Team Fortress 9-A Upgrade

[WeeklyBattles]

I mean...cool? Even if they were completely undamaged by rockets while at full strength that wouldnt make them upscale to 9-A, they'd just be 'At least 9-B', but seeing as they are still damaged by rockets and grenades and pipe bombs and weapons of similar calibur while at full strength there would be no reason for it.

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

It looks like this explosion from Meet the Soldier is significantly larger than it would seem.

If we look at the file of Meet the Soldier in SFM, at the side, it looks like this:



It's only shown as two explosions in SFM because of the perspective of the camera, and the viewer wouldn't be able to tell it was two since there was a cut in the video. But in Meet the Soldier, it is treated as one explosion, as it is the same explosion that soldier emerges from. (Where would the 2nd explosion have even come from anyways)

If it were to be calced, it would probably be a high end though

This is interesting if we are going with this.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I was willing to calc that but rtx said he would and then never did. I'm still willing to if you guys want

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

He wasn't, though. At a later scene all that can be really discerned is that it knocked out a few of his teeth and knocked him out, and he was already damaged before that point judging by the bandages.

From what I can see, Scout is critically injured after that. And it didn't seem like a direct hit given that it sent him flying at an angle. Meaning, that the impact of the explosion sent him flying which wouldn't be the case if the rockets hit him directly.

From the looks of it, I don't think so.

Not to mention an accepted admin is being ignored every time.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Not to mention an accepted admin is being ignored every time.

You do know that AKM agreed that he wouldnt scale to it in that line you quoted right?

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

You do know that AKM agreed that he wouldnt scale to it in that line you quoted right?

We need the other more people to have a say about it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You literally quoted him saying he disagrees with using it

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Hell in both game and lore even soldier and demoman get hurt by rocket/sticky jumping with their own weapons so it's not even like Scout is the only person to be hurt by rockets either

 

[Overlord775]

yeah, but like, can't a Pyro take two direct rockets before dying to the third ?

 

[TheGatememer]

If you want to calc it then go right ahead. I don’t really have the energy to care enough about this thread anymore.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

yeah, but like, can't a Pyro take two direct rockets before dying to the third ?

This is the same argument as scaling them to the Cow Mangler. They do not scale to stuff that kills them as that is like saying that all irl humans are 9-C because they can be shot multiple times before dying/can survive being shot multiple times.

 

[TheGatememer]

This is the same argument as scaling them to the Cow Mangler. They do not scale to stuff that kills them as that is like saying that all irl humans are 9-C because they can be shot multiple times before dying/can survive being shot multiple times.

The mercs have their 9-B ratings via the explosives. If you are arguing that they cannot scale to them/survive them (despite numerous examples showing otherwise) then are you suggesting we downgrade the mercs to below 9-B?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I was arguing against the logic of scaling them to stuff that kills them, not the tiers themselves in this instance

 

[TheGatememer]

I mean, of course it can kill them. 9-B/9-A attacks on someone with 9-B/9-A dura will eventually kill them.

anyways, honestly do whatever in this thread since I don’t really care anymore

 

[AKM sama]

I'd also like @Abstractions' input here since she is knowledgeable in TF2 and was a part of this thread earlier.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Abstractions already gave her input and she pretty much agrees with what some of the other staff members and former staff are saying.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

This is the same argument as scaling them to the Cow Mangler. They do not scale to stuff that kills them as that is like saying that all irl humans are 9-C because they can be shot multiple times before dying/can survive being shot multiple times.

Irl, human survive bullets not through durability but just through the bullets not hitting any vital parts. Cow Mangler is an explosion mercs survive, stop making false equivalences.

 

[Overlord775]

This is the same argument as scaling them to the Cow Mangler. They do not scale to stuff that kills them as that is like saying that all irl humans are 9-C because they can be shot multiple times before dying/can survive being shot multiple times.

you don't need to completly tank something to scale to it tho

also, bullets are a very different story than rockets, as they have actually very little force, but since it's in a very concentrate surface it packs a lot more punch, meanwhile rockets don't have any of that nonsense

 

[WeeklyBattles]

you don't need to completly tank something to scale to it tho

also, bullets are a very different story than rockets, as they have actually very little force, but since it's in a very concentrate surface it packs a lot more punch, meanwhile rockets don't have any of that nonsense

Problem is they dont even partially tank it, it literally blows them to pieces.

And i bring up my former example of making all irl humans 9-B because they can step on a landmine and have their leg blown off and survive.

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

So far it currently seems to be no 9-A physicals?... Unless... We count end of the line which had Heavy stop a train. although canonicity has been dubious, the stuff of end of the line have been in game and all so...

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So far it currently seems to be no 9-A physicals?... Unless... We count end of the line which had Heavy stop a train. although canonicity has been dubious, the stuff of end of the line have been in game and all so...

