Simon revisions (And I guess we also bring up High 1-C. Twice.)

[DMUA]

Having 10-11d isn't the thing that makes dimensional tiering work, and if it was, 1-B wouldn't exist. Which would mess up a lot of comic book cosmology but that's besides the point.

Gurren Lagann does indeed have 10-11 Dimensionality, but, that still doesn't address the contradictions to the other side of it being that a higher dimension has infinitely more mass then a lower dimension.

 

[Elizhaa]

It is based the dimension statements which this wiki goes by and it just happens to agree with M-theory dimensional number, that is about it, @Ricsi-viragosi.

 

[DMUA]

You can't just go "oh they have a specific number dimensions lol" and throw on something based on just that

Address the contradictions. And if you can't, then, tough luck.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No.

The tier given is because a dimension is more than infinitly stronger than a lower one.

What your saying is to rate them at the same tier as beings who are several infinities stronger because the dimension they are from is numbered the same way, ignoring the fact that one is not even an ant to the other.

 

[Crzer07]

I thought we've already been over this in some past thread, by aeyu and azathoth even accepted it

 

[DMUA]

Did they bring my points up?

If they did enlighten me

If they didn't, then, it hardly matters.

Especially considering an appeal to authority halfway doesn't work

Then again I probably shouldn't be labeling you with fallacies, so, I'll ignore it in favor of asking you to just argue like a normal person

 

[Andytrenom]

Just to clarify, I don't have any real issues with the high 1-C rating atm.

I don't think they contradict having higher D power any worse than multiple low 2-C verses.

 

[DMUA]

And I'm in the school of thought that said Low 2-C verses shouldn't be Low 2-C if there's blaitent contradictions but that is a digression

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Azathoth accepted our old DT revisions that made Gan and the Crimson King High 1-B, and now look where we're at with that.

No, I'm not knocking the guy. He's probably the person I respect above every other regular I've consistently talked to on here. But his opinions aren't infallible, and "Azzy agreed with this way back when" isn't a good argument on its own, especially when he has admitted to being wrong about things and/or reviewing them too hastily in the past.

 

[Elizhaa]

Thread where High 1-C was accepted by multiple staffs

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1063980

 

[DMUA]

Stop appealing to authority

If my arguments are addressed on that thread, then, alright

If they aren't, address them

If you can't, we shouldn't have High 1-C.

 

[Lancer45Man]

I'm actually in support of both DMUA and Ricsi here.

Afaik The High 1-C tier happened in the first place due to:-

• Lord Genome Stating that the AS Uni resides between 10 and 11 Dimension

• Lord Genome Stating that the AS Uni has different Axis

However, the show doesn't describe them as anything a 11D realm would be like. Regular humans could go and exist in the AS Uni and even in the past Spiral Warriors like Lord Genome went and fought in the AS Uni. The realm was still described as a Universe for the AS. AS's multidimensional labyrinth was a mindhax that trapped the consciousness of the Dai Gurren team in Illusion where their perception would change the reality they seem to be in and only works on Sentient beings. Even the biggest threat to everyone in the series was Entropy/Spiral Nemesis/Heat Death of the Universe.

There seems to be many Contradictions to them being High 1-C imo

 

[Elizhaa]

Contradictions are dealt with the Possibly rating

Possibly
Should be used to list a hypothetical statistic for a character, but inconclusive due to lack of feats or viable power-scaling. Probability of said hypothetical statistic should also be indeterminate.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Contradictions are dealt with the Possibly rating

...

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Thread where High 1-C was accepted by multiple staffs
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1063980

Multiple staff members also accepted my revisions from last year that made the Doom Slayer Sub-Relativistic.

Since then, they were debunked, and Doom Slayer is now nowhere near that speed, far and away in spite of how many staff members were in favor of that rating the first time around.

Do you see my point? Unless the new arguments are addressed and disproven, this is a similar case of the original majority rule meaning little.

 

[DMUA]

Not if there are so many the validity is too low to consider anything but wank

After all, we don't have Possibly High 2-A Jiren for transcending time

We don't have Possibly 1-A Superman because he put a hole in Soulfire darksied or whatever he was called

We don't have Possibly High 6-C inFAMOUS second son because there may be a conduit as strong as the New Mirais gang that the scientist who stated that Augustine was the most powerful conduit he's ever seen might have also seen

There's a line between "could be" and "very unlikely"

 

[Elizhaa]

I guess it is just for evidence then

 

[Jinsye]

Darkseid is 1-A?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What even is the argument against this? We don't use M-Theory for Tier 1, who gave you that idea?

