Two redheads who are the main character's tough rivals are fighting

[Kachon123]

It's that BUT it also functions as short range teleportation sometimes

So is it teleportation or not?

 

[Arcker123]

He can basically make mochi be in the air and can move it around

Could he make enough Mochi to smother someone purely from the air

 

[That_moron2]

I didn't even bother with 6 since it's such a non-factor.

 

[That_moron2]

So is it teleportation or not?

Its not. He's making shit up.

 

[Kidkinsey]

So is it teleportation or not?

Short range yes I think slayer had a crt for it. But even on the profiles it says the jutsu can be used even if the target is restrained, pain did it to jiraiya when he couldn't move

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Could he make enough Mochi to smother someone purely from the air

I mean... Yes... That same scan it's like more than 10 times luffy's height

 

[Kachon123]

Short range yes I think slayer had a crt for it. But even on the profiles it says the jutsu can be used even if the target is restrained, pain did it to jiraiya when he couldn't move

There's a difference between being restrained and being inside of a giant solid block.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Same recycled points. I vote katakuri. See y'all later

 

[Keeweed]

I’ve noticed Zoro’s profile doesn’t have a scan for his lifting strength, and they aren’t Class P yet either. Though to clarify I know that’s just the profile being bad, I just mean it’ll be good for those to see those updated for both versus so this thread actually works.

However I just want to say Luffy broke the strings with ap not lifting strength. And using that as an argument would be very weird since it would lead to multiple 6-Bs being inferior to the cage and have it that many of the 6-Cs have higher lifting strength. That bird cage was hilariously inconsistent.

 

[Arcker123]

I mean... Yes... That same scan it's like more than 10 times luffy's height

Yeah but that’s not necessarily the Mochi he uses against base Luffy. When smothering somebody like Nagato, he’d be using tons of mochi to bury somebody. Could he do something like that mid air.

 

[That_moron2]

However I just want to say Luffy broke the strings with ap not lifting strength. And using that as an argument would be very weird since it would lead to multiple 6-Bs being inferior to the cage and have it that many of the 6-Cs have higher lifting strength. That bird cage was hilariously inconsistent.

Its LS on the profiles, and G4 Luffy should have greater ls than Zoro story wise anyway.

 

[That_moron2]

Same recycled points. I vote katakuri. See y'all later

 

[Keeweed]

I mean, I absolutely agree with that, just not for the bird cage and I just wish the scan was there. I don’t doubt it, I just mean it would be nice.

 

[Kachon123]

Zoro’s profile doesn’t have a scan for his lifting strength

 

[Keeweed]

Thanks, my phone isn’t loading it well right now, but it is good to have the scans.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yeah but that’s not necessarily the Mochi he uses against base Luffy. When smothering somebody like Nagato, he’d be using tons of mochi to bury somebody. Could he do something like that mid air.

Hmm? That's the same sticky mochi what you mean?

If he can punch why wouldn't he be able to make a huge fist, grab him and bury him under it?

 

[Arcker123]

Hmm? That's the same sticky mochi what you mean?

If he can punch why wouldn't he be able to make a huge fist, grab him and bury him under it?

Because you can’t exactly bury somebody in the air. The burial Katakuri uses focuses on crushing somebody to the ground, which is less effective against flight and the substitution jutsu would allow Nagato to amp and avoid being completely submerged.

 

[Kachon123]

Because you can’t exactly bury somebody in the air. The burial Katakuri uses focuses on crushing somebody to the ground

Your point was that the burial would be hard to pull off due to Nagato being in the air (which from what I know is out of character but w/e). If Katakuri wants to bury Nagato, why wouldn't Katakuri fully cover him in Mochi and then bring him to the ground to finish the burial?

 

[Kachon123]

By the way, @Keeweed, are you voting?

 

[Arcker123]

Your point was that the burial would be hard to pull off due to Nagato being in the air (which from what I know is out of character but w/e).

.

Nagato uses his bird to fly around and attack with summons. That’s what he did when he was Edo Tensei (Also does Nagato start as a cripple ot nah?)

If Katakuri wants to bury Nagato, why wouldn't Katakuri fully cover him in Mochi and then bring him to the ground to finish the burial?

I think for several reasons this would be difficult to pull off

• The sheer mobility of Nagato’s flight.
• The potential Nagato could absorb Mochi outright
• Nagato’s various water style attacks.
• Substitution to escape Katakuri’s attempt to fully submerge him

 

[Kachon123]

• The sheer mobility of Nagato’s flight.

