The Ghost of the Uchiha versus Monkey Boy

[Godernet]

Actually looking at it again TSO might not even effect Luffy given Buso is resistant to Deconstruction (Shuu's DF.) and EE (Kage-Kage no Mi.)

since when has anyone resisted Moria's fruit taking their shadow and being EE'd by the sun with Haki

 

[Kidkinsey]

So yeah basically he can evade em but he can't actually touch em.

Luffy's senses should allow him to withdraw his attack before he touches the TSO's like how he did with Mihawk. He tried attacking but then foresaw what would happen and stopped his attack last second to save his arms.

Most likely would be a lot more than "a few organs." tbh. Ryu's explosion radius is pretty big.

They may work with gataling but if he commits to something like grabbing madara or goes into his giant form I don't see how he'd get out the way in time

Has ryou ever like exploded a person's insides? I know it causes internal damage but when he hit kizaru in the head shouldn't that have killed him then? Unless he hasn't use it post kaido

Luffy just gonna Guy them balls and hit him with a massive fist. Guy almost killed Madara from his hit and Luffy can hit him more times than Guy did.

Luffy FRA & FRB

Well yes if madara stands still and allows luffys ultimate attack to hit him madara can possibly lose. Madara regened like 2 pages later though lol. Be again luffys ultimate attack is a GIANT EE target

 

[Arkenis]

Well yes if madara stands still and allows luffys ultimate attack to hit him madara can possibly lose. Madara regened like 2 pages later though lol. Be again luffys ultimate attack is a GIANT EE target

Madara isn't usually known to dodge attacks, especially not this form. Or I could be wrong, show me when Madara decided to dodge a giant attack in his Juubi form and not take it head on like he did with Guy.

 

[speedster352]

Since it's been on his profile.

There literally isn't anything special about Naruto EE. It's not some type of enhanced erasure or anything conceptual in nature. It's standard EE, which Luffy can resist.


Prove that EE in Naruto is something special in comparison to standard EE.

Could you explain how it works though?

 

[speedster352]

Here is what if found The original owner of the shadow will be forced to remain in darkness, as they will vaporize if hit by sunlight without their shadow.[18] Being unable to exist in light, the original owner is also unable to cast any sort of reflection and is also unable to be photographed.[19] It is worth noting that while being exposed to daylight after having one's shadows extracted usually means instant death, victims who had their shadows extracted for some time can actually last a little more under the sun than those who have had their shadows taken very recently; during the final battle against Moria, the shadowless Straw Hat members instantly had their upper bodies disintegrated while the Rolling Pirates actually lasted a little longer.
Turns out the whole EE thing is just vaporization.

 

[Arkenis]

Here is what if found The original owner of the shadow will be forced to remain in darkness, as they will vaporize if hit by sunlight without their shadow.[18] Being unable to exist in light, the original owner is also unable to cast any sort of reflection and is also unable to be photographed.[19] It is worth noting that while being exposed to daylight after having one's shadows extracted usually means instant death, victims who had their shadows extracted for some time can actually last a little more under the sun than those who have had their shadows taken very recently; during the final battle against Moria, the shadowless Straw Hat members instantly had their upper bodies disintegrated while the Rolling Pirates actually lasted a little longer.
Turns out the whole EE thing is just vaporization.

Next time read the images that are given from the character with the ability.

 

[speedster352]

Next time read the images that are given from the character with the ability.

1 it’s limited it could just be vaporization with clever wording. In a DS it’s said Muzan cannot exist in the sunlight so does that mean sunlight can erase his existence?
2. It’s only based on one physical form the TSB affects soul and yin and Yang.
Also TSB have molecular manipulation which is above baseline.

 

[Arkenis]

1 it’s limited it could just be vaporization with clever wording. In a DS it’s said Muzan cannot exist in the sunlight so does that mean sunlight can erase his existence?
2. It’s only based on one physical form the TSB affects soul and yin and Yang.
Also TSB have molecular manipulation which is above baseline.

