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The Battle of Gods

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It shouldn't even have been brought up

Well tough, I brought it up because it's necessary. You lot wonder why only staff show up and shut these things down right? Well that's why. It's a necessary follow up to Ant's point anyway.

You're derailing

I don't care. If people above can say things like "I can't wait until this gets 'debunked by one staff'", I can clear up any misunderstandings about it as it's creating tension.

Stop testing my patience. I for one don't think this fact should be ignored. Or maybe we should go with the alternative route and skip the diplomacy? I could just go to the HR group and settle this all with relative ease, with admin approval. Unfortunately that'll result in what? At least five people being banned? Possibly far more? Instead, I'm trying to reach out and prevent people from making the same mistakes that Aizen, BlueDash, KuuIchigo, etc. made before. All reasonable people in their own right at one point in time, just like I believe you guys are. For example, I don't have any problems with Shadow Warrior. It'd be a shame to see him go.

Again, I'm in a very bad mood. Keep making it worse for everyone and the result will be catastrophic.
 
Well Option two doesn't really see feasible, since that's based on a really rough translation and Dende doesn't say anything on the RoSAT being a Universe in official scans. And the counterarguments for 3 assume that people are trying to say that it'd be low 2-C because their power was felt in the Kais realm. That's not it. It's saying that them being able to threaten to destroy the realm of the kais as well despite it being in another dimension separate from U7 means it would destroy Space-Time as well in U7.
 
Just saying, option two isn't a thing anymore. Only option three, that's why it's the only one in the OP. Also do you agree with option three then?
 
@Sera EX

I don't know what is going on in this discussion, but if being on the wiki is affecting your mood so severely that your actions will be "catastropic" if worsened anymore by your own admission, then take a quick break from the wiki or just the internet in general until you have blown off some steam.

If your bad mood is affecting your actions and judgement in a negative way - then you'll just end up worsening the wiki and your own mentality if you stay on it right now.

Taking a small break to better your mood will be for the benefit of both the wiki and yourself.
 
@Warren

Sera is referring to what we have been made aware of regarding what certain members here have systematically been doing outside of the wiki. It seems quite serious. It is best if we drop the subject for now though.

@LordTracer

Given that this is a very controversial topic that has been shut down by several prominent staff members in the past, we need at least similar levels of staff approval to undo their decisions. My apologies.
 
I am afraid that you will need several administrators to do so.
 
Wiki users don't matter, this is a controversial topic so more trusted members like the administrators are necessary, like Warren and Elizhaa.
 
I'm not an administrator, I'm a discussion moderator.

I am knowledgable on Dragon Ball though - it's the only series where I know literally everything about.
 
Warren Valion said:
I'm not an administrator, I'm a discussion moderator.
I am knowledgable on Dragon Ball though - it's the only series where I know literally everything about.
Click to expand...
If that is the case then we would have 4 knowledgeable members that agree with the thread.
 
PowerToScale said:
If that is the case then we would have 4 knowledgeable members that agree with the thread.
Click to expand...
While I am knowledgable on Dragon Ball - I am not on the Knowledgable Members List for the series because I am too lazy to find out how to add my name their, but I am knowledgable.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Ant's asking for administrators specifically, but I don't think there are many that would be willing to look at this.
Click to expand...
Yes, unfortunately quite a lot of regular members of some controversial fandoms have behaved in such an unreasonable, argumentative and disrespectful manner that most of our staff currently seem unwilling to help out with these topics anymore, and this cripples the progress of our wiki work in general.

Remember that the staff are volunteer workers who are mostly trying to help the wiki to function properly and be as reliable as possible. If you turn parts of that into a toxic experience, they will be less willing to do so.

The best workable long-term solution is that the regular members in question make a continuous effort to shape up, or the profiles will likely have to remain the way that they are for years, except regarding more cosmetic changes.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Ant's asking for administrators specifically, but I don't think there are many that would be willing to look at this.
Click to expand...
I contacted two administrators and a bureaucrat.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Ant's asking for administrators specifically, but I don't think there are many that would be willing to look at this.
Click to expand...
Well, you can still ask them, I feel liek three should be enough - but what do I know?

Here is the list:



And frankly, I don't really agree entirely with Ant's point.

Those old discussion threads trying to upgrade the 3-A feat to Low 2-C was based on the wording of the feat itself - not based on the fact the World of the Kais is also being threatened for destruction and is spacically seperated from the main universe.

Thus this is a different argument for the same outcome - a far more justifiable argument to be honest.

Anyway, I got to go.
 
Alright, for a constructive comment:

The problem here is that we are already very liberal with our Dragon Ball ratings as it is (the high tiered stuff that is). 3-A Super Saiyan God Goku is already questionable. There's the issue of Beerus' power being retconned among other things as well. The more inconsistent a series becomes, the more we must treat it with scrutiny. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

DBS is barebones when it comes to feats. DBZ was a lot more straightforward and easier. Goku v. Beerus has a universal statement, Beerus v. Champa (a mere scuffle) has a 2-C statement, while the next universal statement we have is Zamasu's Will which is mostly accepted as a Low 2-C feat. That's the last we get out of DBS in terms of attack potency feats that aren't based in power-scaling.