Wouldnt scale to anyone anyways, Heavy was ubercharged when he did that

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

I mean, of course it can kill them. 9-B/9-A attacks on someone with 9-B/9-A dura will eventually kill them.

anyways, honestly do whatever in this thread since I don’t really care anymore

Well at least we tried. :/

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

Wouldnt scale to anyone anyways, Heavy was ubercharged when he did that

Ubercharge doesn't enhance your strength it just leaves them slightly Invulnerable, and even so keep in mind ubercharge doesn't last very long and Heavy still ended up being in the scarp heap.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Problem is they dont even partially tank it, it literally blows them to pieces.

And i bring up my former example of making all irl humans 9-B because they can step on a landmine and have their leg blown off and survive.

It blows the to pieces in several shots. I can't stress that enough. Scout took three while already cripplied

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

Okay so here's some things from End of Line:

Scout manages to swiftly move from oncoming obstacles even with the train going REALLY fast (Trains go at at least 125-150 MPH)

And basically here's the Heavy train feat in particular, Uber only made him invulnerable but his strength remains the same so it should partially count. And keep in mind, just one cargo destroyed a big portion of a building there (Specially this part).

Mind you Heavy had his Ubercharge disconnected, not only was Demo literally FINE being under that debris but of course the Heavy was still in that sort of scrap heap and pops out fine to crater a Spy.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It wouldnt b a strength feat for Heavy, just a durability feat which is then mad moot by the fact that he was Ubercharged

Them being in rubble is not a viable durability feat as we dont see them being hit by stuff

 

[Overlord775]

it would be a strenght feat since he stood up against the train and causes it to crash

if it was just durability he would have simply been pushed away

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It wouldnt be though, its just durability, and again he was ubercharged so ven if it was strength theres no reason for it to scale to his base stats

 

[WeeklyBattles]

And theresalso the issue of End of the Line being dubiously canon

 

[Overlord775]

It wouldnt be though, its just durability, and again he was ubercharged so ven if it was strength theres no reason for it to scale to his base stats

no, it wouldn't, Ubercharged people can still be knocked away, so Heavy would have had to ACTUALLY hold his ground against the train or he would have been sent flying

also, Ubercharge doesn't change melee damage, so assuming it increeses strenght is nonsense

 

[WeeklyBattles]

if it was just durability he would have simply been pushed away

He was, in fact, pushed away

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Theres also the fact in-game an ubercharged heavy being hit by a train is an instant death, supporting this cinematic being dubiously canon

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The train is TF2 is modeled after the EMD GP38-2, which has a top speed of 65 mph ,or 29.0576 m/s, and weighs 113400 kg

Here you can see there are 12 freight cars in total for the amount of the train that hit Heavy

A typical freight car weighs ~30 tons or 27215.5 kg

27215.5 x 12 = 326586 kg

326586 + 113400 = 439986 kg / 2 = 219993 kg

KE = 1/2 m x v^2

= 219993 x 844.34411776

= 185749795.498 Joules, 0.04439526661042065 Tons of TNT, Small Building level

While the train itself does in fact have 9-A KE, Heavy did not overpower it physically as he was pushed back until the train upended itself from the rest of the train cars continuing their momentum while the locomotive was brought to a halt. Coupled with the fact that this cinematic is dubiously canon, that in-game an ubercharged Heavy gets instakilled by being hit by a train, and the fact that this is well above any other feat the Mercs are shown to be capable of surviving, let alone tanking with no damage like the video implies, this would be either a non-canon feat at best or an outlier at worst.

 

[Schwxnz]

Theres also the fact in-game an ubercharged heavy being hit by a train is an instant death, supporting this cinematic being dubiously canon

While the cinematic's canonicity is indeed dubious, why do you keep using in-game stuff if you were preaching that gameplay couldn't be used earlier? Stop using it whenever it suits you and be consistent for a change.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Because there are still people in this thread who are trying to use it

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Theres also the fact in-game an ubercharged heavy being hit by a train is an instant death, supporting this cinematic being dubiously canon

More like supporting the fact that game mechanics shouldn't be used to downplay TF2

 

[WeeklyBattles]

More like supporting the fact that game mechanics shouldn't be used to downplay TF2

I mean even without the in-game stuff theres still the fact that the cinematic isnt canon and even if it was heavy didnt physically overpower the train, just brought it to a stop via his ubercharge durability

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I mean even without the in-game stuff theres still the fact that the cinematic isnt canon and even if it was heavy didnt physically overpower the train, just brought it to a stop via his ubercharge durability

Except Ubercharge beam was cut off almost immediately

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Except it wasnt, the clip has been posted here multiple times showing that it was there for quite a while

And again the cinematic isnt canon so it doesnt even matter

 

[Abstractions]

End of the Line isn't canon, it's a community made fan video, having items in the game doesn't suddenly make it official in any capacity.