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The Revival Of Tarouverse
- Thread starter RitsuØ1
- Start date
- Status
Godsatoshi23
He/Him- 907
- 943
Anyway, you will know when ultima replies.
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Ya, I will be notified here, no worries.
Rabbit2002
She/Her- 2,633
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????
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XDDDDD, rabbit denies this as well. Bro admit rabbit did nothing and said nothing, ur embarrassing urself.
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- Thread starter
- #206
Best argument of the year. No cap. Someone give this guy a medal/trophy. He deserves it.
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He refuted himself as well, “if you want to disagree, argue with ultima”, next line: I disagree with it.
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- #209
LMAO. I have never laughed this hard for months.
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- #211
Lol. Now, we just play the waiting game.
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Thank you for helping out, @Everything12 . Has anything been accepted in this thread, and is there anything left to discuss here?
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@Ultima_Reality will give his input, as he said yesterday. He is investigating it slowly.
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Took a bit.
Alright, so, I will start by saying that the Interchange Parallel World Theory being 5-D and Little Garden being 6-D at the same time doesn't seem to make much sense: Looking at the basic reasoning written out both on the blog and the OP, the Interchange Parallel World Theory would be Low 1-C because it is a collection of multiverses so large that the individual multiverses are comparatively "finite" and the size of particles next to the total. And then, Little Garden is a level of infinity above that for... dwarfing multiverses and treating them as particles? From what I see, the same statement is being used to quantify distinct parts of the cosmology that are posited as an infinity apart from one another, which obviously doesn't work.
That being said: If Little Garden encompasses infinite multiverses to the point that they are piled up as elementary particles inside of it, then, yes, it is a level of infinity above said multiverses. Low 1-C should be an okay rating for it, if that statement is correctly interpreted. Given that they directly associate the number of multiverses with how incomprehensibly big Little Garden is, I will assume it is. (Though the translation is honestly not the best, so, I can't vouch for being able to interpret it too well)
As for the topic of whether or not Digits 3-through-1 actually are a hierarchy of infinities, the statements that have been put forth to support that are the following:
Neither of those inherently prove that higher Digits are a level of infinity above lower ones; they could be used as supporting evidence, at best, and in fact this tidbit in the blog concerns me greatly on that front:
If the impact that their true forms could cause on lower worlds can be avoided if they just reduce their power by half, then obviously, the difference between layers is not infinite, much less uncountably infinite, here. Furthermore, the OP and the blog both claim that 3-Digit beings are the ones who see the infinite multiverses as being just a stack of particles, and yet the latter says this:
Which corresponds to this excerpt:
So, needless to say, I am very confused on that regard. Explanation would be appreciated.
Another thing I've seen being used to push for the idea that there is a level of transcendence between each Digit is this quote:
Taken as something that applies to the verse's cosmology, then, yeah, it obviously would be a level of transcendence above whatever it scales to. The descriptor of "transcendence" is very clearly meant to convey the superiority that Brahman holds over other things, ontop of it being described as "the highest reality" and the ground on which all space, time and being (And everything beyond those) resides. There is really no feasible way in which you could rate it as being on the same level as the things it encompasses.
However, there is the issue that, although the blog claims that 3-Digit Gods are Brahman, it doesn't seem to take much effort in actually giving much evidence to prove that, from what I can gather. In fact, "Brahman" seems to be a thing associated with 2-Digit Gods:
So, on the whole, each Digit is more powerful than the last, for sure, but the only gap that can be called a level of infinity among them, as far as I see, is the one between 3-Digit and 2-Digit. There doesn't seem to be much information on 1-Digit Gods, so, I don't think there is anything to say that they transcend 2-Digit Gods in the same way those transcend the rest, or anything.
