Steampunk ~What a Beautiful Discussion Thread~ 5

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So M was neither male nor female at one point, then took on the appearance of Moriarty, but it's still like from what i can tell, gender is irrelevant, he isn't a living thing or human, he is the concept of darkness.

M devoured St George, leaving no trace of his existence, sounds like existence erasure.

Who goes by the name of Omnipotent Man again? Leo right? His memory hax doesn't work on M.

Unless i am misinterpreting this, some witch disappeared, absorbed into Sharnoth probably, and her words are a record of physics, talking about the big bang basically, in this context it would be the dark universe, Sharnoth?

Aleister Crowley was talking about the black that drifts between planets, thinking dark matter, which is also M, it encompasses the universe, and the Engine Dictionary said M can exist in all areas of darkness, so makes sense i guess? Then wouldn't this mean M is darkness wherever it exists, or is this again just about Sharnoth?

M can see the Earth from Sharnoth, so cosmic awareness.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Aye. He was just Black, nothing else. Or as we know so far, he's the Jet Black/Pitch Black that makes up the universe.

Sounds like this can also apply to the Meta=Critters he ate up in Sharnoth. And if iirc, Dagon, an Old One, was also scared shitless of being devoured by the Black King/M so more stuff his Black can eat up.

Yeah, Leo was called the Omnipotent Man at one point in Sharnoth's WN. His usual title is "Universal King" or Umo Universal. Something like that.

If it's anywhere close to being right, that would be it yeah.

The Engine Dictionary states how M makes up one of the traits of the universe, which is that of Jet Black or all of the black that is in the universe (same way how Edison/Moon King makes up all of space-time in the universe, another trait of it). Considering Sharnoth and M are one in the same or its Sharnoth being another extension of him, I would think he just exists wherever there is black. At least that's how I interpret it.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

If he exists wherever there is black, that makes him full blown omnipresent, which is why i wanted to see if that interpretation is correct, cause it means a speed upgrade.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

ふるきものなと比べものにならない。蕃神は、黒の王は、現実、物質としての存在を可能とし、あらゆる暗黒を領域とする。
我らの惑星を内包する銀河、それの集う銀河団、さらにそれを所有する広大なる無限暗黒、すなわち、宇宙、宇宙におけるある種の形質のひとつが黒、暗黒、外なる神の一柱であるものだ。

It is incomparable to the Old Ones. The Foreign God, the Black King, a real one who can exist as matter and that which is all of darkness is its domain.
The galaxy that encompasses our planet, the cluster of galaxies it gathers, and the vast infinite darkness that possesses it, that is, the universe, is one of the many certain traits in the universe that is black, darkness, and one of the Outer Gods.

This is part of the Black King's Engine Dictionary Description.

[暗黑、黑暗.
漂浮在行星之間的非以太之漆黑.
包容了整個宇宙、即宇宙其本身、
與時間、空間相同、是這個世界構成的三大要素之一.]

[Black. Darkness.
The existence of the Pitch Black ether that drifts between the planets.
It encompasses the entire universe, the very universe itself.
It is one of the three elements that make up the world along with time and space.]

And this is from one of the stories you just read.

They seem to line up pretty well from what I got. In the line with "encompasses the entire universe", 包容 gives some meanings like "to hold" and "to contain". And 整個 is "entire/whole/total" next to universe which is 宇宙.

So yeah, Black King having all of darkness as his domain lines up right.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea M looks to be omnipresent to me.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

M being all of darkness and darkness being his domain would probably also help explain how he can eat up whole universes, or as the Fullvoice Reborn short story states, universes that are infinitely stacked and multiply endlessly (or however that goes).

This is also rather funny because M is all of the Black in the universe, while Edison/Moon King is all of the space-time in the universe.

それは、史実の世界から訪れた外なる神の一柱だ。宇宙における形質のひとつ、時間と空間を司りし外なるものヨグを喰らい、あらゆる時空における連続体となることを選んだ、残酷なりし歯車と混沌の時の神だ。
It is a pillar of the Outer God who came from the World of History. A God of cruelty, gears, and chaos who chose to become all of Space-Time by eating the Outer God Yog who controls it, becoming one of the traits of the universe.

Since one of the stories states that darkness, space and time are what makes up the universe, wouldn't they be occupying the same space more or less ^^;

Kek Tesla has EE resistance cuz he was stated to survive M's Jet Black lol

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

If M already encompasses entire universes, then eating it is simple yes, what's said here means he is all of darkness in the universe, but it's not said, from what i can see, he is darkness wherever it is in the multiverse, that would mean he is literally like 2-A via size alone lol. That would be real wonky to think about, that at one point 2 M's existed, both of which were everywhere in infinitely stacked universes.

