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A definitely not so controversial Dragon ball toei upgrade

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i don't want to clogging the thread, but since you post this, i will answer, time is infinite by default, unless proven otherwise, this is written in the standard, the kind of feat you post is anti-feat for 2-A, 2-B, etc... cause the feat mean multiple timelines merged into one, which mean there multiple timelines isn't infinite and get merged, into one, kinda time axes crossed and cut each other thus make these time not being infinite, only the single one that emerged from the merging/collapsing is infinite. thus invalidate 2-A, 2-B, etc..... because if time is not infinite, then Low 2-C get bunked, either just 3-A or High 3-A

But like people said, we not talking about hypertimeline, but we arguing more spatial dimensions
Thank you that clears up my confusion. I saw so many different points being argued it made things unclear to me


Is the only argument is that they exist in the same structure and the afterlife is a greater infinity than the living universe?

If so I disagree.

The logic can be used as supporting evidence, but by itself that argument can't work to suggest additional dimensional axises

There's quite few reasons why this won't work

From Subsets of the same dimensional axis to, policy changes to how dimensional sizes work among being the top 2 reasons.
My original points for my disagreement still stands

But I'll also add that simply being called Higher Dimensional or similar in nature needs more substance to back it. Again it's supporting evidence but by itself it means nothing by policy
 
Gracias, eso aclara mi confusión. Vi tantos puntos diferentes que no me quedó claro.



Mis puntos originales para mi desacuerdo siguen en pie.

Pero también añadiré que el simple hecho de llamarlo de dimensión superior o de naturaleza similar necesita más sustancia que lo respalde. Nuevamente, es evidencia de apoyo, pero por sí solo no significa nada en términos de política.
I kindly ask you to read carefully the arguments that the op brought, as I said before Japanese grammar is a migraine
Why is the message above in Spanish?
 
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Those wouldn't be inherently anti-feats. Goku can use IT, Shin uses Kai Kai, and Whis has his own dimensional travel ability. Those wouldn't be anti-feats as they are specifically abilities shown to be capable of crossing dimensions.
Those "ANTI-FEATS" only works with 1-A and superior tiers, Remember that qualitative superiority is no longer simply a higher dimensionality, the differences between 4D and 5D are accepted as quantitative in this wiki
They are insignificant at a certain point, but if you want to demonstrate greater dimensionality, you must demonstrate that there are not things like that, it is not the same that your AP is 5D, to that your 3D existence can interact with a 5D, that's why I also disagree.

Just imagine a 5D being physically interacting with a 3D plane/character.
 
They are insignificant at a certain point, but if you want to demonstrate greater dimensionality, you must demonstrate that there are not things like that, it is not the same that your AP is 5D, to that your 3D existence can interact with a 5D, that's why I also disagree.

Just imagine a 5D being physically interacting with a 3D plane/character.
Not how that works. Also don't know why you pinged me because I was debunking the notion of any sort of travel being an anti-feat, which it isn't given the teleportation abilities the characters use to do it.
 
I kindly ask you to read carefully the arguments that the op brought, as I said before Japanese grammar is a migraine
Why is the message above in Spanish?
Answer by removing the translation, you must first undo the translation, and then answer
 
They are insignificant at a certain point, but if you want to demonstrate greater dimensionality, you must demonstrate that there are not things like that, it is not the same that your AP is 5D, to that your 3D existence can interact with a 5D, that's why I also disagree.

Just imagine a 5D being physically interacting with a 3D plane/character.
Well, he just doesn't interact with his whole being and so on? In the same way that we have examples of 4D characters going down to 3D realms and continuing to move in 4 axes, we can have 3D characters in 4D realms and only being able to move in 3 dimensions, nothing out of the ordinary.
But as I previously pointed out, it is not an anti-feat at all.
 
Not how that works. Also don't know why you pinged me because I was debunking the notion of any sort of travel being an anti-feat, which it isn't given the teleportation abilities the characters use to do it.
I know it's dimensional travel, but the fact that I can interact there, being alive already discredits it a lot.
Also, if you're going to include the whis thing, it loads a lot more sense to disagree, since it marks a specific time, to get to the mortal world.
 
