The Battle of Gods

[Akreious]

question, if the Universe size realms seperate from the living realm, Heaven and Hell, are accepted to have their own SP-TM, would this affect Janemba's Reality Warp feat?

I don't.... think so?

 

[LordTracer]

This feat is would STILL be a 3-A feat. It is not Low-2C because Goku and Beerus's clash was going to destroy everything within the universe, not it's space/time continuum. The fact that their power reaches the Kaioshin Realm is rendered null and void because the Kaioshin Realm is not universe sized.

Did you miss the part in the OP where I went over how Goku and Beerus only destroying what's inside the universe is a contradictory statement when they were going to destroy the Kaioshin realm that is outside the entire Universe 7 globe?

 

[DMB_1]

question, if the Universe size realms seperate from the living realm, Heaven and Hell, are accepted to have their own SP-TM, would this affect Janemba's Reality Warp feat?

Probably not, as Janemba was effecting only Hell itself, which is just a part of the Upper Realm.

 

[LordTracer]

You and the OP are making a claim that Goku and Beerus's clash would be low 2-C because their power would be felt in other realms like the Kaioshin Realm. That's not a Low 2-C feat at all, whatsoever.

Unless I'm missing something and you're referring to something else?

The claim is that one of the only two statements implying 3-A is contradicted by the feat itself, as the statement says Goku and Beerus' clash would only cause destruction within Universe 7. This is contradicted by the fact that they were going to destroy the Kaioshin realm, which is completely separate from the Universe 7 globe and can only be reached via the highest tiers of Shunkan Idō or Whis' time traveling Warp ability.

The Low 2-C part comes from the fact that the Daizenshuu states the mortal universe resembles our own universe, which is a space-time continuum and the Daizenshuu backs up the idea of it being a space-time continuum, all the moments in the series that should be impossible if the characters were 3-A (such as then landing attacks on Infinite Zamasu or Frieza surviving the Hakai), the notion that it'd be kind of absurd to say Beerus was holding back to a literal infinite degree against SSG Goku, etc.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Also the IZ thing: Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks were able to physically interact with Zamasu where they threw a Ki blast and it had a massive impact on his face. The reason why their attacks didn't work is because IZ is a fusion level character, he was even completely tanking Trunks' Ki blasts at 0:23. They even survived IZ's attacks and were able to go into a monetarily beam struggle. Goku was confident enough to fight him if he had a senzu and Goku isn't a character who'd lie like that. If they were just 3-A their attacks would have no effect on IZ and Goku would have no hope of fighting him, even if he had a senzu bean.

 

[Sera_EX]

Listen up, as I'm only going to say this once. Whoever is taking screenshots of people's discussions of this thread (or any other) on Versus Central or anywhere else, just to post it on another server best stop doing it or there will be consequences. That's the type of thing that creates tension which escalates to drama, and I won't tolerate it. Discord as a Direct Messaging feature, use it if you disagree with someone's opinions.

I'll spare you the details to prevent derailing this thread, but cease any surveillance and leaking screenshots of people's opinions about a fictional series just to (most likely than not) pick fun at it on your little server. This is the only warning you're getting.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Listen up, as I'm only going to say this once. Whoever is taking screenshots of people's discussions of this thread (or any other) on Versus Central or anywhere else, just to post it on another server best stop doing it or there will be consequences. That's the type of thing that creates tension which escalates to drama, and I won't tolerate it. Discord as a Direct Messaging feature, use it if you disagree with someone's opinions.

I'll spare you the details to prevent derailing this thread, but cease any surveillance and leaking screenshots of people's opinions about a fictional series just to (most likely than not) pick fun at it on your little server. This is the only warning you're getting.

This seems like an odd place to post this but thanks for the warning anyway.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Elizhaa
What are your thoughts on the Beerus Vs Goku clash going to destroy the demon realm as well? It is stated that the Demon is realm is in its own dimension that is in the universe/living world. It is also stated that magic has great influence in the demon realm than science.

It states that the only way to the demon realm is through a gate, and even references an episode of Dragon Ball where Goku used said gate to go into the demon realm. Do you think this further the notion of it being a low 2-C feat, not 3-A?

From this message here: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3556639#6

Going the the scans provided, the demon realm just a part of the universe. It not really a separate sapce-time like the Kaioshin realm so destroying it would not proved the clash affects spacetime so it could still be 3-A like the current rating.

 

[PowerToScale]

It does say "A world in a dimension on the other side of "the universe"". However, if thats the case okay then.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Eli is right about the demon realm.

