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Alright, that is the main point of the thread after all.
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The Battle of Gods
- Thread starter LordTracer
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The ROTK.Dragomer said:
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Why are you guys always bringing up the Daizenshuu anyway when discussing Super? It's secondary canon to DBZ, the latest edition of which (compiled into the Chouzenshuu) was released two years before Dragon Ball Super. I could see if it was updated after the Tournament of Power arc to include information from Dragon Ball Super, but AFAIK no recent updates have been made.
DBS had multiple writers even between episodes. Why do we assume these newbies Toei basically plucked off the streets are well-versed in the Daizenshuu or even read the Chouzenshuu? They've shown they are inconsistent when it comes to cosmology. It's no wonder the manga (which mind you has its own issues) is more consistent than the anime.
We already have them writing nonsense like Old Kai saying everyone, including Goku and Beerus (a heavily suppressed Beerus according to you guys) would be destroyed by Goku and Beerus' fight. What??
Why is the Room of Spirit of Time even being discussed here? What does Vice Shout have to do with anything related to Dragon Ball Super? Nothing. These characters are universal, but not universal+ as the evidence for time-space is, as always, questionable and based on guesswork and secondary canon.
DBS had multiple writers even between episodes. Why do we assume these newbies Toei basically plucked off the streets are well-versed in the Daizenshuu or even read the Chouzenshuu? They've shown they are inconsistent when it comes to cosmology. It's no wonder the manga (which mind you has its own issues) is more consistent than the anime.
We already have them writing nonsense like Old Kai saying everyone, including Goku and Beerus (a heavily suppressed Beerus according to you guys) would be destroyed by Goku and Beerus' fight. What??
Why is the Room of Spirit of Time even being discussed here? What does Vice Shout have to do with anything related to Dragon Ball Super? Nothing. These characters are universal, but not universal+ as the evidence for time-space is, as always, questionable and based on guesswork and secondary canon.
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Entier universe automaticaly mean low 2-C when it's reaching a place not physicaly connected in any way, shape or form, a purely physical destruction can't account for that nor for destroying the souls in the afterlife and we know it's not because Goku can suddenly affect souls directly with a punch since Dr Mashirito's ghost is a thing.Pritti said:
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The RoSaT and Vice Shout have not been points of discussion since the beginning of the thread... the main point right now is the Kaioshin realm, which directly contradicts one of the two statements that say Goku and Beerus' feat is 3-A.
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- Universe 6 - requires dimension travel, exists separately from the universe: treated as a different space time.
- Realm of the Kai - requires dimension travel, exists separately from the universe: not treated as a different space time.
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How can you be destroying the universe on a purely physical level while also destroying something not physicaly nor spacialy connected at all to the universe ? it's not a rating question it's a basic logic question.Pritti said:
The only way you could destroy the universe while destroying the kaioshin realm is because you're destroying the space-time itself, which is the only way those two places are connected.
And once again, how could a purely physical destruction affect those souls ? it can't account for that while a space time destruction does, cause it doesn't matter if you're a souls as long as you're part of the space time continuum.
Litteraly the only thing linking all three things that would be destroyed is the space time continuum, it just doesn't work with a physical destruction.
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The size has no relevance, if it did I'll be 2-C. It's destroying the universe + a multi galaxy sized pocket dimension.
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I'm sorry but this is false equivalency.Pritti said:
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Thats a complete false analogy.Pritti said:
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No the argument is that its affecting something not physically connected so it literally has to affect time.
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Except the moon and your position is physicaly connected, space is a physical construct, show me where the kaioshin realm is spatialy (since you don't seem to understand what physical mean in this context) connected to the universe the same way the moon is in the same space as whatever position you are.Pritti said:
You blatantly misrepresented what i said.
And the moon isn't a soul so even if your analogie wasn't frankly nonsense, it would still only account for half my points.
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Lets calm down.
