Touhou Deities Upgrades 2 (Featuring Hecatia from Touhou Series)

[LordGriffin1000]

I'll look over the Main God stuff when I can but I'm not sure I could give a proper response, as for the specific abilities I'm only gonna comment on stuff I disagree with so if you don't see it mentioned, that means I agree with it.

Okina Matara

Everything seems fine but I'm not sure about Plant Manipulation and this next bit that you posted.

"One last thing: for her reasoning about the resistance to Conceptual Manipulation it could be added that she can have many names without being affected at all for that (it can be seen in the fact that she is a god of many things)."

I'm not sure about this but I'll leave that for more capable members.


Kanako Yasaka

"I would add at least possible Space-Time Manipulation, as she apparently was capable of use her ability to build the whole Myouren in just a night"

How is this Space-Time Manipulation? Everything else is fine.

Shiki Eiki

Wouldn't her increasing the size of the netherworld just be Size Manipulation/Pocket Reality Manipulation?.

Eirin Yagokoro

"Eirin messes with space for no reason. It's only befitting of the card's extravagant name."

This would just be Spatial Manipulation not Space-Time Manipulation since time isn't mentioned.

"Lastly I should give to her Higher-Dimensional Manipulation due to how Klein Bottle works."

I'm not really knowledgeable on our Higher Dimensional standards are so I can't really give input on this

Hecatia Lapislazuli

"Finally, to her resistance to Conceptual Manipulation it can be added that she can freely change her concept in battle without being affected at all (seem when she change of body)."

I'm not sure changing your concept proves resistance to concept manipulation but this is one of those abilities I'm not to familiar with. Everything else seems fine.


"Shouldn't Komachi be treated as a god instead of a youkai? because, well, she is a Shinigami after all."

I can't answer this since I'm not familiar with how the verse functions.

 

[Bummel]

Shiki Eiki

Wouldn't her increasing the size of the netherworld just be Size Manipulation/Pocket Reality Manipulation?.

Otherworld in touhou have they on space-time meaning if eiki manipulated is size she should atleast have space time manipulation i think

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

I'm not sure about this but I'll leave that for more capable members

Leave me explain it:
Basically as she has many concepts attached to her, this would mean that you'll need to affect all of them in order to totally warp Okina.
For example, let's say that someone changed one of the concepts that she has, and so changing her existence and abilites. Well, this would be uneffective as she doesn't have just one concept, but instead many of them, thus you'll need improved conceptual manipulation abilities to affect all those concepts in order to finally change her nature/incap her.

How is this Space-Time Manipulation? Everything else is fine.

Well, firstly it's said that this was a feat capable via her manipulation of sky, and secondly, I leave it as a possible as she, apparently, was capable of messing with time itself in order to finish everything in just one night.
Also this was something that I had to explain before, so mb.
But anyway, I say all these kind of abilities are space-time manipulation, since in Touhou, the manipulation of space is the same as the manipulation of time, and vice-versa, as stated here:

Q: In EoSD, who is the person Patchouli called "the person who likes to play around with time and space"?
A: That is of course referring to Sakuya.
Sakuya controls duration of time, not single moments of time.
In the former case of "duration of time", you can't separate it from space.
Because of that, manipulating time also means manipulating space, and vice-versa.

Manipulating time also manipulates space, and manipulating space also manipulates time. That's why with this kind of abilities I said this is not just spatial/time manipulation, but in fact space-time manipulation as a whole.

Wouldn't her increasing the size of the netherworld just be Size Manipulation/Pocket Reality Manipulation?

I don't think this qualifies for PRM as Netherworld is not a personal domain of Eiki, but instead another world with its separated space-time. And I don't think it's just size manip, as is not just affecting matter, but instead its own space-time and its boundaries.

This would just be Spatial Manipulation not Space-Time Manipulation since time isn't mentioned.

What I've already explained before.

I'm not sure changing your concept proves resistance to concept manipulation but this is one of those abilities I'm not to familiar with. Everything else seems fine.

