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I mean, if there isn't anything contrdicting this feat, i don't see why it can't be appiled.....
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Sonic upgrades
- Thread starter The_Everlasting
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Super Sonic has two-three feats of beating universal+ characters and they're diregarded as outliers for being inconsistent with his other showings. MSS seems a bit outlierish with everyone he's exerted himself against, and large star is at least somewhat supported by Dark Gaia.
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Wait what was wrong with the old calc? Because if there's anything wrong with it, then it houldn't be used at all....
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^ This.Cropfist said:
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Yes.
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nobody answered my question......
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I think we desperatedly need to find more feats for Sonic. I'm fine with 5-A Super Sonic, but his base needs work, not mentioning that he clearly became stronger from Classic to Current.
I also found a third Tier 2 outlier for him.
I also found a third Tier 2 outlier for him.
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@Peter: The original calc only calculates the energy to destroy only the individual stars in that star cluster. It does not account for the distance/spacing between the stars in that cluster.
Anyways, to destroy the entirety of the Hyades star cluster, you need to at least make an explosion big enough in size to cover the entirety of the star cluster. This is discounting the fact that there may be a star at the very end border of said Hyades star cluster, which brings this value even higher (I calculated this value btw).
I see why Vivi multiplied the GBE of the star by 200 in the original calc due to this quote here.
Except that the original source of this information does not state that there are 200 stars in that cluster.
Basically, the original calc is wrong due to:
Anyways, to destroy the entirety of the Hyades star cluster, you need to at least make an explosion big enough in size to cover the entirety of the star cluster. This is discounting the fact that there may be a star at the very end border of said Hyades star cluster, which brings this value even higher (I calculated this value btw).
I see why Vivi multiplied the GBE of the star by 200 in the original calc due to this quote here.
| For example, Perryman and colleagues list about 200 high-probability Hyades members. | ||
~ Perryma |
Basically, the original calc is wrong due to:
- The original calc not accounting for the distance of the stars that the explosion needs to cover
- The fact that the original article that it was sourced from does not have the said info about the 200 stars thing.
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Not gonna lie, I see it more likely that the 5-A is a low end than this being a high end. Especially considering Sonic's REALLY high ends.
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You mean like defeating a being powered by the energy that allows the existence of parallel universes?The real cal howard said:
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Yeah. Things like that. While undoubtedly outliers, like major outliers, there should be consideration of high(er) feats being legit because these exist.
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TBF the Sonic Rush feat could scale to Hyper Sonic since Master / Super Emeralds are the most powerful thing in the Verse.
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@Matt: I was wondering, do you think you can compile all the notable feats that Super Sonic did, and post them on a list for other people here to look at if possible? I just think it would be easier to sort out where exactly Super Sonic stands in the current tiering system based on his accolades.
Or, it could be that Super Sonic's tiering actually varies in each game, which may mean that there isn't exactly one solid tier that we can place him in.
Or, it could be that Super Sonic's tiering actually varies in each game, which may mean that there isn't exactly one solid tier that we can place him in.
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I think we shoud handle Dark Gaia like we handle Queen Sectonia and just scale it to MSS Super Sonic despite thier best feats being around planetary.
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Basically what I was implying by saying the Chaos Emeralds are the series' main plot device. It doesn't matter what the threat is or how strong it is. Once he shows up, Super Sonic (albeit occasionally with assistance) will put it down.Lina Shields said:
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I guess I understand what you mean there. It is probably why Super Sonic's feats fluctuate so wildly in almost all of the sonic games.
Thus, my suggestion is that we leave Super Sonic's tiering as it is, according to your suggestions, and set the rest of the higher feats that Super Sonic as outliers?
Or just set Super Sonic's tiering as Unknow.
Edit: I wonder if there are any other feats that Super Sonic did that could give him a solid Large Planet level tiering? Just one or two more would suffice.
Thus, my suggestion is that we leave Super Sonic's tiering as it is, according to your suggestions, and set the rest of the higher feats that Super Sonic as outliers?
Or just set Super Sonic's tiering as Unknow.
Edit: I wonder if there are any other feats that Super Sonic did that could give him a solid Large Planet level tiering? Just one or two more would suffice.
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My original suggestion was to place the results of this calc as a possible high-end for Super Sonic rather than discard it entirely, actually.
I'd really rather not put his tier as Unknown, though.
I'd really rather not put his tier as Unknown, though.
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Seeing that the Death Egg Blaster yielded Multi-Solar System level values in terms of AP, how about this?
"At least Large Planet level, possibly Multi-Solar System level"
"At least Large Planet level, possibly Multi-Solar System level"
- Large Planet level due to Dark Gaia feat
- Multi-Solar System level for the Death Egg Blaster
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I suppose that's fine. What would the note look like?
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And about Hyper Sonic?
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@Matt: I was wondering, do you think you can compile all the notable feats that Super Sonic did, and post them on a list for other people here to look at if possible? I just think it would be easier to sort out where exactly Super Sonic stands in the current tiering system based on his accolades.