I mean Edison is literally M just from a different universe, so he would have already been all of darkness too in his universe, but now is also all of space-time too.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Good point. I only see the characters for "universe" or 宇宙, so obviously I put it like that by what I see and gives me.

Yeah it's real crazy on Edison's part. Since now he's literally the whole universe then xD

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Looking at this M is nigh-omnipresent, he exists in all areas of darkness of the universe (btw looked at Methuselah, he is the same thing, both being darkness and what not, interesting), he doesn't exist everywhere within time nor space which are the other traits of the universe.

Edison is another M, thus also exists wherever there is darkness, but is also all of space-time, so he would just be full Omnipresent.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I had the same thought as well with that lol.

And makes sense.

 

[RM97]

M should be a Type 2 Concept because:

a) The Jet Black exists beyond Space, Time, and Causality of all the Universes in WAB aka Transcendental to all of Creation.

b) The Jet Black forms the Darkness which is a composing part of the World along with Time and Space implying the Jet Black governs Reality where affecting the Jet Black will affect Reality Itself meanwhile destroying Reality would not affect M (As proven when he devoured an Infinite Set of Universes in the past)

c) In the Lore, Shadow Builder existed before creation itself (Kid Mary and Charlotte recounting the Church's tale of Shadow Builder and God) and will likely exist even after everything is gone.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Interesting, makes sense.

So, who plans on making the CRT giving M nigh omnipresence, type 2 concept, existence erasure, and resistance to memory manipulation?

I am busy today so i can't.

Btw @RM97, mind posting a scan of the Church's tale of Shadow Builder and God? Or at least tell me what chapter of Sharnoth it was in? It's pretty cool info, which makes sense since in the short stories it was talking about how M has thousands of different names and humans worship him, but he doesn't care, and how the metacritters take the form of myths of him or something.

 

[RM97]

Interesting, makes sense.

So, who plans on making the CRT giving M nigh omnipresence, type 2 concept, existence erasure, and resistance to memory manipulation?

I am busy today so i can't.

Btw @RM97, mind posting a scan of the Church's tale of Shadow Builder and God? Or at least tell me what chapter of Sharnoth it was in? It's pretty cool info, which makes sense since in the short stories it was talking about how M has thousands of different names and humans worship him, but he doesn't care, and how the metacritters take the form of myths of him or something.

It happens in the end/Post-Credits scene of Sharnoth where a Kid version of Mary and Charlotte are playing in the Garden. Here are the scans but read that segment if you can.

Literally right after this conversation, Nyarlathotep's Eye pops up in Mary's Shadow to watch her, and then the VN ends.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Those scans aren't showing, but i watched the scene, amazing how things you thought was meaningless years ago, make sense when you get more info.

M existed before the universe as the darkness, disappeared when "God" said let there be light, who is God here i wonder? Then he shows up in Mary's shadow, again a showing of his omnipresence.

Got a little time, can make the thread now i think.

 

[RM97]

Dunno who God is but I think maybe Yog (Since he is the Space-Time) or Azathoth.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@RM97 Thanks for telling where it is.

Information like this can be hard when you try to reread something but you have to look back so many scenes lol

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

This now would have made a lot of sense for me to have hold off on those Sharnoth edits cuz then I have more to discuss but too late lol.

DK if I’ll do the M CRT but I’ll give it a thought if no one else does it first by then.

Edit: Although I will have to reread Sharnoth and check through for all the mentions about M/Black King, just so we have the scans to show for him and all.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Made the M thread.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Ah lol.

I thought you were busy and was gonna do it myself. Oh well ^^

Since I'm now just going through Sharnoth to refresh my memory on any lore from there, might as well do that for today. Maybe even get those other Sona Nyl stories I have in reserve to do. Want to get as much as I can done by the end of this month and into next year.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Thinking about it once again, M being an Illusion killer seems more literal now with how his Jet Black can devour shit without a trace.

Pretty sure he does this even in the VN to the Meta-Critters and their Hosts, but also towards Meta-Critters who are paranormal illusions born from human wishes and feelings.

And from looking at Sharnoth's OG Jap WN (cuz the ENG TL one is down, unfortunately), Dagon is also an Old One that was scared shitless of M eating him. And if you recall the definitions for Old Ones, they're illusions that were once part of the world that defined...well pretty much everything in nature and such.

Then there's him devouring those infinite set of universes beyond causality, time and space.

He's like the Golden King with his Sekime, but on a much larger scale lol. Can erase non-physical entities, and "physically" destroy stuff xD

 

[Zereer]

@Qliphoth_Bacikal

Great work, as always.

Heh, Sakurai loves to touch on M-related events and concepts with the most abstract and obscure phrases possible. But this is definitely interesting. Another mention of St. George. If I'm not mistaken, the "sword of St. George" was already mentioned by M himself in the web novel, as a weapon of great power, which surpasses the "army that can kill a god" of that guy (forgot his name lol), who was Weishaupt's subordinate.