Katakuri uses his future sight to attack places his enemy dodges. Someone like Luffy who at that point was very proficient in Kenbun was struggling to dodge, and needed to rely on his rubber body to do so, something that Nagato doesn't have.

• The potential Nagato could absorb Mochi outright

Preta path absorbs Ninjutsu. Mochi is not Ninjutsu.

• Nagato’s various water style attacks.

Water style doesn't stop the attack from being there. Katakuri can also just ignite his Mochi in order to evaporate the water.

• Substitution to escape Katakuri’s attempt to fully submerge him

There's no proof that Substitution Jutsu would work, but even if it did, Katakuri would see where Nagato would end up and just trap him again.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Nagato uses his bird to fly around

Luffy's gear 4th which is one of his fastest form which can also fly could barely keep up, I highly doubt that bird is going to do anything... Also katakuri's conquerors Haki can instantly make it unconscious if needed

 

[Ryuga21]

What stops Katakuri from speedblitzing since his Mochi accelerates his movement speed and his flaming punch is equal to Snakeman's culverin (which is speed-boost)? Considering FS and Speed amp, Katakuri will read his opponent's movements as if it were an open book.

 

[That_moron2]

What stops Katakuri from speedblitzing since his Mochi accelerates his movement speed and his flaming punch is equal to Snakeman's culverin (which is speed-boost)? Considering FS and Speed amp, Katakuri will read his opponent's movements as if it were an open book.

Headcanon

 

[Arcker123]

Katakuri uses his future sight to attack places his enemy dodges. Someone like Luffy who at that point was very proficient in Kenbun was struggling to dodge, and needed to rely on his rubber body to do so, something that Nagato doesn't have.

I’d assume that flight would give him similar levels of mobility, and would the Mochi have that level of range anyway for a flying opponent?

Preta path absorbs Ninjutsu. Mochi is not Ninjutsu

It absorbs Chakra as well, ai assume equalization would allow it to absorb Mochi due to it being able to absorb Kekkai Genkai, which are genetic mutations like DF’s.

Water style doesn't stop the attack from being there. Katakuri can also just ignite his Mochi in order to evaporate the water.

Is the heat hot enough to evaporate the days of rain Nagato summons?

Also, I was arguing this would make the Mochi weaker, which seems to be what was argued in general.

There's no proof that Substitution Jutsu would work, but even if it did, Katakuri would see where Nagato would end up and just trap him again

He would be able to amp away from the mochi like substitution from other attacks like fire which completely engulfs people.

Could Katakuri counter the shunshin amp into flight with Mochi?

 

[Kachon123]

I’d assume that flight would give him similar levels of mobility

What's this based on?

would the Mochi have that level of range anyway for a flying opponent?

You mean the Mochi fists spawning in the air?

It absorbs Chakra as well, ai assume equalization would allow it to absorb Mochi due to it being able to absorb Kekkai Genkai, which are genetic mutations like DF’s.

Katakuri resists absorption with Haki via the Yami Yami no mi.

Is the heat hot enough to evaporate the days of rain Nagato summons?

Yes.

Also, I was arguing this would make the Mochi weaker, which seems to be what was argued in general.

Weaker in what sense?

He would be able to amp away from the mochi like substitution from other attacks like fire which completely engulfs people.

Why are you equating covering someone with fire (where they can still freely move) and smothering someone with Buso-Hardened Mochi?

Could Katakuri counter the shunshin amp into flight with Mochi?

Yes.

 

[Arcker123]

What's this based on?

The fact free flight would give you an incredible control over your aerial movement, including movements like that.

You mean the Mochi fists spawning in the air?

Yes ig. The Mochi would constantly be chasing a flying opponent.

Katakuri resists absorption with Haki via the Yami Yami no mi.

The Yami Yami no mi doesn’t have energy absorption in the way Nagato does.

Yes.

Why?

Weaker in what sense?

I assume the argument was that Mochi gets structurally weaker due to water or something, or just the DF weaknesses to drowning and water. I’ll admit this isn’t the strongest case.

Why are you equating covering someone with fire (where they can still freely move) and smothering someone with Buso-Hardened Mochi?

Because they both engulf somebodies body. The amount of movement isn’t relevant, what’s relevant is the “can move away from engulf attacks before they fully engulf” thing.

Yes

Y?

