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Though take it with a grain of salt since last I heard (December 17th) is that Sona Nyl is still being worked on.
 
Well I'm just hoping a public update happens anytime around this month or Feb even. Just anything works for me at this point, really.
 
Based on what you both said, the scaling would be something like this:

Edison+Yog > Edison = M > Yog

So M should likely scale too.

Edit: Unless ofc there's some specific stuff or missing context where normally Yog > Edison or M. Which would mean Edi-Yog > Yog > Edison = M
I guess that would be right then.

If Yog was actually superior to Moon King who was just another Black King/M in another universe, he/it wouldn't have been devoured in the first place.

Even if we treat Yog as like the OG Yog, Edison and most likely M even would still superior given that their Jet Black (or just Black even) exists outside of space, time, and causality, and ofc the aforementioned Edison outright devouring Yog to become the new embodiment of Steampunk's space-time.

The Engine Dictionary didn't really say anything else about Yog from what I remember, so what I said about him/it being like its OG mythos counterpart is more headcannon-ish but it probably wouldn't matter since the info still has Edison having done the deed at some point in his existence, and leading ofc noting how he's much more different from the Black King because of this like becoming all of space-time and whatever other junk there is of him.
 
Ah right, I just remembered I volunteered to make the latest CRT. Just had a lot going on these past couple of days recently so I haven't gotten around to it.

So latest mass one I recall for this is the immortality change of M, adding fear and mind resistance to Mary who can get near Meta=Critters and not have her mind shattered and even will herself out of the terror effect (might also be an addition for willpower for her considering she does this several times throughout the VN), the tier downgrade for Gahkthun and upgrade for Inganock, as well as the regeneration upgrade for Porshion and possibly Ultharathotep and Tesla.

There are a couple things I have mind I wanna add but I gotta check through some stuff first before I get to making the CRT later.
 
Draft of upcoming CRT

I have never done a CRT for a long time so this is honestly quite a ton lot than what I really needed to put here lol.

There are no scans for this but they will be put on there later. I definitely have to cut a whole lot down to make it simpler while explaining the proposals, the draft here is just a rough draft to get ideas for it before actually posting it.
 
It's mostly fine, some of my thoughts:

  • The Stone Golem calc is 5.5 Kilotons, town lvl starts at 5.8 Kilotons. Gii one shot Golem, i think we can put Gii and other top tiers as Town level, considering how close Stone Golem was to it.
  • I think High Godly for Porshion is solid, for exactly what's said there Critters and Kikai are phenomenon that can exists as pure information and Kerkan can completely erase them, and Porshion comes back from that.
  • The reasoning that Tesla can destroy information, thus when he destroyed GK he completely erased him, info included, i think is faulty because the info Tesla has shown to destroy is basically while he was inside of a network where everything is info, basically i don't think this is enough as High Godly requires that the info is fundamental to the person's existence, which it's not here cause it's not said that everything in the world is made of info or that info is apart of them or whatever, it's just something things take on when they enter the network.
  • I do agree Tesla's npi should extend to Critters but it's a different matter to say he can completely erase them from existence like Kerkan does, so don't think that warrants High Godly.
  • I do think Tesla and GK do have High Godly based on the hands, they tear through all creation, destroy all things, physical and metaphysical, real and illusory. Illusory has been used to refer to Old Ones who are type 4 concepts, and when M was stated to be a concept, he was said to be a metaphysical existence, so concepts clearly fall under there, and Tesla regenerated from being destroyed by the hands.
  • Tesla's reality warping and concept resistance should go, it's based on the assumption that he tanked GK's hands, but he didn't, he just regenerated.
 