It's not only the fact that she can change her concept, but instead that this doesn't affects her at all. Returning to another example as with Okina, let's say a character can change the concept of someone and via that nulify his abilities. Well, in this case, this wouldn't mean anything for Hecatia as she is constantly throughout this effect of changing her concept/name at anytime, and thus, she wouldn't be affected at all by this, and will be capable of returning to her original state.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Leave me explain it:
Basically as she has many concepts attached to her, this would mean that you'll need to affect all of them in order to totally warp Okina.
For example, let's say that someone changed one of the concepts that she has, and so changing her existence and abilites. Well, this would be uneffective as she doesn't have just one concept, but instead many of them, thus you'll need improved conceptual manipulation abilities to affect all those concepts in order to finally change her nature/incap her.



Well, firstly it's said that this was a feat capable via her manipulation of sky, and secondly, I leave it as a possible as she, apparently, was capable of messing with time itself in order to finish everything in just one night.
Also this was something that I had to explain before, so mb.
But anyway, I say all these kind of abilities are space-time manipulation, since in Touhou, the manipulation of space is the same as the manipulation of time, and vice-versa, as stated here:

Manipulating time also manipulates space, and manipulating space also manipulates time. That's why with this kind of abilities I said this is not just spatial/time manipulation, but in fact space-time manipulation as a whole.


I don't think this qualifies for PRM as Netherworld is not a personal domain of Eiki, but instead another world with its separated space-time. And I don't think it's just size manip, as is not just affecting matter, but instead its own space-time and its boundaries.


What I've already explained before.



It's not only the fact that she can change her concept, but instead that this doesn't affects her at all. Returning to another example as with Okina, let's say a character can change the concept of someone and via that nulify his abilities. Well, in this case, this wouldn't mean anything for Hecatia as she is constantly throughout this effect of changing her concept/name at anytime, and thus, she wouldn't be affected at all by this, and will be capable of returning to her original state.

Hmm, I guess this makes sense. I don't have a problem with the suggestions then. Thank you for explaining.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Great. Also thanks for coming to check this.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

I think this could be applied now.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Okina Matara

Everything seems fine but I'm not sure about Plant Manipulation and this next bit that you posted.

"One last thing: for her reasoning about the resistance to Conceptual Manipulation it could be added that she can have many names without being affected at all for that (it can be seen in the fact that she is a god of many things)."

I'm not sure about this but I'll leave that for more capable members.

Even if Okina's name is completely erased, she will work just fine like Junko, she also has many names attached to her. They can still be affected but it wont be enough to gain a W from them.

"Shouldn't Komachi be treated as a god instead of a youkai? because, well, she is a Shinigami after all."

I can't answer this since I'm not familiar with how the verse functions.

She should be since Shinigami literally means Death Deity, but the Touhou Wiki doesn't list Komachi as one, for some reason.

 

[Delta333]

So if I understand correctly,Gods predate all names (concepts) that made up reality so they should have transdual type 2? Or there are more reasons than this?

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

I think this could be applied now.

I think we should wait for more input on NEP2 and TD2.
NEP2 should be pretty obvious since the deities are conceptless on all level, and is described as Primordial nothingness

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

So if I understand correctly,Gods predate all names (concepts) that made up reality so they should have transdual type 2? Or there are more reasons than this?

They predate them, unbounded by them, and creates them, they created dualities itself via creating a boundary between them, they're also unaffected if reality and all of it's dualities got destroyed.

 

[Pixy]

Great. Also thanks for coming to check this.

this is kinda out from topic but hey Hecatia Can you explain more about Junko's Species pls ? Everyone in Touhou Fan even ZUN still can't tell what's exactly Junko's Species...
According to Touhou 15 lore Junko keep trying to attack Lunarian at Lunar Captital But None of her try have been successful til she meet hecatia So there something I'm really wondering...

1 . Why Lunarian can't kill Junko ? I already know what you said in the at above But ZUN said Her soul are " pure " than Human and Youkai ? And I'm afriad more than Lunarian's soul too accorrding how Lunarian hate Life for no reason so what does her soul's pure mean ?
Also According to Junko's dialogue in Reimu's Scenario

And behold!
This pristine spiritual force that rejects life and death!

