speedster352
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That won’t counter it. It completely traps the opponents mind. And he would be wrapped by the roots and Madara can just erase him then.
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The Ghost of the Uchiha versus Monkey Boy
- Thread starter Spectra_Schiffer
- Start date
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so a couple of things. before i make an actual vote,
1). Madara can use Infinite Tsukuyomi with his own eyes or by looking at the moon to make the moonlight shine across the entire planet with the power of his GJ. It doesn't matter if you hide or close your eyes, just being touched by the light hits you with the jutsu unless you have the Six Path Rinnegan which gives superior GJ resistance to Infinite Tsukuyomi's Potency, or are shrouded in the Susanoo of a SP Rinnegan user. This jutsu was meant to hit everyone on the planet simultaneously even people in their homes sleeping. If Madara uses the moon variant, Luffy will be hit regardless of where he goes or what he does unless he leaves the planet before the light hits him somehow(which is something Luffy can't and won't do.)
2). Kenbun does not matter at all to SP Tier Genjutsu. Even normal Sharingan completely sees through GJ, even when done by other Sharingan Users. Yet Mangekyo Sharingan gj ignores your ability to ignore an ability. That's how a layer works. just being "above the mind"(which is flowery at best) is irrelevant to a layered ability
Layers > High Resistance every time. Because a Layered ability will ignore your resistance against something as if they don't exist rather than directly clash against said resistance.
3). Haki doesn't negate all DF abilities in existence. It can negate certain abilities of DFS or even just diminish their effectiveness and at other times it can't. An example is Oden not just nulling the Barrier Fruits' powers just because fodder is using it, An Admiral not being able to break Bird Cage(yada yada he wanted to trust that the SHs could accomplish it to push his anti-shichibukai agenda and because of what Smoker told him about alabasta) Assuming that Haki should give EE resistance, Soul Resistance, or even Temporal Resistances just because those DFs exist without any interaction between Haki and the fruit is just plain goonery. Haki negging/dulling DFs doesn't mean it will interact with every fruit the same way.
4). Haki isn't even accepted as having resistances like the ones being described on Luffy's profile or the Haki page. What is accepted is that Buso acts as DF Power Null. And if that is the case for verse battles it should be treated as either a weakness of DFs that Haki can exploit(not resistances) or for out of verse should only be capable of negating the abilities of other verses that have a similar Power System to DFs if we go by SBA.
5). 8th Gates Guy breaks one by kicking Madara into one after Kakashi Kamui's the front away and again when he warps space while sprinting towards Madara. But he never physically touches one. Not to mention Madara can choose when TSO functions as balls of death as shown when he stabs Sakura and she doesn't get erased and when Obito is still not in control of his mind his TSOs aren't erasing everything they touch yet. TSOs, when used normally can't be touched by anyone that doesn't have SP Chakra..
all of you are just straight up going against the profiles...
He's body will still be able to move on it's own and sense him
Yes it does... Accepted as such on the haki page and from databooks
You are now straight up lying at this point...
Haki works also on things that don't come from devil fruits... So it's not a devil fruit weakness and doesn't make any sense to be just a devil fruit weakness
Devil fruits aren't magic based or anything
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Godernet
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then show me something from the profile that goes against what I'm saying instead of yapping.
GJ paralyzes so that really doesn't matter.
and yet there are examples in the series that contradict that being all-encompassing.
"like the ones being described" is the key part.
y'all are saying Haki can resist the EE of TSO because Moria's fruit has a limited EE aspect to it that no Haki user has interacted with.
Not to mention I've already given examples showing not every aspect of every DF is always negged by Haki. so saying any form of EE resistance should come from this is a loose assumption followed by a healthy dose of goonery.
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Net making sense here
FRA something something moon shine
FRA something something moon shine
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No examples at all.
Haki resists
Thats like saying the truth seeking balls doesn't erase all ninjutsu because it isn't shown to
Godernet
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sounds like you weren't reading.
We've seen on multiple different occasions that Haki doesnt always neg every aspect of every Devil Fruit ability.
Moria has a limited EE that is a byproduct of his DFs actual ability to mess with Shadows and not something his fruit technically even does. It's a product of not having a shadow. Why would Haki null something that is a product of afflicting a DF ability on someone and not the power itself?
whereas TSOs are directly stated and implied to erase all ninjutsu.
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Nah like actually could really use a CRT at this point.sounds like its CRT time
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we dont give Truth seeking orbs resistances or negating the properties for every single jutsu thats ever shown in the series like your doing for devil fruits.
otherwise TSB would have the ability to negate up to low godly levels of regeneration and reality warping
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he literally listed examples in his original comment which you decided to just respond with "no muh profiles" like wtf
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Because it's from the devil fruit that the byproduct ability comes from... The actual sun doesn't have any ability, it's the devil fruit that works like that by taking someone's shadow... This is stated to be from the fruit and not some sort of in verse law like sea vs devil fruits
Haki has been stated and shown to block devil fruit abilities many times...
Those instances doesn't mean anything, oden did not use haki in that moment, especially the negation type which he would need in that instance
And doffy is a haki user, we see luffy's gear 4th Haki which is much stronger than his base haki, break them.