And again, mentions of Crowley. I'm waiting for this guy to finally be shown in VN / LN.

@Celestial_Pegasus
@RM97

About "God". ATTENTION, further there are serious spoilers for the Angel Bullet story, if someone planned to read it - it is better to refrain from reading the further text.

Spoiler: About God

Towards the end of the storyline, the main antagonist is revealed, a magician named George Winters, the father of the main character (Sarah). If we omit all the details and go to the point - George created a "demon world", a dimension of eternal night, which expanded, threatening to encompass the entire planet. The laws of familiar reality did not work in it. It was a world of illusory creatures that were banished by civilization. George himself described it this way: it is the world before God said "let there be light." It has no boundaries between life and death, existence and non-existence.

As a result, George was killed, and the expansion of the "demon world" was stopped. But that's not all.

There is one more chapter after the credits (I don't know if it refers to any specific route, I didn't understand this). In it, the main character (Klaus) at the end encounters a powerful entity that lives in an endless world that visually resembles outer space. This being may be that very "God". I did not fully understand all this, and Sakurai, in her style, gave little explanation (or I missed something, since I did not read the novel completely). At least this cosmic guy is in one way or another also identified with "God". In the end, Klaus finds his strength in a strange way, shooting at "God". Judging by further events, it is implied that Klaus killed "God", or at least inflicted damage on him. The most interesting thing is that before Klaus makes the last shot, he hears a whisper of the "shadow of a clown" somewhere near him, this whisper says something about the nature of the world in which "God" dwells. It is worth noting that Angel Bullet also has a "clown", but he is, rather, an ordinary antagonist and a reference to Stephen King's "It". So I don't think the "shadow" belongs to him, he is, in my opinion, too insignificant character, just the antagonist of one chapter in the middle of the story.

So, I think you understand as well as I what I'm getting at. The connection between Angel Bullet and the rest of the WaB is a rather complex issue, of course. A few points requiring attention:

In the blog of a some Japanese man, I read that somewhere in the official materials related to AB, R. Carter was mentioned. Also in AB VN there is Blavatsky, in the chapter after the credits she says that her organization clashed with another organization (its name is not revealed), because of which Blavatsky had to change her name and start hiding. At the same time, the Celenaria fandisk mentions that Blavatsky and her organization are enemies of the "Society". There is also another reference in Gahkthun's fandisk. Amy March talks about the film of the same name (Angel Bullet), about the priest (Klaus, although his name is not revealed). If I remember correctly, this film is based on a book. And Tesla says he knows the author of this book. I don't remember if there was a writer of this kind in AB, but nevertheless.

Also, I definitely have to say that in general AB uses the classic concept of WaB "illusions", which already says a lot. Let everyone make their own conclusions.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Oh yeah, there was that too.

けれどそれも、彼にとっては、あまりにささやかなものだ。
黒の王たる彼を弑すには、あまりにも。

But even this was too modest for him.
Too small to murder him, the Black King.

あんなものでは、竜を殺す聖ジョージの剣たりえない。
あんなものでは、暗がりの腕を反らすことも叶うまい。

Such a thing was not the sword of the dragon slayer, St. George.
Such a thing would not be able to bend even the arms of darkness.

「どうです。気付かれましたかな、この、壮観なる殲滅の徒はすべてあなた１柱のためのものだ。６６名の殲滅部隊、模造ファウスト５基、カダス北央帝国製機動要塞２基、機関化兵１個中隊、戦闘用影人間５４０体。神性もどき１柱を弑すに充分な戦力だ」

"What do you think? If you notice, this spectacle is all to get rid of the likes of you: 66 Annihilation Troops, 5 Copy Fausts, 2 Mobile Fortresses from the Northern Central Empire, a company of Engine Soldiers, and 540 Shadow Humans. This is enough firepower to kill a single God like you."

This says a lot about what M/Black King thought of St. George. He was a pretty famous dragon slayer in Europe after all.

And lol at this army though lol. The funny thing is the 66 Kill Troops or whatever have guns that can destroy land tanks and are embedded with Green Stones, so they can harm and kill illusions and other beings like Meta-Critters and Old Ones. Yet if only they knew they were saved from a major stompage from M here lol.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Affecting illusions and paranormal phenomenon is a lot different from affect an type 1 abstract of a type 2 concept.

I actually want to see M be harmed, too back George is already dead, cause then we might have gotten something like "The arm of the Crawling Chaos was cut in half along with its entire body. However such a thing couldn't be considered an injury, as so long as darkness exist, so too shall it".

Really want him to have that sweet mid godly regen, some omniscience would be nice too.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Yeah, which is why M wasn't fazed from it either from how the WN described some of the above confrontation.