1. make a crt if you think its only vap. The translation given seem to suggest otherwise.
2. Read the pages more. Madness Manipulation, Mind Manipulation and Soul Manipulation with Willpower (Through sheer willpower, he can resist losing his mind when absorbing shadows through the Kage Kage no Mi. Shadows belonging to strong willed people are difficult to control, allowing them to rebel against Moria's pact which usually immediately submits a shadow to his supremacy and orders. Spiritual energy is contained within one's soul/life; this energy is represented by the fighting power or the Haki itself. Those with strong souls, which are homologous to shadows, resist the effects of Brook's soul manipulation),

And molecular doesn't matter when its already ee.

 

[LordGinSama]

since when has anyone resisted Moria's fruit taking their shadow and being EE'd by the sun with Haki

According to the page. "Can block out all devil fruit abilities."

1 it’s limited it could just be vaporization with clever wording. In a DS it’s said Muzan cannot exist in the sunlight so does that mean sunlight can erase his existence?

This is an ass comparison. It's EE, not vape.

2. It’s only based on one physical form the TSB affects soul and yin and Yang.

Shadows are literally reflections of one's soul and Moria can still effect them.

Also TSB have molecular manipulation which is above baseline.

Pretty sure Shuu's Deconstruction is atomic which is the same as TSO.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Madara isn't usually known to dodge attacks, especially not this form. Or I could be wrong, show me when Madara decided to dodge a giant attack in his Juubi form and not take it head on like he did with Guy.

If madara dosen't dodge an attack its because he wants to flex like show the kage that he has hashirama cells or because he can absorb an attack. The "biggest " attack madara faced was the night Guy and he literally couldn't dodge
He loves battle but he's not hidan

 

[speedster352]

According to the page. "Can block out all devil fruit abilities."

Wouldn’t it just block out his ability to manipulate the shadow in the first place how would that mean they resist EE by default? If it hasn’t been done it can’t be used plain and simple.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Pretty sure Shuu's Deconstruction is atomic which is the same as TSO.

Haki itself is also a forcefield around you and not matter, which would counter that anyway

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Wouldn’t it just block out his ability to manipulate the shadow in the first place how would that mean they resist EE by default?

That's only if they used haki to begin with, when getting their shadow taken. The existence erasure is apart of it's devil fruit ability

だが、影を抜かれた者は直射日光に当たると消滅してしまう。

However, those whose shadows are pulled out will disappear when exposed to direct sunlight.

 

[speedster352]

Haki itself is also a forcefield around you and not matter, which would counter that anyway

What makes you think a simple forcefield will protect you from the truth seeker orbs. Naruto had Kurama clock and kurama avatars which are all forcefield yet he was still in danger from truth seeker orbs.

 

[LordGinSama]

What makes you think a simple forcefield will protect you from the truth seeker orbs. Naruto had Kurama clock and kurama avatars which are all forcefield yet he was still in danger from truth seeker orbs.

Kurama's cloak isn't a real force-field. It's made of Chakra, which contains matter. Haki's force fields are different as they aren't made of matter, instead it's a projection of the user's will so there'd be nothing to deconstruct.

 

[speedster352]

Thats if they used haki to begin with when getting their shadow taken, the existence erasure is apart of the devil fruit's ability

This doesn’t work it’s just speculation if haki stop the shadow from being pulled in the first place you just resist shadow absorption not the EE aspect. If it hasn’t happened it can’t be used. If I am wrong please provide scans.

 

[speedster352]

Kurama's cloak isn't a real force-field. It's made of Chakra, which contains matter. Haki's force fields are different as they aren't made of matter, instead it's a projection of the user's will so there'd be nothing to deconstruct.

Obito said something about his sword of nunoboku(aka TSB) affecting the soul and willpower.Even the diety gates can affect someone’s willpower. Also the TSB are made up of yin and Yang which contains willpower. So haki isn’t helping here.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This doesn’t work it’s just speculation if haki stop the shadow from being pulled in the first place you just resist shadow absorption not the EE aspect.

