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The First FIrmanent runs an gauntlet

The_2nd_Existential_Seed

The_2nd_Existential_Seed

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The First Firmanent is an formidable foe indeed. How about we put it up against the most powerful cosmics in comic history ?

Combatants

-Cosmic Armor Superman / The Thought Robot

- Captain Adam

- Multi-Death

- - Multi-Eternity

- Infinity

-Never Queen

-Living Tribunal ( Old version, which is presumed to be stronger than current LT due to showings )

- Logos

- Pre-Retcon Molecule Ma

- Pre-Retcon Beyonder

- The Beyonders

- Post -Retcon Molecule Ma ( With Beyonder Powers )

- Pralaya

- Swamp Thing ( Post-Retcon / With Green Absorbed )

- The Endless

- Downstreamers ( Old Ones )
 
I believe The First Firmament would clear, let me explain why:

The Thought Robot: overwhelmed by Mandrakk, and The First should be much more powerful than Mandrakk since the Dark Monitor existed in the highest level of his Multiverse, but The First existed before his Multiverse entirely.

Captain Adam: apparently stronger than The Thought Robot, but still stands no chance against The First.

Death: all of the Marvel Abstracts are connected to their Multiverse, The First predates all of them and as such, should be much stronger than all of the Abstracts put together, even The Living Tribunal.

Eternity: same reason as before.

Infinity: again, same reason as for Death.

The Never Queen: once more, same reason as for Death

The Living Tribunal: he embodies the Marvel Multiverse, but The First existed long before him and should be much more powerful.

Logos: the same reason as The Living Tribunal.

Pre-Retcon Beyonder: he embodies another Multiverse millions of times more powerful than the Marvel Multiverse, but The First existed before all Multiverses, which should make him even stronger than The Beyonder.

Pre-Retcon Molecule Man: he is as powerful as The Beyonder, which would make him still weaker than The First.

The Beyonders: killed The Living Tribunal, but they came from another Multiverse, and again, The First came before all Multiverses, making him much stronger than them.

Post-Retcon Molecule Man: he has the powers of The Beyonders, but that would still make him weaker than The First.

Pralaya: she is essentially DC's equivelant of Oblivion, however, Oblivion existed before the current Marvel Multiverse, whereas The First existed before all Marvel Multiverses, which would make him even stronger than Pralaya and Oblivion.

Swamp Thing: killed Pralaya, but The First should be even stronger than Pralaya.

The Endless: each of the seven are Infinite Dimensional, but they have shown to be weaker than Outerversal Beings like Mother Night, and it is likely that The First is stronger than Oblivion, an Outerversal Being.

Downstreamers: The Downstreamers are possibly an entire Pantheon of Outerversal Beings, depending on how powerful The First is, I believe he could beat them with high difficulty.
 
CAS - First firament

Captain Adam - First firament

All the Marvel abstracts would lose to first firament as he is portrayed above him

Though Pralaya erased all of existence countless times . She was still killed by a high 1B weapon . So firament would also beat her

Old Living tribunal - IDK .

Swamp thing - Is a low high 1b . He gets stomped by firament

The Endless = Endless should win due to destiny and death imo . Death predates 1A Father time and returns to mother night s womb . They can also manipulate the dreams all the sentinel beings in the creation and warps in a way that first firament would cease to exist . Dreams and prayers are the real omnipotent powers in DC more then anything .

Downstreamers as a collective would stomp first firament . They're far too ridiculous to deal with even for first firament .
 
@Izer I don't know what you're talking about. FF is High 1-B, so debating it as being 1-A here is pointless.
 
Izreldan said:
The Endless: each of the seven are Infinite Dimensional, but they have shown to be weaker than Outerversal Beings like Mother Night, and it is likely that The First is stronger than Oblivion, an Outerversal Being.
Click to expand...
lol wut? theres absolutely no way the first is stronger than oblivion. its impossible for a high 1-B character to be stronger than a 1-A character. the difference between 1-A and high 1-B is bigger than the difference between high 1-B and a regular human
 
Most likely Oblivion is a state of the Multiverse between its rebirths ("The breath between life and death. Between death and rebirth"┬®). I think he is related to other abstracts as the part of the cycle. FF on the other hand should be still higher.
 
^ Its been stated that Eternity is a small piece of the first firmament. And that he killed the first multiverse but they reborn the whole time till they became the current Eternity. (And FF is the one who created Life)
 
First firament is the first universe creation in Marvel .

Multi Eternity got retconned in to sum of Parallell universes in the current sotryline atleast from what i've been reading so far .

FIrst firament is also shown to be growing bigger and bigger in the void .
 
That is correct, yes. The First Firmament is just the first Marvel universe, before it was split into a multiverse. Our High 1-B (rather than 2-A) rating is likely technically inaccurate for this particular story, but must be placed there anyway for the sake of consistency.
 
What i don't understand is how come the first firmament isn't conidered more powerful than Oblivion. He predates all of creation basically which includes Oblivion as he says he was alone untill he created the celesetials who inturn split TFF into "hundreds of universes" which formed Multi-Eternity. Though the fact that for some reason he can't kill Eternity should mean that he would still be a high 1-B. Maybe downgrade Oblivion then?
 
Because the First Firmament is just the embodiment of the first Marvel universe, before the Celestials split it into a multiverse, whereas Oblivion is the embodiment of nonexistence, and as such should logically be far beyond any universe or multiverse, that are constructs of space and time per definition.
 
@Fancy Skull He killed eternity but he reborn the whole time so he chained him.

@Ant if you notice that he can fill the nonexistences. I dont understand why Neverqueen is high 1-B ( she exist in nonexistences too)
 
The Never Queen is the embodiment of what might be in the multiverse, as opposed to Eternity, who is the embodiment of what is in the multiverse. (It likely involves the notion of collapsing timelines due to quantum mechanics.)

Regardless, both options involve space and time, and as such get the High 1-B rating, due to ourselves being extremely generous, even though Eternity is usually treated as a 2-A entity.
 
She exists in a time outside of multiversal space, and a space outside of multiversal time. That simply means that she is an embodiment of her own space-time continuum as a complement to Eternity. That is it.
 
Is first firament weaker then Eternity . He had to wait for the right moment for eternity to get weakened in order to imprison him .
 
In most cases, that would not make sense. The First Firmament is the first incarnation of the Marvel Multiverse, which would mean he would be at least equal to Eternity. Not even counting he absorbed the other previous versions of the Marvel Multiverse as well. This would imply he is at least 4X stronger than Eternity is.
 
I do not think that it was ever stated that he absorbed the previous iterations of Eternity, but yes he should logically simply be a larger and more powerful version of the part that was split off from himself.
 
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