Steampunk ~What a Beautiful Discussion Thread~ 5

[Zereer]

@Qliphoth_Bacikal

Unfortunately, Reich's ability was not fully described even in the fandisc. It says that the true essence of his ability is "domination over every corner of space and every corner of the enemy's existence." Tesla also called this ability the manipulation of space. But, alas, there are no other details (except for what we already know from the main novel). Or I missed them somehow. All Reich did in the fandisc was to easily chop the guys that Cthulhu summons. But they were also destroyed without any problems by the other members of the Six.

Therefore, the true combat potential of Wilhelm is still not fully understood, I hope that we will see him in the future.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Ah.

That sucks. Would have been an awesome thing to have around on Reich here if there was more to it.

The text I got is the same but it mentioned something that sounded like it would have given Tesla resistance or something.

是こそが彼の異能。支配の異能。
かつて師と相対した時には最大の効果を発揮することはなかったが——
この程度、この海魔の雫程度の端末ならば。
空間の隅々まで支配して、>存在の隅々まで支配する。

This was his Art. The Art of Dominance
Once when he faced his master, he could not show its fullest potential but-
With this extent, against the terminal of sea demons.
He can dominate all corners of space, dominate every corner of their existence.

Although even if we add this to Reich, I wouldn't know what this would fall under. Man is Sakurai so vague with her series with stuff like this ^^;

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Is interacting with lightning a Non-Physical-Interaction feat?

Was thinking Reich and Douglas could get it, since the former's Art in his Shining Night character Bio states he can cut lightning and Douglas did this in Shining League.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I suspect if its dominating its some form of law hax? I mean it also grants him powers as he stated against tesla that he gains powers depending on the situation in order to win as long as he's using swords or smth. And they probably should get it if that's the standard

Also made a match: https://vsbattles.com/threads/cyber...ow-christ-vs-kyrie-kaijin-no-karsheel.110027/

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@TISSG7Redgrave Possibly. It can also be a form of space hax if he's also "Dominating all corners of space and existence" or, as at least the main novel puts it, whatever the battlefield Reich happens to take place in.

Tesla was hit by this when he was drained of radiance with Neon not around by the time their fight happened, yet the text above states he couldn't fully apply its effect implying Tesla was someone Reich couldn't overpower. And then ofc he went lightning mode and just stomped Reich from there.

If it is to be added, Tesla could possibly get resistance from this as well.

As for NPI, it should since I'm pretty sure lightning is not a physical thing and is made up of electrical energy. Technically M would get this too since he was implied to stomp Tesla if the Fullvoice Bonus Story is any indication but this would just be another addition of his existing NPI.

"Then you will need to know!
The sight of the blue sky!
The tears of distortions of the bright flames!
The only man to have survived the Jet Black! You will see the end of his journey!"

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

yeeep. Nyar always stomps poor tesla ooof. But yeah and the domination is only a specific area too i believe. Tesla getting law hax resist would be nice lolz

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Yeah lolol.

It's nothing much in M's case, but it is a nice addition. Not a surprising one either seeing as his Jet Black can devour paranormal phenomena and whole infinite universes beyond space, time and causality. That and he can insta-glare out those Shadow Doods the Society made.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I just remembered this.

@TISSG7Redgrave Tesla already has Law Manip resistance on his page. Granted this was when he was at his most fragile and weakest but using up the very last of his reserves fighting Rosenkreuz.

"Law Manipulation (Tanked Ultharathotep Rosenkreutz gaze which could reshape the world and its laws)"

So going on the aforementioned Reich talk, it would just be another addition if it's really some kind of Law Hax he has. It would still be noteworthy due to Tesla just being out of juice at that point before Reich slipped up talking about Golden King and unintentionally giving him the boost to just one-up him lol.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Hmmm true but it can be for reich himself ye. also didn't tesla damaged the bell before the story? cuz he did note in the walther fight he isn't in top shape after causing damage to the bell so he maybe stronger at the start but was stupidly low on juice

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Yeah. It's still pretty vague though, and IDK how strong Wrath King's "Bane of Fury's" are besides them being spilled out from his being and something about causing death via direct contact. There's also the matter of not making it sound too NLF-ish but since it couldn't affect Tesla completely even at his most weakest at the time, I would guess just anyone not above Reich would get OHKO'd.