Law didn't use haki and got affected by a devil fruit, he then was able to cancel the effects after getting affected

Would be the same how they stopped getting erased when having defeated moria

 

[LordGinSama]

Obito said something about his sword of nunoboku(aka TSB) affecting the soul and willpower.

That's only for the erasure. You can deconstruct souls and will since they don't contain matter to begin with.

Even the diety gates can affect someone’s willpower.

Good for you.

Also the TSB are made up of yin and Yang which contains willpower. So haki isn’t helping here.

Again, irrelevant to my point. I'm talking about the deconstruction, not it's erasure.

 

[Kachon123]

Lmao. TSOs aren't deconstructing Luffy's Haki Emission.

As for Limbo clones, Luffy's future sight would allow him to know where/how to dodge their attacks, or just use his Kenbun to link to the senses of the Limbo clones, allowing him to essentially see them. On top of that, the clones can only be active for so long, so this isn't a very viable wincon.

 

[Kidkinsey]

He can summon them right back instantly so it's not really a drawback

Iirc in film red they couldn't see into the other dimension they had to link to somebody on the other side and see through their eyes. Luffy has nobody in the limbo dimension to assist him with that

 

[Kachon123]

Luffy has nobody in the limbo dimension to assist him with that

The clones themselves.... like I said in my original post.

 

[That_moron2]

It still does not exceed EE. It may be better if you comment knowing that tso is not just an energy basis, but also contains abstract concepts such as yin and yang.

Containing concepts =/= erasing concepts.

Under the protection of Limbo Clones and Tso, if Madara feels that the opponent's statistics are superior to his own, he will use genjutsu and defeat them in a single attack.

Limbo clones aren't protecting him at all. Luffy doesn't need to look into Madara's eyes either. He can precog, see that Madara has won and then not look and rely on his sensory abilities to finish the job. And again, Madara won't get a chance to shield himself via TSOs because he in character uses that after taking a hit because Madara enjoys fighting, and auto-assumes that he’s stronger than his opponent.

Why would luffy randomly guess to close his eyes? You'd have to argue at the start of the fight he looks into the future and deduced seeing the light would instantly gg him

Yes. When he’s calm Luffy passively sees the future. And Luffy’s mind in Gear 5 is constantly in a good state.

he can have great control over his body but madara can control all the orbs at will and even transmute their size and shape

Things Luffy can also do.

something like luffy grabbing madara kizaru style or using gataling etc would leave him exposed and at risk. God forbid used tried to use bajarang

Bajrang impacts without touching. If Madara is surrounded by TSO Luffy won’t grab him, and if they are in their neutral state Luffy zeroes in on Madara and hits him.

Why would it fold him? Obito got lightning bladed and through his heart and shrugged it off and his regen at that point is way below juudaras. Sasuke literally cut madara in half and madara kept it pushing. A few organs being damaged won't slow him down in the slightest

This is because they can regenerate. Madara won’t be able to regen even if the pain isn’t enough to keep him down, the internal bleeding will.

 

[Kidkinsey]

The clones themselves.... like I said in my original post.

Sir why would the clones allow that and katakuri said its only for a instant

Yes. When he’s calm Luffy passively sees the future. And Luffy’s mind in Gear 5 is constantly in a good state.

Things Luffy can also do.

Bajrang impacts without touching. If Madara is surrounded by TSO Luffy won’t grab him, and if they are in their neutral state Luffy zeroes in on Madara and hits him.

This is because they can regenerate. Madara won’t be able to regen even if the pain isn’t enough to keep him down, the internal bleeding will.