 

[DMUA]

Soul Fire darkesied, IE, omegaamped boi, is 1-A

 

[Kaltias]

@Ed

Soulfire Darkseid fought the Source.

It isn't his normal level at all though

 

[DMUA]

What even is the argument against this? We don't use M-Theory for Tier 1, who gave you that idea?

Pretty sure that's where the idea of a Dimension having infinitely more mass then a lower one comes from

Not that it matters if that idea is M Theory or not, the main point is, that idea in particular is heavily contradicted.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No it's not from M-Theory.

And it's contradicted how? The Multiversal Labyrinth is either 10D or 11D. Destroying or creation it is a High 1-C feat.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Looking at the point all I see is "Simon is physically 3D".

So. What? Spiral Power still allows him to defeat a 10th or 11th Dimensional being in the Anti-Spiral. That's not an argument for it not being High 1-C.

And neither is the seeming ease with each he goes up to that level.

 

[DMUA]

Fun things like

 

[Jinsye]

I think the OP was arguing to remove Simon's higher-dimensional existence.

EDIT: Well I haven't been paying attention

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I'm actually in support of both DMUA and Ricsi here.
Afaik The High 1-C tier happened in the first place due to:-

• Lord Genome Stating that the AS Uni resides between 10 and 11 Dimension

• Lord Genome Stating that the AS Uni has different Axis

However, the show doesn't describe them as anything a 11D realm would be like. Regular humans could go and exist in the AS Uni and even in the past Spiral Warriors like Lord Genome went and fought in the AS Uni. The realm was still described as a Universe for the AS. AS's multidimensional labyrinth was a mindhax that trapped the consciousness of the Dai Gurren team in Illusion where their perception would change the reality they seem to be in and only works on Sentient beings. Even the biggest threat to everyone in the series was Entropy/Spiral Nemesis/Heat Death of the Universe.

There seems to be many Contradictions to them being High 1-C imo

 

[DMUA]

I think the OP was arguing to remove Simon's higher-dimensional existence.

We've long since derailed from the OP lol

But yeah that's one part

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The third literally happens with 1-As in multiple verses.

 

[DMUA]

Yes, that can be written off as PIS... If it was the only thing against it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also arguing about how the fight looked is a terrible argument. It's just fallacious and basing solely on visuals.

 

[DMUA]

If it was the only indication I'd agree with you. However, it's something that goes along with other things.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But your whole point is about looks and how easy it was for Simon to become High 1-C when the whole point of the series is serial escalation.

It's not a strong argument. You're arguing out of incredulity.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I'm actually in support of both DMUA and Ricsi here.
Afaik The High 1-C tier happened in the first place due to:-

• Lord Genome Stating that the AS Uni resides between 10 and 11 Dimension

• Lord Genome Stating that the AS Uni has different Axis

However, the show doesn't describe them as anything a 11D realm would be like. Regular humans could go and exist in the AS Uni and even in the past Spiral Warriors like Lord Genome went and fought in the AS Uni. The realm was still described as a Universe for the AS. AS's multidimensional labyrinth was a mindhax that trapped the consciousness of the Dai Gurren team in Illusion where their perception would change the reality they seem to be in and only works on Sentient beings. Even the biggest threat to everyone in the series was Entropy/Spiral Nemesis/Heat Death of the Universe.

There seems to be many Contradictions to them being High 1-C imo

 

[Elizhaa]

Spiral Nemesis involve all universes not just one universe

 

[DMUA]

Yes, escalation is the main idea, but, it spontaneously spiking in escalation on a literally infinite scale and then going at it's regular pace of progressively larger mechs still bound by the third dimension doesn't make any sense.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And it doesn't have to make sense based on our science or logic. Gurren Lagann is about kicking reason to the curb and doing the impossible because who the hell do you think we are?

Analyzing it via what's possible or impossible is missing the point by a gigalightyear.

Also if your problem is the sudden infinite spike in power, try going from 3D to 1-A via a philosophical revelation about the nature of existence, which happens in some verses.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also Ricsi, the Multiversal Labyrinth is a real place created by the Anti-Spiral, supplementary material clarifies that. It's not an illusion, that was long debunked.

 

[DMUA]

Then why are we applying the possible to the impossible?

If it doesn't obey science, we shouldn't apply science.

Measure what is measureable and make what is not measureable measureable. If you can't, don't measure it.

 

[Elizhaa]

Yes, escalation is the main idea, but, it spontaneously spiking in escalation on a literally infinite scale and then going at it's regular pace of progressively larger mechs still bound by the third dimension doesn't make any sense.

I agree with Matt, your argument is a not strong argument looks to be based incredulity here.