Well, he just doesn't interact with his whole being and so on? In the same way that we have examples of 4D characters going down to 3D realms and continuing to move in 4 axes, we can have 3D characters in 4D realms and only being able to move in 3 dimensions, nothing out of the ordinary.
But as I previously pointed out, it is not an anti-feat at all.
Can you show a scan where it is mentioned that this place has more Coordinates, apart from being a "Higher Dimension"?

Note: The translator misspelled.
 
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I know it's dimensional travel, but the fact that I can interact there, being alive already discredits it a lot.
Also, if you're going to include the whis thing, it loads a lot more sense to disagree, since it marks a specific time, to get to the mortal world.
Why? How? For both of those assertions, how do they 'discredit' OP, because I haven't really seen the argument as to why or how they discredit been made yet.
 
Why? How? For both of those assertions, how do they 'discredit' OP, because I haven't really seen the argument as to why or how they discredit been made yet.
It wouldn't hurt to analyze my arguments, would it?
A lower-dimensional being can exist within, travel through, and interact with higher dimensions this doesn't discredit anything. So why are we even arguing this here?
They are insignificant at a certain point, but if you want to demonstrate greater dimensionality, you must demonstrate that there are not things like that, it is not the same that your AP is 5D, to that your 3D existence can interact with a 5D, that's why I also disagree.

Just imagine a 5D being physically interacting with a 3D plane/character.
Can you show a scan where it is mentioned that this place has more Coordinates, apart from being a "Higher Dimension"?
 
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It wouldn't hurt to analyze my arguments, would it?
It wouldn't hurt you to listen to what others are saying, because it seems like you're not properly listening us.

They are insignificant at a certain point
No, this argument is insignificant in every single point.

We are discussing the structure of the afterlife being higher-dimensional, not claiming that everything in the afterlife is.

A random soul in the afterlife isn’t 4D or higher, won't be either if this passes. Please stop this pointless argument, you are deliberately clogging the thread.
 
Well, I understand that the arguments are based on:
  • Transcends Dimensions
  • It encompasses the sky as a subset, which is infinite in size, being as vast as the universe.
I understand that they also use things like it is beyond the comprehension of mortals and things like that. Personally I have read the FAQ, and it is made clear that "transcend" or words like that do not go far enough, I honestly think the best argument here is that it encompasses the sky which is infinite, which, yes, is good supporting evidence. Then the op tries to prove that it is at least 4D, and +1D for time (This is a total of low 1C). (Wasn't time non-existent in the afterlife? I'm sure all the scans refer to that realm as timeless).
Also know that, according to the FAQ "One of the easiest ways to qualify for Level 2 and higher, is to affect entire higher dimensional universes that can incorporate the entirety of lower dimensional ones within themselves" "a cosmology where the entirety of our three dimensional universe is, in fact, a subset of a much larger four dimensional space" (my understanding is that the thread leans more in favor of this, correct me if I'm wrong). In effect, evidence is given here that it encompasses an infinite three dimensional space within itself, what needs to be proven is that this higher space that encompasses it is a higher dimensional space, i.e. an additional (four dimensional) spatial axis. There is no proof of that in the op, but I feel they try to make up for it with things like "transcends dimensions...etc" . As I said, transcending dimensions and such things are not enough to qualify at any particular level according to the FAQ itself. The main reason for my disagreement being lack of evidence, there is supporting information, yes, but nothing much beyond that.
My vote? I disagree, I feel everything here can be used as supporting evidence, but not as the fundamental basis of the argument, if there was a direct statement from a major axis I would easily agree, but at the moment I don't, I feel much more explicit evidence is needed. So I disagree but will await the staff's assessment.
 
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It wouldn't hurt you to listen to what others are saying, because it seems like you're not properly listening us.


No, this argument is insignificant in every single point.

We are discussing the structure of the afterlife being higher-dimensional, not claiming that everything in the afterlife is.

A random soul in the afterlife isn’t 4D or higher, won't be either if this passes. Please stop this pointless argument, you are deliberately clogging the thread.
I paste it here in case you did not understand it twice.
They are insignificant at a certain point, but if you want to demonstrate greater dimensionality, you must demonstrate that there are not things like that, it is not the same that your AP is 5D, to that your 3D existence can interact with a 5D, that's why I also disagree.