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which are literally stated and shown to work like that bro what? If you have a problem with that, go discuss with oda.
Yee because they weren't actual anti feats
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These aren't good arguments to be honest. The Barrier and Bird-Cage aren't something you can really "resist" in the first place. First one is a defense Barrier so there's nothing to "resist." same with Bird-Cage. The latter simply being an abundance of uber stronk string, it's not something you can really resist either.
Furthermore if Haki was accepted as nullification (which it isn't.) then Buso would be negating DF abilities 24/7. Haki is meant to "block" these abilities from effecting the user, not to nullify the ability as a whole.
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You can believe what you want, that's fine by me. Call it hostile, everyone has their opinions. Anyways looking at your actual points you're far off from what happened in might guy vs madara than where you started. Also next time if you haven't watched something or don't have knowledge of it ask questions. "Might Guy overcame tso with sheer ap" sounds to me like "I actually know what I'm talking about" but "if I remember correctly didn't might guy overcome tso with ap" sounds like "don't really know about this stuff but this is what I think happened " you used the former which would imply you have read at least the few pages where the feat actually occured. Which would leave me puzzled as to why you said what you said. You know what you sounded like? Someone somewhere told you and you just regurgitated it. Because why will you confidently say something and then I tell you what happened the panel before and you'd tell me "I never read it". I didn't ask you to read the entire manga. At least when you pull out a scan read the surrounding context. It's really not hard. It's actually just fact checking
No . Minato teleported the orbs from Guy . Kakashi used kamui To take entirely the front part of the tso staff that madara completely wrapped his body in.
guy never blitzed madara. Not at any point. He was just faster . And luffy is stronger with one giant attack That if he tries he would just be erased. He's is actually almost 3 times weaker than both of them. And you keep saying he is faster. You know you have to like prove it?
I don't know why we are on limbo topic when he has not gotten past tso yet but still madara never used limbo because he didn't view guy as a threat. Right after the fight the first thing he used against naruto who he viewed a thread was limbo
Bruh speed is equalised. Whether he is sub rel or ftl is irrelevant. Without amps both might guy, madara and luffy are all equal in speed according to this match because technically speed is equalised.
Dude. Even if you haven't watched naruto at least make effort to read the profile. If you did you would know 8th gate guy asides from evening elephant has 6 different speed boosts. So stop saying it is less.
Never said he has. He just has much more than luffy
That's the issue. It is not accepted. If it is link me to where resistance to EE is anywhere.
I will assume you don't know energy isn't even matter. I'm not explaining this you know why? It's on the damn profile, kindly read it.
Yes he'd be able to return their shadow back to them. Okay? And? That's still not resistance to EE. What part of "the EE is tied to having no shadow in sunlight and not actually a characteristics of the df itself"
Actually it does start around him. It's in character for him to do so and madara can match his speed pretty fine.
The EE is not part of the Df. The EE is a consequence of having no shadow in sunlight.
Via the sharingan he actually is resistant
Fair enough. I was just pointing out that being blind doesn't stop him.
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Godernet
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Not having a Shadow is what erases people.
The Kage Kage no Mi interacts with Shadows but it's never stated to implant some weakness to sunlight.
so why would Haki allow them to resist the conditional effects of being erased by the sun when they don't have a Shadow?
that doesn't mean it blocks every effect of every ability in the verse without proof.
So Oden decided to stop his rampage because he felt like it?
- You have a native of Wano saying Kozuki Oden's strength didn't matter and that his barrier couldn't be breached (with Haki being a pretty known thing in Wano.)
- Oden completely stopping any attempt to attack even while Orochi is badmouthing his father's death.
If Oden isn't normally the type to stand around and listen to reason when angry if he could just Haki chad his way through the barrier he would have.
G4 Luffy breaks every normal string Doffy fires but still couldn't destroy the birdcage? that also doesn't explain Fujitora or Zoro. its not like Doffy Haki is spread throughout the birdcage at all times.
you also ignored the Law part of how Haki doesn't passively just neg everything. abilities can affect and then later need haki to get through them.
the main issue is that every example used to justify it being a resistance isn't really an example of resistance but of power null.
the wiki defines Resistance as withstanding the effects of abilities.
whereas power null is the ability to nullify the powers and abilities of others, negating their effects.
DF blocks/negates DF abilities, it doesn't withstand them, it dulls them.
if we go based off these definitions Haki not being able to null the effects of the barrier fruit or bird cage shows it doesn't null everything and anything 100% of the time.
it is,
it's just also currently accepted as resistance for some reason which is kind of conflicting
Devil Fruit Negation (Intense enough Haki can counteract and negate Devil Fruit abilities, seen when Trafalgar Law negated the effects of the Feminization Disease from the Sick-Sick Fruit[63])
Resistance to:
Devil Fruit abilities (Buso Haki has been stated to be able to block devil fruit abilities[57], seen when Doflamingo blocked Trafalgar Law's Amputate[58] and when Trafalgar Law stated that his Shambles ability would not work against those with superior Buso to him[59])
it's just strange to say its nulling DFs but also resistance even tho it's nulling them.
it would be like giving Asta resistance to every magic in the verse even tho his power nulls all magic indiscriminately.
or saying TSOs resist all chakra-based abilities ignoring the fact that it erases and nulls them.
