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maybe but he left so scolding him is pointless and would only derail the thread the same way as answering it would.Sera EX said:Then he shouldn't have added that in the first place
I'm not starting anything, I'm calling out "muh bias" because it's a bad debating tactic.Dragomer said:maybe but he left so scolding him is pointless and would only derail the thread the same way as answering it would.Sera EX said:Then he shouldn't have added that in the first place
Also ShadowWarrior don't start this again.
What do you mean by this?Ultima Reality said:It's far more about size than the properties of a given structure.
There is two possibility : They destroy the matter inside the universe AKA 3-A or the space-time continuum AKA low 2-C and i presented two proof in favor of low 2-C, now it's time to either accept it or provide argument in favor of the only option.Sera EX said:That's not how burden of proof works.
No, it's not a physical layout, it include the demon realm that is explicitly a magic place where physics is a no-go, it's a cosmologic map that show the universe as it is.Sera EX said:Since people were bringing up the U7 map, let's talk about it. The map is a layout of the physical realms of Universe 7. The realms are not individual space-times. They are not separate from the temporality of U7. Time does not have to flow the same in every reach of the universe. That's not how time works.
Low 2-C cannot be achieved by thinking just because the fight was felt in the World of the Kais and that said world would be destroyed as well. It does not mean the entire temporality of U7 is being threatened. It means their fight is encroaching across the entire Universe (U7 map) and is affecting other physical and nonphysical realms but these are part of that same universe and have nothing to do with time. It's not saying time is also being threatened. There's no evidence for that. The only timeline threat in DBS is Zamasu's merging with the universe and it was explicitly shown to be affecting time itself.
Goku v. Beerus is a greater magnitude of 3-A, not Low 2-C.
I honestly have to ask how it make any sense on that one, without being disrespectful because i don't see the logic in considering it 3-A , which is directly refered to in the low 2-C definition as 'only destroying the matter inside the universe' when even the opposant argument just admitted it would affect non-physical realm, unless it was decided that matter counted as non-physical on a thread i didn't see ?Antvasima said:I think that Sera and Ultima make good sense.
Also, I love the Dragon Ball series. Just f.y.i.
The previous threads about this subject always concluded that the feat would be counted as 3-A because there wasn't enough info to say the characters meant that they would destroy more than that and the argument i brough up make that option an impossibility, only leaving low 2-C, you maybe never made that argument but it was the site's official argument on why it was 3-A.Sera EX said:I also never argued only physical matter would be destroyed. Destroying physical and non-physical phenomenon at the same time as no bearing on the timeline whatsoever.
Because there would be no progression/difference in tier between SSG Goku in the beginning of DBS and MUI Goku after the tournament of power.LordTracer said:How when everyone is already 3-A... they're all still universe busters, what makes Low 2-C so much more nonsensical...
Yes, the space time need to be destroyed and what else could they be destroying when the 'they are only talking about the matter inside the universe' interpretation is made impossible ?Antvasima said:Yes, the spacetime continuum itself needs to be destroyed for a Low 2-C rating. As Ultima said, you are referring to a range feat.
In addition, the statistics would make considerably less sense if we made virtually everybody Low 2-C.
Your whole thing is based on an error : i'm not talking purely physicaly because 3-A used the observable universe in their definition, i'm talking about low 2-C directly differentiated itself 'only destroying the matter of the universe'.Ultima Reality said:If it's affecting just the matter of the Universe, then it would not do anything to the beings of the after-life, after all, affecting just the matter of their beings will result in nothing. And considering they're doing physical shock-waves, this also isn't a hax feat - So it affecting Space-Time explains this the best.
I should note this is basically a non-sequitur here, there is no connective reasoning between the base of the argument (The Afterlife and the Kaioshin Realm aren't physical) and the conclusion drawn from it (Therefore Space-Time must also have been affected), which honestly seems very hasty and lacks any solid basis on any form of previously presented evidence whatsoever, no offense but people seem to just be inferring stuff out of thin air.
I've already said 3-A feats and below don't have to involve strictly physical structures. In the case of 3-A, the Observable Universe is just used as a reference and nothing more. It isn't exactly a stretch to assume Goku and Beerus would just destroy a non-physical realm which extends outside of their universe through the shockwaves of their attacks, space-time doesn't have to be involved here. It's at best a range feat, not AP, since, like I said, the latter has strictly to do with size, not the properties of a given realm.
Where does it state so ? even the closest statement to that is contradicted because it only talk about 'inside the universe' while affecting stuff outside the universe.DarkDragonMedeus said:I'm still with Sera and Ultima Reality regarding the 3-A characters. None of the mortals prior to the Zamasu arc should be Tier 2. It clearly states that their simply destroying every celestial object and every one in the universe, not the Space-Time continuum. And yes, they're effecting multiple bodies of space, and Kaioshin Realm is a space outside of the Mortal Universe and Afterlife, but there's no proof of it being an alternate timeline. It only qualifies as being far above baseline 3-A, but only Infinite Zamasu has the Low 2-C feat. And of course Jiren is far above that and same with the GoD and Angels, but we shouldn't abuse power scaling.
Dragon Ball is far from being the worst example of not treating 3-A and Low 2-C as a higher infinity. SMT and Dissidia Final Fantasy have numerous examples of Tier 6 characters trading blows with 2-A characters and Massively Hypersonic characters keeping up with Immeasurable speed characters. But still, Dragon Ball Super still has the inconsistencies that should be forced or overused. We cannot exaggerate the fodder underdogs nor can we downplay the god tiers or protagonists. The characters who've shown Tier 2 reasons can stay, but the ones who haven't should remain as they are.
I'm sorry, where is this stated? If you mean the statement about them only destroying what's inside Universe 7, the Kaioshin realm contradicts this as it's outside of the entire U7 globe. Which is the entire point of the Kaioshin realm being in the discussion. Once again, the Kaioshin realm is not what makes the feat Low 2-C. The fact that it contradicts the statement that would make the feat 3-A is.DarkDragonMedeus said:I'm still with Sera and Ultima Reality regarding the 3-A characters. None of the mortals prior to the Zamasu arc should be Tier 2. It clearly states that their simply destroying every celestial object and every one in the universe, not the Space-Time continuum.