It's mostly fine, some of my thoughts:

  • The Stone Golem calc is 5.5 Kilotons, town lvl starts at 5.8 Kilotons. Gii one shot Golem, i think we can put Gii and other top tiers as Town level, considering how close Stone Golem was to it.
  • I think High Godly for Porshion is solid, for exactly what's said there Critters and Kikai are phenomenon that can exists as pure information and Kerkan can completely erase them, and Porshion comes back from that.
  • The reasoning that Tesla can destroy information, thus when he destroyed GK he completely erased him, info included, i think is faulty because the info Tesla has shown to destroy is basically while he was inside of a network where everything is info, basically i don't think this is enough as High Godly requires that the info is fundamental to the person's existence, which it's not here cause it's not said that everything in the world is made of info or that info is apart of them or whatever, it's just something things take on when they enter the network.
  • I do agree Tesla's npi should extend to Critters but it's a different matter to say he can completely erase them from existence like Kerkan does, so don't think that warrants High Godly.
  • I do think Tesla and GK do have High Godly based on the hands, they tear through all creation, destroy all things, physical and metaphysical, real and illusory. Illusory has been used to refer to Old Ones who are type 4 concepts, and when M was stated to be a concept, he was said to be a metaphysical existence, so concepts clearly fall under there, and Tesla regenerated from being destroyed by the hands.
  • Tesla's reality warping and concept resistance should go, it's based on the assumption that he tanked GK's hands, but he didn't, he just regenerated.
  1. Ah. Well, it is 5.56 Kilotons but rounding it down doesn't matter. And yeah. Like I put, Gii one-shotted this with Porshion before it's evolution. He also one-shotted Dragon at some point around the story who we're told by Ati as being the strongest of all Critters in Inganock which should include Golem and possibly Blood Tree's main body. Although if that doesn't work, "at least Small Town+" or "Small Town+, likely Town level" can suffice.
  2. That's good.
  3. Guess that's fair. He and Neon were still in Wallace Network/Metaspace and it was made clear for them to destroy it before it leaves.
  4. Yeah. I already added that to his page a while ago but it's only as possibly for the reason that we just don't know to what extent he fought it against but the fact that the Critter is only mentioned in passing as an event Tesla was apart of that still gives it some evidence for it.
  5. Oh that can work in that case then.
  6. Makes sense. While he did endure being whaled on by GK's hands, the narration made it clear that Tesla was being shattered and crushed by the hands before he regenerated from that...and later again when Neon saved him sometime after their fight ended.
I'll make those adjustments later. I might not actually post it today but it should come tomorrow for sure if I don't have time or do all of it tonight on my end.
 
Stone Golem is literally like 0.03 away from being town level, i don't see how Gii, Kerkan etc wouldn't be town via Gii being able to one shot golem, the gap is just way too small for anyone to make that argument (this has to be the closest any Low 7-C is to 7-C lol).

Cool, will look forward to the crt.
 
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"5.5639572 Kilotons of TNT"
Town starts at 5.8 Kilotons

HMMMMM~

Eh, I see your point either way.

And yeah I just have a lot on my mind rn but it definitely should come no later than tomorrow at best. I just gotta get the scans, rework the proposal, and we should be good to go. Also forgot the Gahkthun downgrade for GK, Tesla, and Mathers now that I remember but it'll be on there too for sure.
 
I'm quite sure 0.24 KT difference is like Multi-City block level difference. So simply one-shotting shouldn't make them jump the tier difference unless there's some multiplier or something else involved. So I'd say "At least Small Town, likely higher" would be more appropriate
 
Interesting. Also yeah M should scale to edison because edison is superior to yog but after devouring yog edison became stronger than M and prior to that those two were even steven which they can likely do what the other can. And noice CRT

And since yog is the time and space of WAB while existing outside of it then 1-A OVO
 
@RM97 That's also a good point. It's still relatively close though. Honestly, the one time I've seen something like this happen to my knowledge was this DC CRT where several characters got upscaled from Batman whose like just .01 Tons away from hitting the very baseline of 8-C (basically several characters from DC now being 8-C from upscaling from Batman whose a 9-A+ that's on the very edge of hitting 8-C).

@TISSG7Redgrave Pretty sure we already talked about that of M and Edison scaling to each other. Or moreso Edison/Moon King/Tick Tock Man scaling to M because he's just another M/Black King from another universe. Honestly though, Yog being able to control and embody all of space-time yet Edison, another Nyar/Black King devouring seems rather fitting for how the Crawling Chaos Jet Black is beyond space and time (and causality). Too bad it was the Moon King that did this and he's pretty much classic Mythos Nyar to boot lol.
 