He definitely dosen't passively see the future it's an ability you have to use. Regardless the future would just show him in a comatose state no reason he'd assume the light is what would gg him

He can do those things but a single touch will erase him. I'm not saying luffy will try to grab madara if he's wrapped in tso. I'm saying if luffy grabs madara specifically in his giant form then he is vulnerable to madara sending one of the TSO to EE him. Same for the BG that's just a giant target madara can erase

Madaras regen isn't supernatural its from his biology also internal bleeding wouldn't really hinder him because he has exterme pain tolerance since the sussano huets every cell in the body. He also knows medical ninjutsu so if he regen is nulled he can just heal the damage through other means

 

[Kachon123]

Sir why would the clones allow that

There's literally nothing they can do to stop Luffy seeing from their POV.

and katakuri said its only for a instant

And when we saw it happening, it was for that for an "instant." That's clearly just a figure of speech.

 

[Kachon123]

He definitely dosen't passively see the future it's an ability you have to use.

Kenbunshoku is used subconsciously.

Madaras regen isn't supernatural its from his biology

How does it work?

 

[LordGinSama]

How does it work?

Absorbing the God tree or sum shit like that. I wouldn't necessarily call it supernatural since it's based on his body Absorbing Hashi cells and the God Tree or something like that. Seems pretty blatantly biological to me.

 

[That_moron2]

He can do those things but a single touch will erase him. I'm not saying luffy will try to grab madara if he's wrapped in tso. I'm saying if luffy grabs madara specifically in his giant form then he is vulnerable to madara sending one of the TSO to EE him. Same for the BG that's just a giant target madara can erase

Then Luffy won't use those. He has other methods of attack, like say y'know... punching him?

Madaras regen isn't supernatural its from his biology

This is true

also internal bleeding wouldn't really hinder him because he has exterme pain tolerance since the sussano huets every cell in the body.

It doesn't matter if he can tolerate the pain, if enough damage is dealt he physically can't move.

He also knows medical ninjutsu so if he regen is nulled he can just heal the damage through other means

Since when?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I'm saying if luffy grabs madara specifically in his giant form then he is vulnerable to madara sending one of the TSO to EE him.

Luffy has no reason to do that at all, he only ever did that so his opponent didn't escape and go after his friends... He also instantly switch his body proportions to huge and base

Madaras regen isn't supernatural its from his biology also internal bleeding wouldn't really hinder him because he has exterme pain tolerance since the sussano huets every cell in the body. He also knows medical ninjutsu so if he regen is nulled he can just heal the damage through other means

Haki negates accelerated natural/biological regen... So if his regen comes from accelarating/enhancing is base natural regen, it gets negated

 

[OhMika]

Voting Luffy FRA

 

[speedster352]

Haki negates accelerated natural/biological regen... So if his regen comes from accelarating/enhancing is base natural regen, it gets negated

That’s not how his regeneration works it’s purely biological and provided by ten tails/ god tree. We are arguing in circles at this point limbo clones, TSB, Chibaku tensei all keep luffy busy long enough for Madara to fly up and rip off his horn and that’s gg. My vote stay with Madara.

 

[LordGinSama]

Need a Tot Musica profile already so I can say he solo's nard.

 

[karo_senpaii]

I have never seen a thread with so much abilities for a character that just isn't on his profile. This is laughable

 

[LordGinSama]

I have never seen a thread with so much abilities for a character that just isn't on his profile. This is laughable

Such as? I'd like if you could elaborate rather than claiming random shit since Buso Haki has resistance to both EE and Deconstruction.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Actually looking at it again TSO might not even effect Luffy given Buso is resistant to Deconstruction (Shuu's DF.) and EE (Kage-Kage no Mi.)

Luffy is not getting resistance to EE. That's not how you get resistance. Mora takes their shadow and it makes them get erased because no one can survive without the shadow. The only person that got resistance is mora itself. Haki will not prevent luffy from getting erased. It might prevent his shadow from being removed I.e resisting the devil fruit but that's a different thing entirely.
Being resistant would mean if luffy shadow was taking by mora he'd be absolutely fine. Which is just not the case. Think of it like a magical sword produces fire. In this case the magical sword is mora fruit and fire is the effect. If your powers negate the sword and make it unable to produce fire. You're not resistant to the effects of said sword I.e fire resistant because you didn't even get hit by the fire. So thus is wrong and definitely not on his profile.