Then there's Another Cosmology, which allegedly is a layer above the rest of the verse for this reason:
I don't particularly understand the logic here, but, regardless, the excerpts don't seem to support it:
This seems to be saying that "Another Cosmology" is just the principle of there being multiple different planes of reality operating by different mythological and religious settings, of which Little Garden (And the multiverses it encompasses) is just one. They seem to exist side-by-side with Little Garden, not to be infinitely higher than it, which is more than evidenced by how it is referred to as being among the "Outer Universes." Moreover, an instance of it (A cosmology being compressed within a tool and used as a weapon) is also stated to be something the Gods achieved by manipulating the truth of the universe, which in this case is Brahman:
So the idea that it is something infinitely transcendent over all the rest is odd, to say the least. I'll put the weirdness that is Brahman being simultaneously associated with Another Cosmology and with 2-Digit Gods to the side, for now.
Overall, the verse is at the very least Low 1-C, for sure, based on how Brahman is described. What I want explanation on, for the moment, is:
Alright, so, I will start by saying that the Interchange Parallel World Theory being 5-D and Little Garden being 6-D at the same time doesn't seem to make much sense: Looking at the basic reasoning written out both on the blog and the OP, the Interchange Parallel World Theory would be Low 1-C because it is a collection of multiverses so large that the individual multiverses are comparatively "finite" and the size of particles next to the total. And then, Little Garden is a level of infinity above that for... dwarfing multiverses and treating them as particles? From what I see, the same statement is being used to quantify distinct parts of the cosmology that are posited as an infinity apart from one another, which obviously doesn't work.
That being said: If Little Garden encompasses infinite multiverses to the point that they are piled up as elementary particles inside of it, then, yes, it is a level of infinity above said multiverses. Low 1-C should be an okay rating for it, if that statement is correctly interpreted. Given that they directly associate the number of multiverses with how incomprehensibly big Little Garden is, I will assume it is. (Though the translation is honestly not the best, so, I can't vouch for being able to interpret it too well)
As for the topic of whether or not Digits 3-through-1 actually are a hierarchy of infinities, the statements that have been put forth to support that are the following:
Neither of those inherently prove that higher Digits are a level of infinity above lower ones; they could be used as supporting evidence, at best, and in fact this tidbit in the blog concerns me greatly on that front:
If the impact that their true forms could cause on lower worlds can be avoided if they just reduce their power by half, then obviously, the difference between layers is not infinite, much less uncountably infinite, here. Furthermore, the OP and the blog both claim that 3-Digit beings are the ones who see the infinite multiverses as being just a stack of particles, and yet the latter says this:
Which corresponds to this excerpt:
So, needless to say, I am very confused on that regard. Explanation would be appreciated.
Another thing I've seen being used to push for the idea that there is a level of transcendence between each Digit is this quote:
Taken as something that applies to the verse's cosmology, then, yeah, it obviously would be a level of transcendence above whatever it scales to. The descriptor of "transcendence" is very clearly meant to convey the superiority that Brahman holds over other things, ontop of it being described as "the highest reality" and the ground on which all space, time and being (And everything beyond those) resides. There is really no feasible way in which you could rate it as being on the same level as the things it encompasses.
However, there is the issue that, although the blog claims that 3-Digit Gods are Brahman, it doesn't seem to take much effort in actually giving much evidence to prove that, from what I can gather. In fact, "Brahman" seems to be a thing associated with 2-Digit Gods:
So, on the whole, each Digit is more powerful than the last, for sure, but the only gap that can be called a level of infinity among them, as far as I see, is the one between 3-Digit and 2-Digit. There doesn't seem to be much information on 1-Digit Gods, so, I don't think there is anything to say that they transcend 2-Digit Gods in the same way those transcend the rest, or anything.
Then there's Another Cosmology, which allegedly is a layer above the rest of the verse for this reason:
I don't particularly understand the logic here, but, regardless, the excerpts don't seem to support it:
This seems to be saying that "Another Cosmology" is just the principle of there being multiple different planes of reality operating by different mythological and religious settings, of which Little Garden (And the multiverses it encompasses) is just one. They seem to exist side-by-side with Little Garden, not to be infinitely higher than it, which is more than evidenced by how it is referred to as being among the "Outer Universes." Moreover, an instance of it (A cosmology being compressed within a tool and used as a weapon) is also stated to be something the Gods achieved by manipulating the truth of the universe, which in this case is Brahman:
So the idea that it is something infinitely transcendent over all the rest is odd, to say the least. I'll put the weirdness that is Brahman being simultaneously associated with Another Cosmology and with 2-Digit Gods to the side, for now.