Bruh I just want Sona Nyl out already man lol. I got all of those Sona Nyl stories on my blog drive just collecting dust here and there xD
 
I'm quite sure 0.24 KT difference is like Multi-City block level difference. So simply one-shotting shouldn't make them jump the tier difference unless there's some multiplier or something else involved. So I'd say "At least Small Town, likely higher" would be more appropriate
Yea a MCB difference is pretty big, might as well just make Pre-Evolved Gii and Kerkan and those who scale just At least Small Town level.

As for Post Evolved, don't really think we got any multipliers or anything. We know Kerkan can't harm Petrovna, she also said she can kill any kikai user, and that Gii's fire and heat were useless, So Petrovna>Pre Evolved Gii and Kerkan.

Post Evolved Gii took no damage from her tentacles, though to actually kill her he stole her time.

So we have Post Evolved Gii>Petrovna>Pre Evolved Gii and Kerkan>Stone Golem.

Albeit pretty sure Gii himself said Kerkan was stronger Pre Evolved.

Would be fine if they are just At least Small Town level really, considering how much bigger the gap is than i thought.
 
@Celestial_Pegasus Kinda but it's a little vague.

Here. The narration states that Gii just wasn't sure he would win even if his and Kerkan's Kikai were equal. So Kerkan probably edges over Gii but not a lot from how I look at it?
 
Actually, since we are doing a CRT for even M, I'd like to add that M/Black King should get Nonexistent Physiology (Type 1)
Reasons are:-

"ならば暗がりとは、夜の暗黒とは何か。それは幻想だ。文明と叡智の灯りを手にする以前の人類すべてが有していたもの、世界に対する理解そのものであったはずの無数の幻想たち。すなわち、在らざるものたち。文明の投げかける輝きの中では目にすることさえあるはずもない、夢まぼろしのもの。"

Which when translated gives this:​
"Then what is darkness, what is the darkness of night? It is an illusion. Countless illusions that should have been the very understanding of the world that all of humanity possessed before we had the light of civilization and wisdom in our hands. In other words, things that do not exist. Things that are not there, things that are a dream, things that cannot even be seen in the glow of civilization."

So it's clear that Darkness is non-existent due to being an Illusion. Considering how Illusions are ideas that are dreamt/thought up by Mankind as per the quotes posted by Qliphoth_Bacikal in the thread, it means that they are simply Abstracts. We do know that Abstracts don't have any physical existence in the first place to begin with. So we can say that Darkness, and illusions, are non-existent in reality as they are simply ideas and thoughts.​

  • I'll link the Sharnoth Section of my Blog here since too many scans, but basically, Sharnoth, which is an extension/aspect of M, is Nothing because of how M feels nothing. This is literal because Sharnoth was repeatedly stated to be a realm of complete nothingness and anyone or anything (including Sound itself) gets absorbed and becomes a part of it. This is a clear indication of how anything or anyone absorbed by Sharnoth becomes a part of it aka Nothing.
 
Oof just when I thought we'd be almost done with M side, we get this for him that was overlooked like some other stuff lol.

I can see that for illusions, yeah. And we know M is one given even Sakurai referred to the Black King (and Moon King in fact) as one.

It fits with the nature of them also being called Old Ones, or at least how they're known in Kadath as while the illusions of old may be referred by many names (spirits, faeries, gods/old gods, etc.), Old Ones are just Old Ones. They are illusions, fantasies that humanity once dreamt and thought that was warm and filled the world yet had no form that either existed as living beings or may have well even been some kind of meta-/higher-order existence (kanji for that could mean either of those) back then before all but a select few (Black King/M, Moon King/Edison/Tick Tock Man, several transcendent races like Dragons, and maybe the Gods of Irisia/Elysia) remain due to the advancement of civilization.

