form changes into an idea/will across all of existence. But the true form of a deity that has taken a name can still exist without concept (name/boundary) as the primordial form it originally were.
Now where's the upgrade, you may ask.
The upgrade is on a deity's range and abstract existence. Since I have confirmed that a deity's true form is the form of all things before named, meaning they will a High Complex Multiversal (H1-C) range when in their nameless state, because the Touhou Cosmology is H1-C, why are they H1-C? That's because they're the form of creation before creation are made.
Their AP won't change, don't worry.
Is this combat applicable?
Hmm, the way I see it, is this:
There's an enemy wanting to defeat the deity -> Can't destroy the avatar because they can multiply infinitely -> Proceed to conceptually erase the idea true form -> Accidentally returned the deity to its primordial form.
Ability
I got no concrete idea on what this "Primordial Form" key's ability, but we can add Nonexistent Physiology, maybe type 2? lol.
Just add resistance to Conceptual Manipulation and Abstract Existence type 1 (Is the form of all things before named) for now, we can add more later in the future.
Don't worry, I can handle the editing myself.
What will the profile looks like
It probably will look like this:
Range: At least Tens of Meters with Danmaku (Her firing range should be at least comparable to Sakuya's, who can throw knives at least 36 meters), Multiversal for her true form (Gods can access any Otherworld), High Complex Multiversal for her primordial form (Is the embodiment of all creation before named)
And the addition of "Avatar" tabber, "True Form" tabber and "Primordial Form" tabber
Lend me all of your input, Touhou Chads.
Thank you for reading all of this.
Now I will try to upgrade them via adding a new key for them, a key called "Primordial Form".
Basic Stuff
So, just in case you guys don't know, the Deities in Touhou exist before creation, they even are the ones responsible for the existence of creation itself, mentioned in Curiosities of Lotus Asia Chapter 15.
"Name" here, is the equivalent of someone's concept, without name, one would not be recognizable as a something, without names, reality as a whole will collapse and turns into one singular object, mentioned in Perfect Memento in a Strict Sense
| 境界を操る能力は、全ての物事を根底から覆す恐ろしい能力である。 | The ability to manipulate boundaries is a terrifying ability capable of fundamentally undermining reality. | |
| 知っての通り、物の存在は境界が存在する事で成り立っている。 | As far as we know, everything is built upon the existence of boundaries. | |
| 水面が無ければ、湖は存在しない。 | If there was no water surface, there could be no lake. | |
| 稜線が無ければ、山も空も存在しないだろう。 | If there was no sky line, neither mountain nor sky could exist. | |
| 幻想郷の大結界が無ければ、幻想郷も存在しない。 | Were it not for the Great Barrier, even Gensokyo itself wouldn't exist. | |
| もし全ての物に境界が存在しなければ、それは一つの大きな物であるという事である。 | If there were no boundaries, everything would probably exist as a single enormous object. |
The Upgrade
So, we know that the Deities in Touhou are omnipresent throughout nature, they exist as an idea, an abstraction throughout nature and can access countless otherworlds, therefore why they have their 2-B (Multiversal) range.
But, the thing is we know that the deities true form are conceptless, this is mentioned multiple times.