Overall, the verse is at the very least Low 1-C, for sure, based on how Brahman is described. What I want explanation on, for the moment, is:
- How exactly does the statement about infinite multiverses being reduced to the size of particles apply both to Little Garden and to the Interchange Parallel World Theory?
- Where exactly does 3-Digit Gods being the ones that see the multiverses as particles come from? Especially with the claim that they themselves can't even mess with this structure without being reduced to the size of particles themselves? (Whatever that's supposed to mean)
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My interpretation for this part, is that in the explanation 3-digit gods interact with the universes by dividing their existence between each one, and to interact with every single one of the universe's at once would require splitting their existence to such an extent that each part would be comparable to particles.
And I guess probability of existence is how likely they are to exist or something, judging by the name, and so to have one so low is a bad thing.
Just as a particle is so small we can't naturally observe an individual particles, to someone observing every single unvierse at once the individual universes would appear even smaller than that.
And Little Garden is designed to do such a thing, observing and guiding all of these universes despite their being so many that each individual one being but less than a particles in comparison to the whole.
At least that's how I've interpreted it.
PhantomØ4
He/Him- 2,107
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Divine Spirits don’t exactly divide themselves, they already have a density of existence and manifestation across parallel universes. It’s really more verse mechanics, so sadly I’ll have to drop more quotes.
The probability of existence across worlds when interfering with them is a long story relating to yet another Paradox of Little Garden relating with Divine Spirits low probability manifestation across outer worlds with Creationism or not Creationism and Humanity’s need to save itself through its release of its Fate value.
TL;DR: It is a limiter verse mechanic given rise to by Paradoxes such as the Omnipotence Paradox which makes beings well capable of altering creation as they like not be able to do so.
Just wanted to clarify on that first.
PhantomØ4
He/Him- 2,107
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Ah, actually, that's pretty wack that It instantly clicked in my mind the minute someone pointed that detail out like that. I wish that had been the point before; be it by an opposer or a supporter. Well, anyways, thank you for reasoning there, it makes total sense.
In such sense you would say that the full interchanging parallel world theory structure is on the same scale of existence as Little Garden (lower bound), no? I would like clarification on that as beforehand it had been circular logic.
This is probably just a miscommunication as there is a sort of broken telephone game going on when someone that is not Ritsu, in this case me, wants to add something to the OP. You are correct, Brahaman beings start on the 2-Digit Domain and not anywhere lower.
The point at which outer gates have to be used and that which they begin to be called as higher layers of the world, only begins at the 3rd Domain which does have transcendence over the previous domain so far. Then on the same kind of higher world with the same outer gates we have the 2-Digit Domain and 3-Digit Domain difference which would go from Xth Dimension to the Yth Dimension. Nothing changing form one to another and then have the 1-Digit Domain, with a precedence set of these same "higher" layers of the onion that is Little Garden I don't see it as unreasonable to see the precedence there and go by it, if not for a solid rating to give a possibly but do let me know your thoughts.
Beyond that. For the 1-Digit domain aside from the power to end all stories of End Emptiness, which is admittedly vague, we have it (End Emptiness) within the 1-Digit domain viewing the rest of the cosmology, including the higher layers like the would be (whatever) dimensional infinite reality of the Brahman as part of [World Inside A Box] and Shiroyasha employing a power on the 1-Digit Domain scale could do the same.
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Nah,I mean you can send a private message to discuss/communicate with Ultima about this verse <(“) my english is a bit dumb, hope you understand. Anyway I want to apologize to Rabbit and Ultima for bringing their words into the discussion that they didn't say this(I mistakenly remember Rabbit saying, I feel so sorry for Rabbit) <(“) I guess I'll get out of thread. As for my opinion, Tarouverse Solid 2A-posssible 5D with LG.
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Do you have evidence that it is actually 1-Digits or 1-Digit powers?
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It seems like Little Garden's cosmological evidence was used for the point which would be wrong Interchanging Parallel World's evidence.