In any case, this at least gives them non-corporeal and AE Type 1 (with varying degree between M and the rest of the Old Ones). Adding Non-existence though....OOOOH~
 
Alright gonna be out for a little while but here's the latest update.


Added some more stuff for M including a short version of something he does in the Engine Dictionary. Maybe I'll add one more seeing as I might as well cover all of M here in this one CRT with more text from the Engine Dictionary (only in relation to M though, nothing more beyond it cuz otherwise we're hitting heavy territory of spoilers)
 
Tesla is very weird, he is an illusion as he was cursed by an Old One, and his body and soul are lightning, not to mention green stones or whatever can harm illusions like him, yet at the same time he does have a physical body and can be harmed physically.
 
Yeah...it could also just be supporting evidence if anything.

Dagon was subdued and captured by the Illuminati due to them using Green Stones to help interact and harm it, yet was scared straight with just the thought of being harmed (devoured) by M. Obviously it’s because it’s M, but I feel that what the WN implies shows that M can also interact with illusions like the Old Ones.
 
If we accept Old Ones as being nonexistent cause they aren't real, just illusions dreamed up by ppl, that means Berta, Josephine and Moran can interact with non-existent beings.

Gk too, he gets more broken, if somehow you don't get atomized by his gaze, he slaps you destroying you regardless of whether you're nonexistent or not.
 
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I mean it makes sense. GK gave the members arts which we have to remember their organization is famous for doing things to them. I mean one can argue that GK even has high godly neg cuz he wore down tesla but due to him being "fragile" i'm unsure. would be nice doe
 
Think that’s all there is I got about the nature of illusions/Old Ones. M’s one example of such but his existence as an illusion is beyond the rest of the Old Ones. The Thunderbird was said by Keziah Mason as something which shouldn’t exist but this may also just be in reference to illusions no longer having any place in the present.

At the very least we know Illusions/Old Ones are non-corporeal abstracts of nature and other such elements (M being all of Black, Tesla being the embodiment of lightning, etc.)
 
@TISSG7Redgrave Probably, yeah. The Arts are still rather potent even though they’re as limited as the Cracking seen in Inganock.

Walther acceleration? Limited form of Cracking.

Berta controlling 100k Automatons or one giant sized mecha and can even increase their capabilities? Limited form of Cracking.

Emilie being able to process complex calculations in her head passively and do a bunch of other stuff with it? Limited form of Cracking.

Jo being able to force anyone to do what she wants, even someone whose not even so much a human? Also limited Cracking.

Even Reich and Florence’s Arts are powerful and they’re just but slivers of the Cracking Effect’s power.
 
So I got more stuff that the Black King likely should get. Seeing as Baron is really just another aspect of M, or rather an aspect of the Black King that M and Baron are derived from, we should give them...well whatever ability Grimm=Grimm has that allows them to become an illusion in someone's "vision" and edging away whenever they try to look at him.

(Scans of that here) + Got another form of evidence of M/Baron/Black King having no life (here, here2, here3, here4) thus putting more evidence for Type 5 Immortality.

As for other stuff from the Engine Dictionary, here's the full chapter surrounding the Black King (ruby text outright has "Nyarlathotep", yet again telling who exactly M really is and all that). This will explain the stuff I mentioned a while back but I will say that this is the last time I'm gonna be posting anything of the Engine Dictionary cuz anything more not only would end up spoiling some things for Sona Nyl (cuz it happens AFTER the main VN) but also the fact I know it won't be as fun to read them even if you guys still don't mind it.

So yeah...worth a spoiler tag here even for that matter. Really, I feel like I kill off some of your guys mood every time I post anything from the Engine Dictionary even if it's mainly just the Black King for the most part.

On another note, looking over RM97's WAB blog, I realize that M has so many things that I think his stuff alone really deserves a CRT of its own. That dood has so much that he could have a CRT of his own at this point lol. I may have to actually save him for another time then and just stick to doing Inganock and Gahkthun first since those are easier.