 

[Dragomer]

So what's left to decide if it's accepted or rejected ?

 

[LordTracer]

I suppose just that, and I guess for Dark649 to get on and give input.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Listen up, as I'm only going to say this once. Whoever is taking screenshots of people's discussions of this thread (or any other) on Versus Central or anywhere else, just to post it on another server best stop doing it or there will be consequences. That's the type of thing that creates tension which escalates to drama, and I won't tolerate it. Discord as a Direct Messaging feature, use it if you disagree with someone's opinions.
I'll spare you the details to prevent derailing this thread, but cease any surveillance and leaking screenshots of people's opinions about a fictional series just to (most likely than not) pick fun at it on your little server. This is the only warning you're getting.

How's that related to this thread anyway?

 

[SuhSuhGuhSuhSuh]

It doesn't, but let's try to not derail; ignore it for the time being.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

So Dark649 hasn't been active for almost 6 days, was anyone else contacted?

 

[GojiBoyForever]

I agree with this.

 

[LordTracer]

I only contacted him. If there's anyone you can think of to ask, feel free.

 

[Sera_EX]

It's very much related to this thread, because it involes two users discussing this off-site (Lucky Emile and Pritti). The thread itself was even linked. Keep in mind I'm in a very bad mood in general, so my tolerance level is much lower than normal.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Yeah but...this is just a DB thread...like let's talk about jarring AP stats instead. Ok?

 

[GojiBoyForever]

@Sera

Perhaps you could make an announcement on this subject?

 

[Antvasima]

I support Sera. It is unacceptable to try to instigate drama, tension, and harrassment.

Anyway, returning to the main subject, if you want anything to happen, you will need to ask the staff members listed in the Dragon Ball verse page and the Knowledgeable Members List to comment here, preferably after first writing a TL;DR summary of the arguments.

 

[LordTracer]

Well Elizhaa already gave support to the upgrade.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

AKM seems to be tired of things involving this feat.

Matt is the last person anybody here wants to contact as we know well what he'll say.

Dark649 isn't on for nearly a week.

DDM's too busy.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you should ask Matthew as well, and preferably wait for the others. I think that we have had long discussions about this previously, and Low 2-C everybody was rejected back then.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I asked Dragonmasterxyz.

 

[Sera_EX]

Matthew won't comment anyway. I recommended he lay low for awhile.

 

[Antvasima]

@Sera

Okay. No problem.

@All

Anyway, my point is just that, as far as I recall, the staff has been heavily involved in this exact type of discussion before, and eventually reached the conclusion that scaling everybody stronger than "Beginning of Super" Goku to Low 2-C was a bad idea.

As such, you need similarly heavy staff involvement to undo the decision, and currently most of them seem to be too busy IRL, with schoolwork and similar, to take the time to in-depth argue about this issue.

So unfortunately this thread either seems to be a waste of time, or you will have to wait a rather long time for staff replies, and then accept their evaluations without giving them a hard time for trying to do their jobs. That would only result in them being much less eager to help out in the future, and as such almost no revisions will be possible to perform for any fictions according to our rules.

 

[Sera_EX]

Actually, that's the issue right there. Staff that clearly know and are into Dragon Ball don't want to reply to these CRTs because they become toxic. They get attacked just for doing their jobs in trying to keep our stats reliable. This is why barely any staff even comment on these threads anymore. They don't want to be dragged into the chaos DB, Sonic, Bleach, and Naruto threads create.

There's a "staff vs non-staff" mentality between these fandoms as well. We already have people saying nonsense like "lol wait till Sera or Matt gets her and the thread gets rejected just because of them" on this thread. People get very defensive on these things.

It's understandable that it is considered unfair that a CRT can be accepted by a group of non-staff yet denied entirely by one or two staff disagreeing. However, that's the oldest excuse in the book to feel like you're oppressed. The only power staff really have is the power of familiarity. That familiarity creates trust. Trust is why our words tend to have more weight. Without trust our ratings would be off the charts. All staff are told to do is prevent that. Additionally, even non-staff can have this "power", depending on their knowledge of the subject at hand. Agnaa and Pritti are examples. It's that simple.

Anyway, that's why the staff are reluctant to comment on these threads.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

There's a "staff vs non-staff" mentality between these fandoms as well.

Maybe change up the democracy of the place?

 

[Dragomer]

That's nice and all but it's kinda derailing the thread, the discussion itself has merits but it should it's own thread.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

^100% agreed. This topic shouldn't even been brought. Staff member or not, you're derailing the thread at hand. Even though it won't go through, but consistency is key.