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>Goku and Beerus said to destroy the entire universe, including the realms of gods (such as Otherworld) and the Sacred World of Kais (which is outside of the universe)
>Goku literally is creating shockwaves that logically traverse 5-D distance (due to being outside of the universe)
>This is somehow equivalent to a baseball time-travelling to blow up a moon
We have statements indicating that the shockwaves traversed into other universal spacetime continuums (Otherworld has a different spacetime to Universe 7 as indicated by Goku in the Buu saga) and that the shockwaves travelled outside of the spacetime continuum (threatened the World of Kais) as well as several statements by gods (Elder Kai, Whis and the greatest god The Narrator) that they were destroying the entire universe.
At this point, I expect people to actually provide evidence that they were only destroying matter within the universe. There is plenty of evidence indicating they were influencing places outside of the universe entirely and absolutely nothing indicating they would only destroy the matter inside of Universe 7.
>Goku literally is creating shockwaves that logically traverse 5-D distance (due to being outside of the universe)
>This is somehow equivalent to a baseball time-travelling to blow up a moon
We have statements indicating that the shockwaves traversed into other universal spacetime continuums (Otherworld has a different spacetime to Universe 7 as indicated by Goku in the Buu saga) and that the shockwaves travelled outside of the spacetime continuum (threatened the World of Kais) as well as several statements by gods (Elder Kai, Whis and the greatest god The Narrator) that they were destroying the entire universe.
At this point, I expect people to actually provide evidence that they were only destroying matter within the universe. There is plenty of evidence indicating they were influencing places outside of the universe entirely and absolutely nothing indicating they would only destroy the matter inside of Universe 7.
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And the baseball going forward in time changes what?
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Analogy still doesn't work due to the shockwaves effecting a place outside of the entire universe's spacetime anyways. Her analogy refers to the spacetime of a singular universe whereas this statement refers to influencing spacetimes outside of this singular spacetime. It'd be closer to the baseball smashing through the spacetime of the universe and busting a galaxy in another universe.Sera EX said:
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You're asking someone to prove a negative. Your only claim for the Kaioshin Realm being separate is because of a map.Dragomer said:
You blatantly misrepresented what i said.
And the moon isn't a ******* soul so even if your analogie wasn't frankly insulting nonsense, it would still only account for half my points.
This is unnecessary. Chill.
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Your only claim for the Kaioshin Realm being separate is because of a map.
...An official map that is supported by the canon of the franchise this revision is about?
...An official map that is supported by the canon of the franchise this revision is about?
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This is unnecessary. Chill.ShadowWarrior1999 said:
The map drawn by Toriyama himself, one proof on my side, 0 proof on the other, that's like saying 'oh you can't ask me to prove that your proof that your claim is valid is invalid', at this point arguing is pointless.
That's how i talk, pal, i'v been talking like that the whole time if you didn't notice.
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No.Ted Ed said:
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Scans?Ted Ed said:
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Sera hasn't insulted Dragomer and Dragomer hasn't insulted anyone. Stop flinging around accusations, it's derailing the argument.
And, no. Using foul language isn't 'insulting'. At worst, Dragomer called the argument 'nonsense' which still isn't an insult against a person, it's an insult against an argument that he considers blatantly incorrect.
Take a chill pill and remember no one is trying to hurt people here. This is nothing more than a discussion regarding a series that many of the posters are a fan of.
And, no. Using foul language isn't 'insulting'. At worst, Dragomer called the argument 'nonsense' which still isn't an insult against a person, it's an insult against an argument that he considers blatantly incorrect.
Take a chill pill and remember no one is trying to hurt people here. This is nothing more than a discussion regarding a series that many of the posters are a fan of.
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How else would you destroy a place that is only connected to the universe by space-time while also destroying universe ?Pritti said:
How else would you physicaly destroy souls that have no physical form and are once again only linked to the universe being destroyed by space-time when you can't affect souls ?
The Kaioshin realm and the universe are both being destroyed so the nature of the destruction can only be low 2-C or the Kaioshin realm wouldn't be affect, cause there would be no physicaly / spatial link to allow the destruction / whatever is destroying the matter of the universe to spread there, so a A-3 destruction is ruled out.
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