More like he obliterated the Bell. Shattered it with his lightning even, and going by the CG he likely did it without using his Knight of Thunder. Although that could explain him not being able to transform at the start of his and Walther's fight until Neon showed "Radiance".

He did have some juice at the start becuz of Lily freeing him from Edison's Time Prison, which he then goes on to take out some killer organization and then ofc heading straight to Marseille.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

So I got bored after a while of waiting on Mangagamer's project updates (been a whole month right now.) and since I have not much else to work on for WAB, I pretty much gone out of my way to post up more stuff on my "WAB Stuff" sandbox.

A while back Redgrave and I were working on some stuff for Shinza Banshou but we didn't really have all important/relevant scans for updates, just only text but it seemed at the time no one really questioned it so I did the time by getting some stuff for Gahkthun and Inganock...if anyone don't mind it.

Qliphoth Bacikal/WAB Stuff

vsbattles.fandom.com

Qliphoth Bacikal/WAB Stuff

vsbattles.fandom.com

Not sure what other stuff is there for me to get since it's all from the official website of Shining Night and of @wiki which is the same kind of place that we source some stuff for Shinza Banshou.

Like Red's, my idea is just collecting any text of info I can get to see what else can be updated for the profiles.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Looks good so far.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Thanks. ^^;

It's still evermore amusing when you have to think these guys at the Academia can do this, and it's still just "parlor tricks" compared to Golden King's own Cracking. Even Tesla noted this when he and Walther fought lol.

Although considering they're really just "pieces" of power Rosenkreuz granted them, it's a pretty accurate comparison.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Speaking of Gk, his tier still bugs me, we have no calc for it. Atm he is High 6-B cause a calc member said that's what atomizing an island would be, years ago.

We could get something pretty definitive by having Ultharathotep as High 6-A based on having control over his cracking field which is the same area as the world, and then from that find his Base due to it being hundreds of millions of times weaker, but doing that would make his Base like 7-B, but his Base atomized an island though.

So even that doesn't feel right, but the Academy is an island city, and sizes of islands vary i guess.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I'm pretty much at a loss with that one myself.

One other option I have for it is like find an island comparable to the map drawn in the Novel Anthology. At least that's how I was going for it but gave up after a short while.

High 6-A Ulthrathotep

That would have been more exciting for the High 6-A brackets ^^;

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So, basically if we really wanted to fix it, we would have to lowball based on what i said then i guess.

People aren't questioning his tier or anything so not really an urgent thing, just that it's bugging me for years now.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Pretty much.

 

[RM97]

Speaking of Gk, his tier still bugs me, we have no calc for it. Atm he is High 6-B cause a calc member said that's what atomizing an island would be, years ago.

We could get something pretty definitive by having Ultharathotep as High 6-A based on having control over his cracking field which is the same area as the world, and then from that find his Base due to it being hundreds of millions of times weaker, but doing that would make his Base like 7-B, but his Base atomized an island though.

So even that doesn't feel right, but the Academy is an island city, and sizes of islands vary i guess.

Tbh it'll be good to put Base GK at Island tier. If you add in his Ultrathotep form's 100,000,000x power increase, it'll already get Multi-Continental tier which is consistent with how his Realm is the size of the surface area of the world.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

How do you get that? The value for High 6-A divided by a hundred million comes out to 7-B for me, that only works if you assume Ultharathotep is stupidly far into High 6-A, basically almost 5-C, and then divided by a hundred million, which isn't really substantiated.

We can't just decided his Base is island level, cause he destroyed an Island i assume? And then scale up from that, cause that's not how it works for tiers between 7-A and High 6-C. Ie destroying a mountain doesn't necessarily make you mountain level, and this gets even more complicated cause we don't have a standard for an average island size and even if we had that GK doesn't just nuke the Island he atomizes it.