 

[Dragomer]

^100% agreed. This topic shouldn't even been brought. Staff member or not, you're derailing the thread at hand. Even though it won't go through, but consistency is key.

I disagree with the assumption that it's already decided it won't go through, litteraly everyone's concern have been currently addressed and the two knowledgeable members who showed up agreed, for now it's going on pretty well and no one is having any issue.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm just going to point out some things. I agree that the current ratings should remain the same; at least for the time being. First of all, it's obvious the mortal Universe and the Afterlife are in the same timeline. And the Kaioshin Realm, it appears outside both the afterlife and the Mortal Universe, but it's still just another body of space as far as we know. I'm not saying it's impossible for it to have it's own flow of time, but that I don't think there's actually proof of it. Only the RoSaT is the only part that has its own timeline. But even then, it's more like a pocket reality with a Space-Time Anomaly rather than a Universe.

To quote AKM Sama

The cosmology is the same for all of DB regardless of it being from anime or manga. The representation could be inconsistent at times but it's still the one that Toriyama drew. However, I'm not interested in this debate anymore.

I mean there was a huge debate between several parties including Matt and SSJRyu about how we should treat the DB universe, and it was decided to treat the whole universe as one space-time continuum. There were arguments from both sides that looked convincing but that's just how it was decided to be treated.

And from that, Universe 7 was decided to be a Space-Time Continuum. There's still debate whether we should treat Universe 6 and stuff and wouldn't mind if all the Angels got downgraded back to Low 2-C scaling from Infinite Zamasu again. But there's definitely proof that alternate timelines exist and that Zeno can "Destroy all existence" so he's 2-C. As when Beerus hakai'd Zamasu, that technically became a different timeline. Because the Goku Black game from the what if timeline if Beerus and Whis hadn't throttled Zamasu's assassination. But all the current 3-A characters should remain 3-A, but Kaioshin realm can serve as further proof that the cast is far above baseline 3-A.

 

[LordTracer]

The problem is that one of the only two 3-A statements is contradicted by the fact that the Kaioshin realm is outside of Universe 7. Goku and Beerus weren't only going to destroy everything inside the universe, as the statement said. Every other statement is just, "the universe will be destroyed," one being the entire universe will be destroyed. And with the feats later in the series, as I listed in the OP, and the idea that Beerus more than likely was not holding himself literally infinitely back against SSG Goku, someone he thought he could fight as a rival, Low 2-C makes much more sense than 3-A.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I always miss the big Dragon Ball threads.

Can some one link the arguments here, I am curious as to the general consensus.

 

[Elizhaa]

I always miss the big Dragon Ball threads.
Can some one link the arguments here, I am curious as to the general consensus.

Basically:

• https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3556639#183
• https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3556639#185
• https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3556639#186
• https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3556639#196
• https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3556639#209

 

[Dragomer]

I always miss the big Dragon Ball threads.
Can some one link the arguments here, I am curious as to the general consensus.

Basicaly ? the BOG feat would be low 2-C instead of 3-A because the one statement saying it's 3-A is contradicted ('destroy everything in the universe') is contradicted by the Kaioshin realm being outside the universe and having no physical contact with it (making it very unlikely for it to be a purely physical destruction), leaving only the low 2-C statements about the feats.

Which is supported by the fact that the destruction would also kill the souls in the afterlife,which barring a few exception aren't physical beings, which couldn't happen unless the space time was destroying or we gave Goku the capacity to affect souls (which is unlikely given Arale's episode with Dr Mashirito's soul even if Goku didn't try to take him out directly)

I could be wrong but it seems to be what most people here agreed on (feel free to correct me)

Edit : Elizhaa did a better job than me apparently, i didn't even know you could link stuff like that

 

[LordTracer]

Basically, the 3-A statement of Goku and Beerus only destroying the inside of Universe 7 is contradicted by the feat itself, them destroying the entire universe makes more sense, these supposedly 3-A characters perform and survive Low 2-C things frequently (everyone being able to hit Infinite Zamasu being a notable example of this), etc.

Basically, the general consensus is that Battle of Gods is a Low 2-C feat and at the moment there is (including me) 19 supporters of this.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Okay - that logic makes sense, and to be honest, I always thought the feat was Low 2-C to be honest, but I want to here any counter arguments before I fully support the proposal.

So, what are the counter arguments?

 

[Akreious]

So far there isn't... really any? We're waiting on more staff input for the counter arguments, mostly.