I'd like a Sonic Respect Thread where people could help.
I'd like a Sonic Respect Thread where people could help.
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that seems fine Lina and Mat did you just @at yourself??
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Possibly. Not likely.
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why not? It makes more sense for the emeralds to be stronger than the blaster and the only thing truly contradicting the notion is Super Sonic being hurt by a character who's best feat is large planet, despite said feat being performed very casually and while Gaia was heavily weakened. AP =/= AoE anyways.
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Because the difference is abyssal and probably an outlier
IMO, Possibly or nothing.
IMO, Possibly or nothing.
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Kind of.
Large Planet and Large Star is a HUGE difference. But between 5-A and 4-A, there is a 4-B tier, which literally said that it needs to be trillion of time stronger to reach it high end
Large Planet and Large Star is a HUGE difference. But between 5-A and 4-A, there is a 4-B tier, which literally said that it needs to be trillion of time stronger to reach it high end
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For one, there's nothing suggesting the feat was performed casually, and Dark Gaia was forced to disperse itself afterwards as it was so weak it couldn't maintain it's form. For two, regaining your full power after you were weakened rarely justifies a jump in tiers unless you perform something afterwards that justifies it. Even if Dark Gaia was at 0.00001% of it's full power (note that fiction rarely uses numbers like this for these things; it's usually numbers like 1% or 10%), I doubt regaining 100% would even get it to Star level.Cropfist said:
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The reason the Dragon Ball power levels aren't considered straightforward is because the characters performed feats that put them at a higher tier than what the numbers would suggest. For example, (Saiyan Saga) Vegeta is considered Planet level and has a power level of 18000. Frieza (first form) has a power level of 530000. By these numbers, Frieza should be roughly 29.5 times stronger than Vegeta, which I don't think would even put him at Planet+. Yet he performs a feat which is Large Planet level at bare minimum, and was calced at Small Star.
Dark Gaia hasn't done anything like this.
Dark Gaia hasn't done anything like this.
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I can agree to possibly.
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What I'm saying is you need more justification for suddenly jumping from Large Planet to Large Star than "it wasn't at full power".
No matter how you try to look at it, Dark Gaia being Large Star or especially Multi-Solar System level doesn't make much sense.
No matter how you try to look at it, Dark Gaia being Large Star or especially Multi-Solar System level doesn't make much sense.
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for Super sonic could it be At least 5-A to High 4-C possibly 4-A?
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Why doesn't it make sense? I would like to point out that Knuckles' actual tangible independent of powerscaling feats are roughly building level, but he's still scaled to city level things anyways.
Why can't we do something similar with DG, especially when its feat is certainly not its maximum as even noted in the OP?
Why can't we do something similar with DG, especially when its feat is certainly not its maximum as even noted in the OP?
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The sole City level feat in the entire series for the base forms is Sonic vs Perfect Chaos in Generations, and it created a massive issue with the scaling between the base and Super forms that so far is resolved by keeping Perfect Chaos at City level (i.e., not scaling to the other Super forms).
Let's get this straight. We're arguing for MSS Super forms based on this, someone said it was an outlier, you're trying to say it's not because Dark Gaia, the being whom the Super forms are scaled to, was not at full power when it performed the feat in question. I'm saying no matter how you try to gauge the numbers, Dark Gaia going from Large Planet to MSS does not sound remotely feasible.
If this gets accepted, then everything that was prior scaled to Dark Gaia will be scaled to the FEB instead. Dark Gaia too will go from Large Planet to Multi-Solar System level.
The evidence for this scaling to the Super forms is not concrete, and on top of this, Dark Gaia visibly pushed Super Sonic to the limit with it's demonstrated Large Planet level to Dwarf/Small Star level power.
I'm afraid if this goes through, the scaling for the Sonic series will become as ridiculous as the Kirby series. What is there to prove all these final bosses are at the same level of power other than that they fought Super Sonic, who runs on plot devices?
Let's get this straight. We're arguing for MSS Super forms based on this, someone said it was an outlier, you're trying to say it's not because Dark Gaia, the being whom the Super forms are scaled to, was not at full power when it performed the feat in question. I'm saying no matter how you try to gauge the numbers, Dark Gaia going from Large Planet to MSS does not sound remotely feasible.
If this gets accepted, then everything that was prior scaled to Dark Gaia will be scaled to the FEB instead. Dark Gaia too will go from Large Planet to Multi-Solar System level.
The evidence for this scaling to the Super forms is not concrete, and on top of this, Dark Gaia visibly pushed Super Sonic to the limit with it's demonstrated Large Planet level to Dwarf/Small Star level power.
I'm afraid if this goes through, the scaling for the Sonic series will become as ridiculous as the Kirby series. What is there to prove all these final bosses are at the same level of power other than that they fought Super Sonic, who runs on plot devices?
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