In short that method is very wonky.

 

[RM97]

It's not really problematic to tier his base. Especially since he was going to one-shot atomize the entire island.

If you're insisting a calc, the size of the Island can be found. You can try to pixel scale the dimensions of the "Bell Tower" from the VN and apply that in the map given in the anthology novel to find the dimensions of the whole island. Then multiply it with the land elevation/altitude to find the volume of the island. Since GK said he was going wipe the island off the face of the Earth, it's safe to assume he would erase the island above the sea level. Final thing would be to apply the Atomization of Rock value on the volume found and that's about it.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I mean if you can calc it, that would be cool.

 

[RM97]

Yeah I can try to do that.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Reminds me that I was wanting to see at some point what Stone Golem's heat potency would be if you put a calc to it.

Its heat is said to evaporate people, and Upper Tier Soldiers were also burnt off by it although in their case they're said to just turn into ash by its heat. What's supposed to make this any impressive is Golem at one point destroyed a whole brigade of these guys with its heat, and a brigade of soldiers is...pretty big number. Like 3k-5k big.

I don't know if it'll be enough to ask or if the would-be result would be any different for Golem, but if there's anything worth to it it might give something for Golem. For anyone that don't recall, an Upper Tier Soldier is covered entirely in steel armor and are fairly taller than humans by being nearly 2 meters tall.

This may or may not also give an upgrade to Porshion since he tanked its flames and can one shot it in return.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

If i did the mental math right based on vaporizing 1 person being 0.069818 ton TNT that would be around city block level? It would need a formal calc, but Gii was fine against that heat, so ultimately would mean an upgrade for the characters.

You should probably request it calc.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

City Block Gii

Oh snap ovo

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

So I take it Gii, Kerkan, Petrovna, Lemure Lemure (I'm guessing), Dragon, and Grimm-Grimm would be the only ones to scale, right?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea, assuming it results in any upgrades that is, need a calc first.

 

[RM97]

Golem's heat was stated to be capable ofMelting Everything and it was bigger than buildings too to point it can destroy buildings just by moving it's arms. So logically it should also be able to melt the Buildings due to its sheer size and the statement of it's heat's potency being able to melt everything and capable of evaporating people. Where Melting a Building would be small town.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Low 7-C Inganock...whoa~

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Another topic now as we're waiting on Mangagamer to post anything about project updates (they're taking their sweet time to post them, really lol), I have a thought as to what Ulthrathotep's "destroy the real and illusory, the physical and metaphysical" slaps entails.

As you guys should know, Tesla in his youth was with Ben Franklin conducting an experiment that caused the former to make contact with the Spirit of the New World that is the Thunderbird, who is in fact also an Old One (remember, Old Ones are also referred to as "Spirits" and "Old Gods" among other names). This ofc made Tesla become an Illusion, and with it also becoming lightning in both body and soul. Ofc this should already be known to y'all, but since GK only used Ulthrathotep against an "illusion" like Tesla, this is probably what the part about "illusory and metaphysical" thing comes in.

This especially makes sense on "metaphysical" being connected to illusions as Sharnoth's FVR story had this when M's existence was being talked about:

"Then it is only a metaphysical entity.
They are an illusion, something that should not have a physical effect on mankind and the world."

Granted, Illusions may also be a bit of a broad definition in Steampunk's universe, as Jane Doe seemed to refer to the Meta-Critters that appear in London as "illusions" as well.

The point I'm getting here besides being bored waiting for Sona Nyl (kek) is having thought of what Ulthrathotep's slaps refer to when talking about destroying the "illusory and metaphysical". Pretty sure even Wrath King has this too for his slaps and spear, given he fought Tesla and all in Shining Night.

This makes sense given this is a verse where you can have either some green mineral embedded in your gun or blade or even fragments of it as bullets to harm and kill illusions and other supernatural beings like those formed out of human wishes and thoughts.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Makes sense.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Although thinking about it, is putting that under "Conceptual Attacks" appropriate enough or should it just be NPI but enhanced?