Just imagine a 5D being physically interacting with a 3D plane/character.
Can you show a scan where it is mentioned that this place has more Coordinates, apart from being a "Higher Dimension"?
And well, what I am trying to say is that it is not mentioned or demonstrated to have more coordinates, since both as an additional axis both spatial and temporal, they demonstrate it, that is what I am trying to say, and therefore, in disagreement.
 
Wait hold up. I'm at work and keeping busy.

But doesn't the statement of heaven being comparable in size to the universe and then say both are infinite create a massive issue here?

That's basically saying they are on the same dimensional axis and also prevents one being uncountably infinitely greater.

And then we have a statement that says it's as wide as the universe.

I see this possessing an issue with the arguments
 
Wait hold up. I'm at work and keeping busy.

But doesn't the statement of heaven being comparable in size to the universe and then say both are infinite create a massive issue here?

That's basically saying they are on the same dimensional axis and also prevents one being uncountably infinitely greater.

And then we have a statement that says it's as wide as the universe.

I see this possessing an issue with the arguments
I think you are mistaking Heaven with Afterlife there (the former is a subset of the latter)
 
Wait hold up. I'm at work and keeping busy.

But doesn't the statement of heaven being comparable in size to the universe and then say both are infinite create a massive issue here?

That's basically saying they are on the same dimensional axis and also prevents one being uncountably infinitely greater.

And then we have a statement that says it's as wide as the universe.

I see this possessing an issue with the arguments
You are confusing afterlife with heaven,heaven is the size of living universe and is infinite afterlife is the one that contains heaven and is said to be dimensionaly transcendent
 
Not to be rude but do we not have a dedicated cosmology blog for the verse for people to understand what this blog means?

Heaven =/= Afterlife
I mean we do, but isn't still the one that composites the cosmology/is outdated? Unless i missed something, which is very possible
 
I mean we do, but isn't still the one that composites the cosmology/is outdated? Unless i missed something, which is very possible
The only thing that would be 'oudated' is this scaling to Super. Otherwise the information itself isn't any less true and accurate
 
I paste it here in case you did not understand it twice.


And well, what I am trying to say is that it is not mentioned or demonstrated to have more coordinates, since both as an additional axis both spatial and temporal, they demonstrate it, that is what I am trying to say, and therefore, in disagreement.
All dimensional objects have infinite temporal points though this is proven by a axiom and hypertime. Plus if we go by Gr we have to uphold the field equation of 3D+1D dimensional manifold not just a 3D manifold in non Euclidean geometry.

Seen a few responses confuse this up but heaven and the afterlife are separate things.

Heaven I will call dimension A dimension A is infinite in size
The afterlife I will call dimension B, dimension B holds the heaven thats infinite in size and its above/beyond the Universe as far as anyone is concerned i think we can all agree positionally its above the Universe we even see this via the camera. Dimension B is holding this dimension A esstionally.
 
All dimensional objects have infinite temporal points though this is proven by a axiom and hypertime. Plus if we go by Gr we have to uphold the field equation of 3D+1D dimensional manifold not just a 3D manifold in non Euclidean geometry.
Are you telling me that a place that is timeless according to you has time? Since when?
Seen a few responses confuse this up but heaven and the afterlife are separate things.

Heaven I will call dimension A dimension A is infinite in size
The afterlife I will call dimension B, dimension B holds the heaven thats infinite in size and its above/beyond the Universe as far as anyone is concerned i think we can all agree positionally its above the Universe we even see this via the camera. Dimension B is holding this dimension A esstionally.
It may serve as the main argument, but it is not the only thing to take into account, and by the way, update the disagreements.🙏
 
I suggest waiting for a knowledgeable staff regarding the standards and stuff like that don't look at me pls, I may be confident in my own ability but I can't rlly formulate a good enough explanation.
 