| 姿形は無く、触る事も会話する事も出来ない。 | Since they're formless, you can't touch or converse with them. | |
| その実体が何かというと、あらゆる物体の、名前を付けられる前の存在が神そのものなのである。 | As for what their true forms are, they were in the form of all things before they were given names. | |
| 名前を付けられた後にも、この神の影響が僅かに見られる。 | Even when given a name, the gods' effects are faintly perceptible. | |
| また、様々な物にこの神は宿るが、反対に概念の様な物体の無いものには宿っていない。 | These gods inhabit many different objects, but don't inhabit anything without a physical form. | |
| 畏れ多き神から親しみやすい神、高貴な神から下賤な神等、ピンからキリまで居る。 | They run the full gamut from the fearful to the friendly, from the noble to the humble, and so on. |
| 名前を付ける力が神の力であるのと同時に、神々には元々名前は付いていなかった。建御雷命タケミカヅチノミコトや八幡はちまん様の様に、今現在馴染なじみのある名前の付いている神は、その神の一側面を切り出した物に過ぎないのだ。建御雷は元々甕霊ミカツチであり、名前の通りカメに宿る神だったのだ。それが名前を建御雷命に変えられた事で、呪術（＝甕）の神が剣（＝雷）の神になった。名前が付いた事でその神の性質が変化するのは、名前は神の一側面を切り出したものであるという証拠だ。元々の神はもっと姿形も曖昧あいまいで、名も無きものと区別も付かなかったと言う事である。 | At the same time that the power to name is a god’s power, the gods themselves didn’t have names in the beginning. Like with Takemikazuchi no Mikoto or Hachiman, the names of the gods we are familiar with nowadays only represent but one aspect of these gods. Takemikazuchi no Mikoto was originally Mikatsuchi (Pot Spirit), and just as the name implies, he was a god lodged in a jar. When his name changed to Takemikazuchi, he changed from a god of sorcery (as implied by the ‘pot’ character) to a god of swordsmanship (implied by the ‘thunder’ character). By changing its name, a god changes its nature, which is evidence that a god’s name is only one aspect of their selves. In the beginning, the gods had a much more ambiguous shape, so they were nameless entities with no particular distinctions. |
| 神道から見た場合、神とは全ての物に宿る本質です。本来、神とは名前も付けられていないあるがままの自然だったり、道具だったりするものです。 | From the Shinto perspective, gods are the true nature within all things. Originally, gods exist namelessly in nature or in tools. |
| Byakuren | 名前の付いている貴方と矛盾しません？ | Doesn't that contradict the fact that you yourself have a name? |
|---|---|---|
| Kanako | 神は名前を付けられると力は制限されてしまいますが、自我が持てるようになるのです。何にでも宿る能力を失い、妖怪とほぼ差が無くなりますが……、逆に神話によって生まれ変わる能力を得ます。 | When gods are named their powers are restricted, but they receive an identity. They lose the ability to exist within anything, becoming almost the same as youkai, but in return receive an ability to be reborn by their myths. |
| Byakuren | つまり、神とは神話による変化能力を持つ妖怪だという事ですか。 | So basically, gods are youkai whose ability changes according to myths? |
| Kanako | しかし、信仰を失うと元の存在に戻っていきます。妖怪の場合は忘れ去られると消える、ですが……それは脅したり騒ぎを起こしたりしていれば防げますが、信仰の方はそうはいかない。脅していてばかりでは信仰を失い、ただの妖怪になってしまうのです。 | However, if they lose their faith, they will gradually return to their former existence. As for youkai, they disappear when forgotten, so they threaten people in order to prevent that. However for faith, it does not work the same. If a god did nothing but threaten people, it would lose faith and become a mere youkai. |
| Marisa | そう言えば豊穣の神に出会ったが、あいつ等、妖怪と区別が付かなかったぜ。 | Now that you mention it, I met a harvest goddess before, but I couldn't tell her apart from a youkai. |
This quote is obviously referring to the avatar, they have a physical body now, of course they can't be omnipresent. But this doesn't mean they lose the ability to be omnipresent as a true form, when they're named, their "true form" isn't the form of all things before they are named, instead, when they're named, their true form changes to an idea that exist across existence.