I still could see Little Garden being 5-D, from the points that infinite universes seem like particles to it.
3-Digits: I think 5-D; there doesn't seem to be enough elaborations for a higher dimensional existence. From what I read, the evidence for Brahman's nature was only mentioned for 2-Digit.
2-Digits being 6-D, from the nature of Brahman being backed up with more evidence, unlike the last blog and CRT.
1-Digits don't look to elaborate that much, either.
PhantomØ4
He/Him- 2,107
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Yeah. Here’s [Last Embryo] belonging to the 1-Digit Domain
Here’s Dystopia Being a [Last Embryo] just like Winds of Decadence in the scan before.
Here’s host master paradox game (the second scan) belonging to the Last Embryo domain.
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I assume Ultima need to come back since he dropped some questions.
Godsatoshi23
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Yeah and elizhaa also dropped some question about 1-digits which Phantom04 already replied.
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Hopes no one is really saying that 1-Digits having any r>f relationship as the translation and context is really bad and does not imply in this direction
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Show me, just show me, that the translation is bad because my thread includes Japanese scan to back it up. I hate when people nitpicking my translation when all they said was just hurr durr mtl hurr durr bad but prove nothing why it is bad
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Why would this grant any r>f relationship?
Translation being bad in my context refers not to the fact that all translations are bad or terrible, rather the way he added “Tales” in the name but then never clarify it is actually bad.
I said translation is abominable since it did not even clarify “Tales” part properly and looks more as it is added for no reasons. Since the whole context does not really refer to it.
This is based on name. It never ever clarified that he views worlds as tales. And it has never been mentioned in the story before.
Translation being bad in my context refers not to the fact that all translations are bad or terrible, rather the way he added “Tales” in the name but then never clarify it is actually bad.
I said translation is abominable since it did not even clarify “Tales” part properly and looks more as it is added for no reasons. Since the whole context does not really refer to it.
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Facepalm
Have you ever picked up a single Japanese Light Novel in your life?
IT-IS-CALLED-FURIGANA.
FOR-****-SAKE!
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Ya I did, but English translation
Did not really clarify that「 Authority to end all worlds (tales)」is an ability name.
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And what's wrong with the English translation? Do you even know the purpose of those Furigana? Or Katakana?
〝退廃の風(エンド・エンプテイネス)〟はその最たる一例だ。あれは全ての全能者と全権者に〝全ての世界(モノガタリ)を終わらせる権利〟を与えた霊体だからな」
See this shit?
モノガタリ = Monogatari, it means "stories", or "tales".
Next time, think before you comment first, okay?
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Again, my significance is that it is written as a name and not as a clarification or r>f relationship. Also, I actually clarified what is my point with “translation” but you again misunderstood it, so I don't much care repeating my point.
No one talked about translation being bad as in the literal sense, rather as in the context that leaves many interpretations.
No one talked about translation being bad as in the literal sense, rather as in the context that leaves many interpretations.
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Again, is there any other context except this that refers to worlds as tales in the perspective view of 1-Digits? Because the current one did not clarify properly which worlds either.
Even @Everything12 shares the same opinion, as this does not grant any r>f relationship
Even @Everything12 shares the same opinion, as this does not grant any r>f relationship
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But.... that's the way the sentence should be translated? What are you smoking here, bro?
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Alright, I will use “rendition of the context” instead of “translation” if this causes conflicts and confusion in my sentences
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I'm not here to debate or anything because i already quit this franchise. But i just wanna say fan translation is not perfect, that's why my thread have both Japanese raws and English translation. Also Mondaiji's volume 11 and 12 are translated by Frozen, one of the best LN translator. If you don't like my translation then go find a new one, simple.
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Apologies, but I did not tend to offend “translation” as in literal sense, rather talking about the usage of terms that came out of nowhere except in this context and also in a name of ability/authority that leaves many options to choose. Tho, it is my fault for not clarifying it better.
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Just waiting for Ultima and Elizhaa to reply.
Great argument. Let's ban all English translations and rely every single feats on RAWs then. RAW > Fan Translation > Official Translation ≥ MTL.
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Second person who actually did not read my post properly. But happens :3
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