Luffy negates regeneration up to Mid; likely Mid-High so yes, yes he can.

Luffy has cosmic awareness, telepathy,

Outside of IT Madara doesn't really use it that much. Madara has to fly up to use IT and Luffy will chase him regardless of if he knows what's coming. Also only 3 layers are currently accepted, which is inferior to Luffy's resistance though I won't die on that hill.

The cosmic awareness is that he shared vision with other people's eyes. That's is in no way helping his see limbo. He can't also sense or touch them .

Madara's clones aren't going to be of much use at all here even if Luffy can't hit them. They don't have TSOs or any bladed weapons so they aren't harming Luffy or even slowing him down since he has far higher lifting strength (Class Y vs Class G).

That's cool and all but but they would continue to be a shield that blocks luffy and still won't take damage.

Luffy can transmit haki through them.

They don't do that ever in canon even if they can. All Luffy needs is one punch to take Madara down.

He can't transmit haki through them. Susanoo which is the embodiment of spirit also got erased by a tso. The moment haki comes in contact it
with it, it gets erased

1. make a crt if you think its only vap. The translation given seem to suggest otherwise.
2. Read the pages more. Madness Manipulation, Mind Manipulation and Soul Manipulation with Willpower (Through sheer willpower, he can resist losing his mind when absorbing shadows through the Kage Kage no Mi. Shadows belonging to strong willed people are difficult to control, allowing them to rebel against Moria's pact which usually immediately submits a shadow to his supremacy and orders. Spiritual energy is contained within one's soul/life; this energy is represented by the fighting power or the Haki itself. Those with strong souls, which are homologous to shadows, resist the effects of Brook's soul manipulation),

And molecular doesn't matter when its already ee.

The faq quite has a section where for willpower baed resistance you have to prove how it would work in cross verse matches or else it just doesn't.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Such as? I'd like if you could elaborate rather than claiming random shit since Buso Haki has resistance to both EE and Deconstruction.

Better still when you make claims like this that people are not familiar with and somehow can't find on the haki page mind putting a link of where it got accepted?

 

[LordGinSama]

Luffy is not getting resistance to EE.

I think there's definitely some confusion here which I'll explain.

Better still when you make claims like this that people are not familiar with and somehow can't find on the haki page mind putting a link of where it got accepted?

The Haki page is pretty odd admittedly since it doesn't list each individual resistance it grants. Currently it's just listed as "being able to block out all Devil Fruit abilities."

I'd actually agree with you that this makes it incredibly difficult for people who aren't familiar with One Piece to understand properly. Awhile ago I suggested listing everything Haki is resistant to instead of "all devil fruit abilities." Since the latter is vague as **** but ultimately I was out voted. Imo the page should be updated to make it easier for those who aren't familiar with the verse to understand what resistances they actually have.

 

[Arkenis]

The faq quite has a section where for willpower baed resistance you have to prove how it would work in cross verse matches or else it just doesn't.

That's supernatural willpower you're referring to, Haki is different. "Spiritual energy is contained within one's soul/life; this energy is represented by the fighting power or the Haki itself. Those with strong souls, which are homologous to shadows, resist the effects of Brook's soul manipulation"

 

[SlendVeny]

Absorbing the God tree or sum shit like that. I wouldn't necessarily call it supernatural since it's based on his body

Kaidou's regen is based on his body, as is the regen of Ancient Zoans.

 

[karo_senpaii]

That's supernatural willpower you're referring to, Haki is different. "Spiritual energy is contained within one's soul/life; this energy is represented by the fighting power or the Haki itself. Those with strong souls, which are homologous to shadows, resist the effects of Brook's soul manipulation"

You're actually wrong. It is not supernatural willpower but just "willlpower". Oh wait so now spiritual energy is involved? If that's true then madara would just be straight up immune to luffy haki based attacks