This is supported by a statement saying that the deities nature change on how they're named
| 名前を付ける力が神の力であるのと同時に、神々には元々名前は付いていなかった。建御雷命タケミカヅチノミコトや八幡はちまん様の様に、今現在馴染なじみのある名前の付いている神は、その神の一側面を切り出した物に過ぎないのだ。建御雷は元々甕霊ミカツチであり、名前の通りカメに宿る神だったのだ。それが名前を建御雷命に変えられた事で、呪術（＝甕）の神が剣（＝雷）の神になった。名前が付いた事でその神の性質が変化するのは、名前は神の一側面を切り出したものであるという証拠だ。元々の神はもっと姿形も曖昧あいまいで、名も無きものと区別も付かなかったと言う事である。 | At the same time that the power to name is a god’s power, the gods themselves didn’t have names in the beginning. Like with Takemikazuchi no Mikoto or Hachiman, the names of the gods we are familiar with nowadays only represent but one aspect of these gods. Takemikazuchi no Mikoto was originally Mikatsuchi (Pot Spirit), and just as the name implies, he was a god lodged in a jar. When his name changed to Takemikazuchi, he changed from a god of sorcery (as implied by the ‘pot’ character) to a god of swordsmanship (implied by the ‘thunder’ character). By changing its name, a god changes its nature, which is evidence that a god’s name is only one aspect of their selves. In the beginning, the gods had a much more ambiguous shape, so they were nameless entities with no particular distinctions. |
| Kanako | 神は妖怪と違って自分で自分の性質を変えてしまっても良いのです。性質を変える為に作られるストーリーを『神話』と呼びます。これを使って自由に性質を変える事が出来るのです。今は幻想郷の人間や妖怪と共に神話を作り上げている途中ですが、山の神という存在では信仰が得にくいという事で、徐々に技術革新の神に変化させようとしています。 | Unlike youkai, gods can change their own nature themselves. The stories that are created to do so are called "myths". Using these, we can freely change our own natures. Currently, I'm in the middle of creating a myth together with the humans and youkai of Gensokyo, but because I'm not receiving faith well as a mountain god, I am gradually planning to become a god of technological innovation. |
|---|---|---|
| Miko | 神様ってそんなに簡単に御神徳変えられたんだ。 | Gods can change their divine blessings that easily? |
| 姿形は無く、触る事も会話する事も出来ない。 | Since they're formless, you can't touch or converse with them. | |
| その実体が何かというと、あらゆる物体の、名前を付けられる前の存在が神そのものなのである。 | As for what their true forms are, they were in the form of all things before they were given names. | |
| 名前を付けられた後にも、この神の影響が僅かに見られる。 | Even when given a name, the gods' effects are faintly perceptible. | |
| また、様々な物にこの神は宿るが、反対に概念の様な物体の無いものには宿っていない。 | These gods inhabit many different objects, but don't inhabit anything without a physical form. |
So, a deity's true form before having a name is the form of namelessness (The form of things before having a name) , when a deity achieved a name, it's true form changes into an idea/will across all of existence. But the true form of a deity that has taken a name can still exist without concept (name/boundary) as the primordial form it originally were.
Now where's the upgrade, you may ask.
The upgrade is on a deity's range and abstract existence. Since I have confirmed that a deity's true form is the form of all things before named, meaning they will a High Complex Multiversal (H1-C) range when in their nameless state, because the Touhou Cosmology is H1-C, why are they H1-C? That's because they're the form of creation before creation are made.
Their AP won't change, don't worry.
Is this combat applicable?
Hmm, the way I see it, is this:
There's an enemy wanting to defeat the deity -> Can't destroy the avatar because they can multiply infinitely -> Proceed to conceptually erase the idea true form -> Accidentally returned the deity to its primordial form.
Ability
I got no concrete idea on what this "Primordial Form" key's ability, but we can add Nonexistent Physiology, maybe type 2? lol.
Just add resistance to Conceptual Manipulation and Abstract Existence type 1 (Is the form of all things before named) for now, we can add more later in the future.
Don't worry, I can handle the editing myself.
What will the profile looks like
It probably will look like this:
Range: At least Tens of Meters with Danmaku (Her firing range should be at least comparable to Sakuya's, who can throw knives at least 36 meters), Multiversal for her true form (Gods can access any Otherworld), High Complex Multiversal for her primordial form (Is the embodiment of all creation before named)
And the addition of "Avatar" tabber, "True Form" tabber and "Primordial Form" tabber
Lend me all of your input, Touhou Chads.
Thank you for reading all of this.