To go back to the Daizenshuu and use the DB Universe map to imply all these higher tiered feats than what was demonstrated before us, and which escalated rather ridiculously even for a Shounen manga/anime, isn't in part a flawed practice. After all, there will be scaling involved. Anyone stronger than SSG Goku would scale to Low 2-C despite lacking the feats or even the powerscaling to back it up. It also would make Zamasu's feat less impressive as SSB Goku should've been able to completely rekt Zamasu's Will with the combined strength of Vegeta and Trunks at his side. I know it was argued that Goku said if he had a senzu he could probably beat Zamasu (I'm not sure if that was the exact wording, I'd have the check because even the subs take liberties). However, he needed to fuse with Vegeta to even contend with the (currently) 3-A Merged Zamasu. So that statement is odd at best.

Fictional characters have no agency so it's not like I'm calling Goku a liar. It's the writers fault. (DBS is written by multiple writers. Even Episode 101 would have a different writer than Episode 100 for example).

There's more but I can't type forever so I'll post the rest in a few.
 
First time i see a revision that has such trouble getting resolved, is it just an impression or it's not usualy that convoluted ? i'v seen other revision go much better, hell i'm pretty sure the 'Champa + Beerus = 2-C' was accepted with just two staff members.

Whole thing sound convoluted TBH.

Though people are taking it pretty well so it's good at least.
 
Plenty of revisions have had troubles being resolved in the past.

Behind the scenes, there's a considerable number of people who find the current ratings questionable at best, with good reason by the way.
 
Dragomer said:
First time i see a revision that has such trouble getting resolved, is it just an impression or it's not usualy that convoluted ? i'v seen other revision go much better, hell i'm pretty sure the 'Champa + Beerus = 2-C' was accepted with just two staff members.

Whole thing sound convoluted TBH.
Click to expand...
You should look at Bleach lol. We have 9 CRTs that have been waiting for Admins for several months now. The amount of CRTs used to be like twice that, but progress had been made. But I digress, this is derailing.
 
I think I know where Sere is heading with "moar" writing. Also @Sera, just because Zamasu's feat would be less impressive doesn't mean anything because even Jiren's world of void shaking isn't as impressive (and even less impressive now that the WOV isn't infinite anymore).
 
@Sera ... That wasn't Merged Zamasu though ? It was just regular Zamasu's soul as Goku Black was atomized by Vegito.

I'll wait for response from the admins before I give my thoughts on the subject ... But I'm definitely leaning on agreeing.
 
"The problem here is that we are already very liberal with our Dragon Ball ratings as it is (the high tiered stuff that is). 3-A Super Saiyan God Goku is already questionable."

What's questionable about it and what is being done for higher tiered DB that's considered very liberal?
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
@Sera ... That wasn't Merged Zamasu though ? It was just regular Zamasu's soul as Goku Black was atomized by Vegito.
Click to expand...
The entire Fusion Zamasu thing is basically composed on headcanon to try justifying a load of bad writing and the anime contradicting how fusion works, so let's not dwelve into that.
 
3-A SSG Goku has always been pretty strait forward, even the combined might of Goku and a tiny fraction of Beerus power was Universal. And Goku only got much stronger at that point on and there's multiple statements about destroying all of Universe 7 and Goku being comparable to a God of Destruction.
 
I am leaning toward agreeing with Sera and Medeus.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
3-A SSG Goku has always been pretty strait forward, even the combined might of Goku and a tiny fraction of Beerus power was Universal. And Goku only got much stronger at that point on and there's multiple statements about destroying all of Universe 7 and Goku being comparable to a God of Destruction.
Click to expand...
A tiny fraction of Beerus' power would be Low 2-C though. Similarly, so would destroying all of Universe 7 and being comparable to the GoDs.
 
Fiction usually doesn't work that conveniently and consistently, especially not in accordance with our tiers.
 
Also @Sera, just because Zamasu's feat would be less impressive doesn't mean anything because even Jiren's world of void shaking isn't as impressive (and even less impressive now that the WOV isn't infinite anymore).

I understand that Zamasu, I was illustrating how inconsistent DBS is with it's portrayal of impressive feats for stronger characters.

@Sera ... That wasn't Merged Zamasu though ? It was just regular Zamasu's soul as Goku Black was atomized by Vegito.

What are you exactly referring to Seed? I want to make sure I address your point correctly as I realize I may have made an error.

What's questionable about it and what is being done for higher tiered DB that's considered very liberal?

Beerus' power being retconned and the fact that Beerus casually fighting Champa in a mere scuffle was showing significantly greater results if we go by Vados' statement. Unless you're going to assume he was using all of his strength against Champa (not far fetched but still very weird when you think about it).
 
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