Nullification doesn't have to always work 100% of the time if its conditional and dependent on the power of ones haki vs anothers Haki.
even the power null page has this:
It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter.
so yeah Haki not nulling things 100% of the time doesn't discredit it being power null.
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I'll save my counters for the CRT since I believe it's genuinely needed to resolve things. It is a bit counterintuitive to have Haki accepted as both nullification and resistance so at the moment we're both correct. (Despite it not making sense.)
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Madara FRA.
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Literally already said why... It's apart of the devil fruit abilities
does not change anything?
The only law was that Shadow and Shapes must have the same shape... Which isn't mentioned anywhere on his devil fruit databook and is a Law inverse
When it's shown like that many times and stated as such many times... There is all the proof you need
Wano doesn't know shit about devil fruits, they are secluded from everything else in the world
So they have no reason to know how to fight against them with haki
They were pushing it back, they weren't getting sliced by it, that's them blocking it
Because it's made of stronger string? This nit pick/trying to find some weird anti feat is absolute insane...
Because haki users doesn't have intense haki flowing every 24/7... Which is how law got effected and then negated the effects with strong haki
it is not nullifying...
Law straight up removed the devil fruit ability, which is different to base arm haki blocking devil fruit abilities and does not remove the devil fruit ability...
It's not hard to understand
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How do you not see the difference?
What law did was use intense enough haki to complety remove the ability, something not everyone can do (since you need to learn to be able to use alot of your haki) (Something literally new, law learned in wano)
the base ability of haki is to block devil fruit abilities which is both stated and shown many times
Godernet
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sigh
That's why the Devil Fruit Nullification part of the page literally links you to the power null page.
Power Null is the negation or erasure of abilities.
Resistances are the enduring of abilities.
Initial Buso blocking out DF abilities is a showcase that at a lower level it is capable of nulling DFs from affecting someone should their Haki be sufficient.
Intermediate Buso w/ knowledge being able to remove an ability effect on you is greater power null than before.
whether you label it block, erase, null, removing, it doesn't matter.
because it's not the enduring of an ability which is what resistance is.
key word negated
negation is literally nullification in different verbiage be frr.
That's why the Devil Fruit Nullification part of the page literally links you to the power null page.
because the different stages are null at different levels. that doesn't refute it not being power null.
it seems like it is for you.
you do realize that describing something as "blocking" and "removing" doesn't stop it from being power null, if anything it reinforces the idea that it is.
Power Null is the negation or erasure of abilities.
Resistances are the enduring of abilities.
Initial Buso blocking out DF abilities is a showcase that at a lower level it is capable of nulling DFs from affecting someone should their Haki be sufficient.
Intermediate Buso w/ knowledge being able to remove an ability effect on you is greater power null than before.
whether you label it block, erase, null, removing, it doesn't matter.
because it's not the enduring of an ability which is what resistance is.
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What kachon said... Again not hard to understand, especially if you try to understand.
Godernet
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If an ability you activate makes you unaffected by the effects of an ability it’s nulling it.
Mhm
Both are examples of power null by sites standards. One is using haki to negate the ability before it hits you, the other is using haki to negate the ability after it hits you.
Trying to shoehorn the glossary definition of the word resistances doesn’t make it a resistance based on site standards. It isn’t enduring Foxys slow slow fruit, it’s stopping it from working at all.
Y’all are arguing over something that’s accepted already and the site definitions or PN and Resistances at this point.
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I mean, it's literally stated in the Haki page. I don't know why this is a topic of contention.
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Vergo wasn't nullifying Law's spatial slashes, he was using Buso to actively resist the effects of Law's DF.
Godernet
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Godernet
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Godernet
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Mhm resistances can work that way.
unfortunately this isn’t a case of that because haki inherently stops DF abilities(nullification) it doesn’t endure them(resistance)
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He activated an ability to defend himself from the attack's effects.
Godernet
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No, he activated Buso to resist Law's slashes. If he nullified Law's abilities then Law wouldn't be able to use them. He can still use them but Buso can inherently resist the effects of Law's DF.
I'm failing to see how Vergo not nullifying Law's powers and using Buso to resist the spatial slashes translates into power nullification rather than simple resistance.
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Haki doesn't inherently stop devil fruit abilities. Haki resists abilities in general, and can nullify them if activated while they're in action.
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Anyway this is an irrelevant discussion. At the end of the day Haki is currently accepted as both, so a CRT is needed to make it into solely power nullification.
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incon fra
Godernet
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That’s not how nullification works, even it has limitations.
Nulling doesn’t shut down the ability to try using the ability.
Because Haki inherently works on all DFs like y’all said. As long as it’s being used at a certain level DF powers won’t be as effective, regardless of what the ability is.
Godernet
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Coming soon
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it didn't stop the ability from working...
Does using normal haki on logias stop their ability from working? No.
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If you're literally arguing against something that's currently accepted without even having a CRT open to change it, you're just derailing.
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