I suggest waiting for a knowledgeable staff regarding the standards and stuff like that don't look at me pls, I may be confident in my own ability but I can't rlly formulate a good enough explanation.
Also maybe please add onto OP on what has already been talked about in 6 PAGES
 
Heh. I shall change my vote to agree! Due to the arguements presented by many voters above obviously……
 
your help here would be appreciated. Truthfully everything is laid out in OP, does this conform to our standards?
Reading only the OP, the only evidence that could count in my mind is the transcendence statement which I don't see as being enough at face value. The OP proves the word "超越した" and the only evidence presented is the affirmation that it's transcendence in the literal sense. Looking up a Japanese-English dictionary its "transcend" or "supremacy" with the example sentence being metaphorical:
彼はl凡俗を超越している。
He rises above the rest of mankind.
あなた方は迅速にお金を超越し、商品に"人工的な価値"を付ける必要がありま す。You need to go quickly beyond money and putting "artificial value" on goods.
Olympia装置の機能は、従来のソリューションを超越し、柔軟なモジュール設計により、成膜と材料エンジニアリングの2つの機能を実行します。
The Olympia system's capabilities extend well beyond conventional solutions, performing the dual functions of deposition and materials engineering through flexible modular design.
It also gives examples of what the OP is talking about:
いかに 超越の感覚を生み 完全な世界を想像させるか
How do you create the sense of transcendence, the sense of evoking a perfect world?
Q 上 C あるいは R の超越次数は連続の濃度である。
The transcendence degree of C or R over Q is the cardinality of the continuum.

So to my research Lephyr the strongest piece of evidence is based on shaky ground. Unless the OP wants to argue that the Olympics dimensional transcende other sporting events they would have to admit that 超越 is not always literally, but metaphorical and used in that way very commonly in written media. In fact one of the definitions is literally just "stands above" and you can replace transcends with "stands above" and it makes the same level of sense.

Additional containing an infinite space can be done with a non-transinfinite space in the same way a 2-A space doesn't need to be 5D to contain infinite 4D spaces.

Overall, in my admittedly bias position, this is taking a quote talking about heaven having supremacy over the mortal plane and scaling it to an illogical level.

So list me as disagree for now.
 
Reading only the OP, the only evidence that could count in my mind is the transcendence statement which I don't see as being enough at face value. The OP proves the word "超越した" and the only evidence presented is the affirmation that it's transcendence in the literal sense. Looking up a Japanese-English dictionary its "transcend" or "supremacy" with the example sentence being metaphorical:



It also gives examples of what the OP is talking about:



So to my research Lephyr the strongest piece of evidence is based on shaky ground. Unless the OP wants to argue that the Olympics dimensional transcende other sporting events they would have to admit that 超越 is not always literally, but metaphorical and used in that way very commonly in written media. In fact one of the definitions is literally just "stands above" and you can replace transcends with "stands above" and it makes the same level of sense.

Additional containing an infinite space can be done with a non-transinfinite space in the same way a 2-A space doesn't need to be 5D to contain infinite 4D spaces.

Overall, in my admittedly bias position, this is taking a quote talking about heaven having supremacy over the mortal plane and scaling it to an illogical level.

So list me as disagree for now.
I do want to note 2 separate people from the translation team said the translation he used was correct
 
(神々がつかさどる超自然の世界 Kamigami gatsuka satoru chōjizen no sekai)
=
A transcendental/supernatural world governed by the gods


(天よりも高く人間界からは い知ることができない次元を超越した天の国神々はこの地から世界のすべてを見おろしている Ten yori mo takaku ningen-kai kara wa i shiru koto ga dekinai jigen o chōetsu-shīta ten no kuni, kamigami wa kono ji kara-sekai no subete o mioroshite iru)
=
Soaring higher than heavens
A world that transcends the dimensions and understanding of the human world.
From here, the gods watch over the realm



(死んだ善人が住む世界。【事】悟空が第25回天下一武道会の練習をした。Shinda zen'nin ga sumu sekai. [Koto] Gokū ga dai 25-kai tenkaichibudōkai no renshū o shita.)
=
A world inhabited by the innocent of the dead. (Note) Goku trained for the 25th Budokai Tenkaichi here.


(大全集4・P73/7・P36 Daizenshū Yon)
=
Daizenshū 4, Page 73/7 - Page 36


(【ア】閻魔大王によって振り分けられた善人の死者が集まる。Enma Daiō ni yotte furiwake rareta zen'nin no shisha ga atsumaru.)
=
[A] The innocent of the dead sorted by King Yemma gather here.


(宇宙と同じくらいの広さがあり、一面、お花畑である。Uchū to onaji kurai no hirosa ga ari, ichimen, ohanabatake dearu.)
=
Its as large as the Universe, and its surface is a whole field of flowers.
Here is the translation.
 
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