GK couldn't atomize Tesla both times when he was at his weakest and after Neon rescued him from disappearing, yet he had to go Ulthrathotep to start actually affecting Tesla.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Metaphysical as you said is broad, and it's assumed conceptual entities like M fall under that, well not really, cause it's why M is different cause he is beyond understanding and what not, not to mention being a type 2 concept, but essentially the assumption when M was said to be a concept, was that he was a metaphysical existence, so concepts seem to fall under that. Old Ones are type 4 concepts as well, and they are illusions.

That says more about Tesla than GK, Tesla's resistance is just that good.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Oh right, yeah.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cracking Beings also fall under "illusions" and "metaphysical beings". Grimm=Grimm for sure I imagine. Lily...well there's more to her but saying more would spoil the fun in knowing the Alice of Steampunk

IDK. I think I'm talking about this too in case someone were to ask any of us on what degree of "illusory and metaphysical" can Ulthrathotep slap out of existence. As I said, given his only use of Ulthrathotep AFAIK is just Tesla, it seems that's the benchmark of what his slaps affect in terms of illusions/metaphysical entities methinks.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well Grimm is a nonexistent being, i wouldn't put him as a normal example of a cracking being, GK himself would be an example of that, being an equation.

So yea wouldn't be comfortable to say GK can slap Grimm out of existence. I am comfortable to say he slap paranormal phenomenon and type 4 concepts out of existence.

Btw shouldn't M have resistance to fear and mind hax since clearly metacritters presence doesn't work on him? Though you could argue, it doesn't work cause it can't affect him in the first place due to be a concept.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

That's fair.

I would have said something along the lines of M just looking at GK with "Srsly?" if he were to take a slap from GK. Boi what resistance we'd give for him on that and how that scene would play out lol.

You probably could, but it can also just be due to him being a concept and such. Even the body of Moriarty he's using is just a meatpuppet for him to walk amongst humanity. I probably would have thought Moran would be better but she's similar in that she's not human at all.

 

[RM97]

Speaking of Regeneration, I'd say a few characters would get High-Godly Regen:

- Porshion (Considering it was already an abstract entity embodying a possibility and made up of Information, it got erased by Thoth but regen'd back)

- Ultrathotep maybe (Tesla's lightning can destroy information itself and Ultrathotep reformed itself back when it was heavily damaged by Tesla's lightning)

- Tesla maybe (Was able to heal from Ultrathotep's slap that destroys real, illusions, physical, and metaphysical and likely more powerful than the Gaze which destroys Critters which are abstract entities)

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I'm pretty sure if GK can regen from anything tesla will scale regardless. Though i swear what are the requirements of high godly. Mid is from EE iirc? But high must it be that + all info of u? Is that enough?

 

[Everything12]

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying concept(s) or information needed for them to exist.

Md-Godly is Regenerating your Body+Mind+Soul, not Existence Erasure btw. Its just Existence Erasure erases all those things a lot of time.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

By the way, the only weakness of the Gévaudan Beast is probably "sunlight", a set pattern of something impossible to destroy in the sunless world of Steampunk

Found this of Jin's comment about the Critter Douglas encountered at the end of Shining League, and whom Tesla also later help encounter to fight off.

Definitely a throwback to Inganock where Wendigo was a night creature and there being no actual sun so he used Porshion to create flames to burn it anyways lol.

Wonder if Tesla's lightning could count as "sunlight", since the Beast is no longer around and is mentioned in passing by the time the Dragon story incident came in.

Edit: Just to get the explanation about this, Tesla's lightning has always been sometimes referred as a flash of light. Normally that's what it is cuz it is lightning and it gives off a flash, but there are a few moments where he uses it, the narration would describe as being either a "searing light" or a light that burns which even the novel anthology described it when he and Neon encountered the Jabberwocky in Metaspace.

It might not be as definite as Gii's, but since Tesla's was always described as "light" and it's something that definitely burns you up, this probably brings it more closer to being likely that he could affect someone like the Gévaudan Critter Douglas encountered.