That would have been juicy AF. Although I guess being alone for so long caused him to consider assisted suicide or however the thing works with getting yourself killed by having someone involved with ya. Had he gone to earth sooner to meet the original Saint George, I'm pretty sure he could have had one hell of a fight with George to do that.

Although the image of George vs a God of Jet Black back in the day would have been quite the shocker for his legend and amusing. That or M takes the form of a Jet Black Dragon so as to fit the legend better.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Speaking of M taking the form of a dragon, you remember any instances of him shapeshifting? What first comes to me is that fact that he is literally just a concept without a body, and only recently took on an human appearance.

Don't remember anything about him using telepathy off the top of my head though. I guess cause he was able to mess with Mary's mind using her memories, which requires him actually looking into her mind to know those memories.

Just trying to add scans to his profile.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I have this I just got from when he met Bram Stoker while the latter's Meta-Critter was chasing Mary.

And the above is M shapeshifting his head again to do some weird...extracting thing cuz Mary got "infected" with the water in the city she was in during the WN that was filled with Dagon's terror.

I'd show a couple more but...those other ones are very NSFW from what I just relooked at. I would say that M using his Equation would count but I'm pretty sure that's used to unravel part of his human body (puppet) to use, well, part of his true form to kill Meta-Critters and the like.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

By NSFW, you mean the tentacles right lol.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Yes xD

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

While looking through scans on M's profile, found this.

Charlotte Brontë looked at M and didn't even shiver or cry, and we know M's presence causes people to feel fear, she should have resistance to fear manipulation, Mary too considering she also showed no reaction to M.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Noice.

Can't wait for more stuff to update Steampunk with. Currently going through the Sona Nyl stuff so when the VN finally drops, I can have everything prepped and ready to post.

There's another M update that'll come up gain but since it's related to the Engine Dictionary, that'll have to wait.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

You can add that to your Sharnoth thread.

Btw what sort of M update are you talking about? Like some new abilities?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Just another addition to power bestowal and cosmic awareness.

Both are related to A gaining his latest Critter after Sona Nyl, which you only get to learn through the Engine Dictionary and Eye of Hypnos.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Meaning with A's new critter, he gets some of cosmic awareness? Like he can see the entire universe or something? That would be cool.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Yup.

A actually accessed some of M's Jet Black to create his new Critter, Howler in Darkness, which M even gain a small portion of his original power to form such a thing. Hence why the description for it is even called "Kin of the Black King".

How M even knew when and where A did it could have been in Sharnoth or something, cuz he did some weird "connect" thing with A to see what was going on.

Spoiler: M's Power Bestowel

一九〇八年、背の高い誰かが己の影から喚び出した闇に砲えるもの (ハウラーインダークネス) の疑小な模造品 (レプリカ) は、黒の王がその元力の僅かな一部を代し与えたものではあるが、王が何かに助力をしたのはいつ以来のことだろう。
人よ、覚えているだろうか。

In 1908, a tall figure summoned out of his shadow a Replica of the Howler-in-Darkness, which the Black King had given a small portion of his original power to, but when was the last time he helped with anything?
People, will you remember?

There's more to it, but there's a reason why M has an interest in A enough to do this, which is why I'm still withholding the rest of the info from Engine Dictionary for spolier reasons...well this one also is one anyways but you get my point lol.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Now that i think about it, M isn't even a living thing, he is just darkness, wouldn't that give him type 7 immortality?

He has type 1 cause he can't ever die, but if he is not alive in the first place, then yea he can't die, type 7 might make more sense.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Maybe? Its description tho makes me wonder if he counts as undead or not.

• Undead: Characters who cannot die due to technically being already dead, often overlapping with other forms of immortality.

It says he's not living but I wouldn't know if there's any that says he's dead or undead either. Just that he's Black, Darkness, a part that makes up the world in Steampunk.

Maybe it counts, but IDK.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I wasn't too sure about Type 7, was just the closest thing i could find think of.

He isn't alive, but he isn't dead either. he is just Black. It's like saying darkness is dead or alive, it's not either.

Maybe type 5 then?

Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.

I think it makes sense cause he isn't alive or dead, in a conventional sense.

 

[RM97]

He should have both Type 5 and 9

Type 5 because he is an Abstract Concept

Type 9 because he exists beyond all of Time and Space of the entire Multiverse

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Makes sense.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Yo, @Zereer

If and whenever you see this, I gotta ask this seeing as how you've been doing a lot of updates to the Steampunk pages over at that Russian ACF Wikia site (great stuff btw. Really a step up improvement from how it was for a while).

I see stuff like Reich's, and noticed that he's got something for his Art that's only detailed in Shining Night. How does that work in effect in battle? Atwiki gives me some text of what it details but there isn't much to it other than that, and something about Reich's swords being made of Elydieum or however that's romanji'd, which Douglas and that Saint-Exupéry kid also has for their stuff.