So

So it's you I'm looking at

I suppose I should try to make 〈contact〉 with him
It doesn't look as though they plan on hiding

I'll slip in a〈thread or〈eye〉

Well, this is fine

It's not like this hasn't happened before in the past

I just won't be as active as Yog was in the past──

I'll just align with them until they break
Just as things were getting boring

~ ~ ~

Once

Once, before the fragile and ephemeral ones had the light of civilization in their hands

There was the Old Ones

Spirits, earth spirits, faieries, all those sorts of things

There were kings who were called gods, but they were too small to give their names to

All those who fancy themselves as being illusions
Those who have been dwarfed and disappeared like a shadow before the dawn of man

Still, they were closer to us than some of you

It was only a dream
If Heisenberg had existed in ancient times, there would have been a different way of being

It's no use nowadays

They have served one of my thousand manifestations well, but no one could reach me

I even opened up my dark nebula palace to them, but still

There wasn't even a single one

My Darkness, My Shadow, My Jet Black, nothing has ever spiraled upward to my being, one of the〈elements〉that make up the Dark Universe, and no one has ever risen in rank

Far from its chaos

By that point──

Did Kadath respond to any one of them?
Even with the steel body of civilization, there were some who struggled to become material

And that's just for the blink of an eye

The people of Kadath were illusory, but they also had some material connections
The dragons who have embraced assimilation with nature are a good example

It's ironic that the so-called gods disappeared before the dragons did

Therefore, even now, you still have the blue sky left

~ ~ ~

Hmm──

Let's see

I wonder if some of the concepts that are close to the elements in this one had some promise

The Salamander of Fire
The Black Dog of Wind
The Troll of Earth
The Kelpie of Water

Those who have tried to cross the gates of Tartarus and gain a connection with the elements

Just a few, blink-and-you'll-miss-it moments ago
But a little nostalgia is in order

...Ah

When has anyone seen fakes like these nowadays?

But it's fleeting, after all
There was nothing to get my Jet Black

I've seen a handful of them here and there, making use of their power
But now, they are all gone

Yes, I am aware of that

You

You know what I am talking?

────

──I see

It's good to know your name
I see. The letter "A"

I fly one of my consciousnesses far away to the traces of Betelgeuse and see who has used My Shadow, My Darkness, My Jet Black

A Critter
The results of using Cracking

Born into the〈World of the Moon King〉according to a Formula derived by a fleeting human being, accompanied by Gold, a〈writhing human〉armed with Shadows as his allies

Interesting

It's no wonder

Just a little
Yes, just a tentacle from out of the hundreds of millions

Yes, it's no wonder that you can manipulate my Jet Black

You

More
Show me more

────

──Haha

Yes, Howler in Darkness

Haha

Hahaha

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

...how amusing

Once

Once, will the one with Gold be able to mimic my Jet Black, which once roared in the dark and lost its Gold

What irony

Yes, just like the《Great Engine Clock》set by the Moon King from another sky

A, was it?
The Old Ones may have vanished〈now〉, but you have touched my Jet Black

I'll remember your name
 
@RM97 Engine Dictionary. Actually one of the chapters of the books main story.

The story mostly have chapters from Lily and A’s perspective but it has some chapters that change up to something else. Sleep of the Black King/Nyarlathotep is just one of those few that’s from a different perspective but they’re all stories that take place after Sona Nyl’s main VN story.
 
Part of the reason I posted this is to explain a few of the stuff I’ll add for M like cosmic awareness addition and another addition of his power bestowel.

The chapter also gives a bit of lore or so with the Black King himself explaining who the Old Ones are and the illusions that were part of both Earth and Kadath. And if you guys ever read the full passage, you’ll notice that M mentions about the “gods” being in man made machines.

This one I believe is where “Shintai” come in. Shintai is a term that means any object of worship, relating to a god or kami that happens to take habitat in the object in question? In WAB, a Shintai is a fading god/illusion put inside a machine body made of steel and engines for them to not fade out of existence. Cthulhu as he appeared in Shining Night is one example from what I looked around, and there’s another one in the setting of Ulthar that Lily in one of her dream walk journeys previously saw and witnessed.
 
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