What does it mean ? is it mean Her Soul can't take damage by Lunarian Weapon ? or There No State of life and death for her soul ? or Her Soul is " Pure "
So there No word for describe what is her species ? I'm so doubt

2 . What is Junko's really Purify Mean ? According to Junko Purify Clowpiece and Her Fairies Gang for raid Lunarian so if those Fairies got purify how is their soul ?
if ZUN said Her purify mean to bring back to godly state so what about Fairies Case who raid and capture Luna Capital in Touhou 15 ?


So that what I'm doubt about Junko if it out from topic too much I'll delete this and go make another topic about Junko instead Pls tell me if this out from topic too much

 

[Antvasima]

What LordGriffin has accepted can probably be applied.

 

[Bummel]

this is kinda out from topic but hey Hecatia Can you explain more about Junko's Species pls ? Everyone in Touhou Fan even ZUN still can't tell what's exactly Junko's Species...
According to Touhou 15 lore Junko keep trying to attack Lunarian at Lunar Captital But None of her try have been successful til she meet hecatia So there something I'm really wondering...

1 . Why Lunarian can't kill Junko ? I already know what you said in the at above But ZUN said Her soul are " pure " than Human and Youkai ? And I'm afriad more than Lunarian's soul too accorrding how Lunarian hate Life for no reason so what does her soul's pure mean ?
Also According to Junko's dialogue in Reimu's Scenario


What does it mean ? is it mean Her Soul can't take damage by Lunarian Weapon ? or There No State of life and death for her soul ? or Her Soul is " Pure "
So there No word for describe what is her species ? I'm so doubt

2 . What is Junko's really Purify Mean ? According to Junko Purify Clowpiece and Her Fairies Gang for raid Lunarian so if those Fairies got purify how is their soul ?
if ZUN said Her purify mean to bring back to godly state so what about Fairies Case who raid and capture Luna Capital in Touhou 15 ?


So that what I'm doubt about Junko if it out from topic too much I'll delete this and go make another topic about Junko instead Pls tell me if this out from topic too much

She is divine spirit /gods lol

Unlike most of 2hu god with avatar and "name" junko is basically existence without "name"

 

[Pixy]

She is divine spirit /gods lol

Unlike most of 2hu god with avatar and "name" junko is basically existence without "name"

Well I'm appreciate your answer But that make me doubt more....
Or I should Ignore about Her Species and Focus on 2nd Question ?

Also thx for your answer even it's made me more confuse

 

[Pixy]

She is divine spirit /gods lol

Unlike most of 2hu god with avatar and "name" junko is basically existence without "name"

You mean She exist like " Godly Nature " or She's Godly Nature right ?

 

[Bummel]

You mean She exist like " Godly Nature " or She's Godly Nature right ?

Kinda like that

 

[Bummel]

Fairy godly nature is something something life energy/form with their existance their bring life to a place and lunarian hate life (as in gensokyo/earth life)

 

[Pixy]

Fairy godly nature is something something life energy/form with their existance their bring life to a place and lunarian hate life (as in gensokyo/earth life)

Thx that clear my fairies in Touhou Lolk 15 question

 

[Pixy]

Kinda like that

You mean She Exist in state of Godly Nature !? The Stage of " Nameless " !?

Then how is different between " Non Godly Nature " and " Godly nature " ? ( I mean like Physical Body or how to damage her something like that )
don't worry I already read what hecatia wrote and that make me more confuse

 

[Bummel]

You mean She Exist in state of Godly Nature !? The Stage of " Nameless " !?

Then how is different between " Non Godly Nature " and " Godly nature " ? ( I mean like Physical Body or how to damage her something like that )
don't worry I already read what hecatia wrote and that make me more confuse

Basically she Conceptless now

 

[Pixy]

Basically she Conceptless now

You mean She's exist in " non - exist !? " or Exist in " nothingness " !?
This make me so confuse

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

Junko's purification is different than the "Purification of Evil" stereotype. Her ability to "Purify anything" leans more towards "Purifying one aspect from others", in which case, we know by 'names'. She used her ability on herself, to gain the "Sagacious Spirit" status by stripping her existence off from the 'names'.