I don’t see why he’d ever be able to smother an aerial opponent who has the equivalent to short term teleportation/speed amp when he’s about to be attacked.

 

[Kachon123]

The fact free flight would give you an incredible control over your aerial movement, including movements like that.

Is his flight not just him riding a bird? I need proof that Katakuri would be unable to catch it bro

Yes ig. The Mochi would constantly be chasing a flying opponent.

Katakuri can literally just spawn his Mochi in front of the bird's flight path.

The Yami Yami no mi doesn’t have energy absorption in the way Nagato does.

Mochi isn't energy.

Why?

Heat scaling.

I assume the argument was that Mochi gets structurally weaker due to water or something,

Yeah, this was never once shown.

or just the DF weaknesses to drowning and water. I’ll admit this isn’t the strongest case.

I'm glad we can come to an agreement here.

Y?

I don’t see why he’d ever be able to smother an aerial opponent who has the equivalent to short term teleportation/speed amp when he’s about to be attacked.

Shunshin is a speed amp, not teleportation. Katakuri would literally see Nagato use it and then spawn a Power Mochi in his movement path.

 

[That_moron2]

Nagato doesn't even use the bird that much in character.

 

[Keeweed]

By the way, @Keeweed, are you voting?

I don’t know enough about the other guy to vote. I just thought the original arguement for saying Katakuri resisted gravity was odd (saying haki gg). Especially when Zoro has actually shown to resist it meaning Haki doesn’t even need to be mentioned.

 

[Arcker123]

Is his flight not just him riding a bird? I need proof that Katakuri would be unable to catch it bro

You're the one claiming he would catch Nagato so it's your burden.

Katakuri can literally just spawn his Mochi in front of the bird's flight path.

Get's countered by substitution or just changing the path of the bird.

Mochi isn't energy.

I don't disagree, just that the Yami's absorption isn't 1 to 1 with the ability absorption of the Preta path.

Heat scaling.
Yeah, this was never once shown.
I'm glad we can come to an agreement here.

Yes Ig if water doesn't weaken it this argument is irrelevant.

Shunshin is a speed amp, not teleportation. Katakuri would literally see Nagato use it and then spawn a Power Mochi in his movement path.

I see what you're saying, on second thought I don't think Flight and speed amps are good enough to beat precog and air spwaning attacks that just need to grab him.

---

I'm voting Katakuri, Nagato doesn't really have a reliable wincon and Katakuri's precognition and ability to spawn mochin the air would eventually allow him to grab Nagato after chasing him down and restrain him with LS before Nagato does something like Chibaku Tensei.

 

[KingTempest]

I'll go into the other arguments later but

Pain's Chibaku Tensei is accepted at Class P, it's not reflected on the profiles because whoever updates them is a goofball.

Lifting Pain's Chibaku Tensei would be Class P. With this new thread, the pull of the Chibaku Tensei wouldn't be Class P on a person

 

[Kidkinsey]

Nagato doesn't even use the bird that much in character.

In his only fight as nagato he used it. He also used it everytime he used the pain bodies

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Just to clarify more on obs haki, we see luffy... Presence sensing, Power reading, knew what he was doing inside of the building and potentially emotion sensing as well all at the same time in one instance and this is only via getting limited info from what luffy is saying

observation haki when activated (it can activate subconsciously as well) isn't an ability selector... It's similar to whenever you feel heat but you can either pay attention to it or ignore it if that makes sense

Whenever we get info on observation haki, it lists multiple things of it's abilities when used/activated... The only two abilities that's confirmed you need to train more for is power reading and future sight and those are just the base abilities evolved to a certain point

 

[Kachon123]

Now that Chibaku Tensei is not a wincon, how does Nagato win here?

Katakuri has vastly superior AP and Durability to the point that he could oneshot in order to temporarily incap Nagato while he regenerates so that he can fully incap him with his Mochi.

Katakuri would also avoid getting hit by literally any attack with the help of Future Sight and speed amps.

 

[Kidkinsey]

This IS edo nagato right? Like he's keeping his "infinite" chakra and regen or is that restricted

 

[Kachon123]

This IS edo nagato right? Like he's keeping his "infinite" chakra and regen

Yes

 

[Robo432343]

Katakuri fra

 

[That_moron2]

In his only fight as nagato he used it. He also used it everytime he used the pain bodies

Yeah but he doesn't really hover above the opponent on it.

 

[Ryuga21]

Katakuri FRA