She also used her ability to render Clownpiece as the embodiment of 'impurity', which was the main reason why Lunarians had a hard time to deal with. Not only on physical 'names', Junko used her ability on her hate and vengence towards Chang'e to render it eternal, too.

"Can bring stuff to their godly nature", means just stripping one from 'names', therefore bringing them to their godly, primordial state.

 

[Pixy]

Junko's purification is different than the "Purification of Evil" stereotype. Her ability to "Purify anything" leans more towards "Purifying one aspect from others", in which case, we know by 'names'. She used her ability on herself, to gain the "Sagacious Spirit" status by stripping her existence off from the 'names'.

She also used her ability to render Clownpiece as the embodiment of 'impurity', which was the main reason why Lunarians had a hard time to deal with. Not only on physical 'names', Junko used her ability on her hate and vengence towards Chang'e to render it eternal, too.

"Can bring stuff to their godly nature", means just stripping one from 'names', therefore bringing them to their godly, primordial state.

thx But I already know her abilities

I want to know what is exactly her species or how to call Nameless, Nothing , Conceptless of her species
Cuz Those 3 are Godly nature and She just make me having headache by Being like that so that all I can say

 

[Pixy]

Basically she Conceptless now

So easy to explain ( EtE ) She just make herself for being ( Godly Nature ) right ?

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Basically that.

 

[Pixy]

OK then I understand now So Basically that answer a lot of question about Touhou 15
That why She can keep attack lunarian without getting killed before she meet Hecatia and that why Lunarian's call Junko with full mouth " The Lunarian Enemy "
But NGL They deserve that Imagine Let's the Psychopath murderer who just shoot someone's Sun and Kill junko' son having a new wife.....
What the hell even Lunarian thinking !? Did they think like.......

" Oh I am Lunarian the Most Strongest Species in the entire Universe We are Number one !! We gonna Invade Gensokyo with our pround Leader ( Watutsuki Sisters ) then Kill Everyone in Gensokyo We are strongest !! No one can beat us !!

til someone's son just dead by Psychopath murderer and still living without go to jail and having a new wife......
That it's.... Even You reject life and death Look like You're still don't different from Human

 

[Antvasima]

What LordGriffin has accepted can probably be applied.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

I'm already working on that.
Btw, a minor addition:
Gods should have on their age remarked that they predates reality, and thus, are older than existence itself. Something like this

Age: Predates reality itself

Also if there are no more questions then I think we can now proceed with the changes and finally close this(?

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Also may someone can add me and @Weeeee to the list of supporters in the Touhou page?

 

[Pixy]

I'm already working on that.
Btw, a minor addition:
Gods should have on their age remarked that they predates reality, and thus, are older than existence itself. Something like this

Also if there are no more questions then I think we can now proceed with the changes and finally close this(?

Jesus Christ !! is that gonna make them 1 Billion years old + !? Well we just found who'll older than Eirin

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Ikr? Literally all gods has wrinkles.

 

[Pixy]

Ikr? Literally all gods has wrinkles.

Oh this is serious mate Don't call my waifu like that

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

If makes you feel better, that should affect Hecatia too (best milf), so we are in the same case here.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

If makes you feel better, that should affect Hecatia too (best milf), so we are in the same case here.

someone should change hecatia's pfp because FFS it looks horrible

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Tbh I would really like to use a fanart for the profiles, but idk if I'll be allowed to do that or not .

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

Tbh I would really like to use a fanart for the profiles, but idk if I'll be allowed to do that or not .

VFiS Hecatia.png

This file contains additional information, probably added from the digital camera or scanner used to create or digitize it.

en.touhouwiki.net

this one might be usable

 

[Pixy]

Tbh I would really like to use a fanart for the profiles, but idk if I'll be allowed to do that or not .

what about this !?

 

[Pixy]

Art from Hirasaka Makoto

 

[Orioreeem]

Blue hair suits her better then red honestly.

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Sorry, but I don't see any image ._.XD