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(Gurren Lagann 1-A/ H1-A+ upgrade) Don’t believe in yourself. Believe in the upgrade that believes in you!

I don’t think you understand what the blog is saying.
If a higher plane operates on a completely different set of dimensions than the lower, that in of itself is a 1-A feat. no extra justification is needed.
 
No it doesn’t. You are ignoring the fact that brane cosmology literally can’t be Low Outerversal-Outerversal. At best it Goes to High 1-B which isn’t the case for gurren lagann either, since the highest we’ve actually seen it go is 11-D and MAYBE 20-D if you think the statement brought up by Batman is valid (Which I’m not sure if it is, even for WoG bringing up things like out of the blue seems a bit iffy, especially when a strict cosmology was already established previously)
Why are we saying a “strict” cosmology was established. In the main anime series the villain hid his realm between the 10th and 11th dimension and thus they go there do do their thing. At no point does anyone ever say “there are only 11 dimensions” and in external side media there’s deliberate mention of 20 dimensions. TTGL is not hard capped at only having 11 dimensions in its whole cosmology. Where is anybody getting this from.
 
Why are we saying a “strict” cosmology was established. In the main anime series the villain hid his realm between the 10th and 11th dimension and thus they go there do do their thing. At no point does anyone ever say “there are only 11 dimensions” and in external side media there’s deliberate mention of 20 dimensions. TTGL is not hard capped at only having 11 dimensions in its whole cosmology. Where is anybody getting this from.
I meant as in there’s at max 11 dimensions that we know of, in the anime at least.
 
ok well basically how i view it is:
dai gurren team and anti spiral stay at High 1-C
spiral nemesis can be 1-B imo
simon post apotheosis could potentially get 1-B as well

avant simon gets to 1-B, but also gets a 1-A key
otoko simon gets to 1-A
 
ok well basically how i view it is:
dai gurren team and anti spiral stay at High 1-C
spiral nemesis can be 1-B imo
simon post apotheosis could potentially get 1-B as well

avant simon gets to 1-B, but also gets a 1-A key
otoko simon gets to 1-A
team dai-Gurren and anti spiral were occupying an area with a completely different set of dimensions,which is 1-A via the r>f blog.
 
My man, Are you gonna add Glassman to the vote tally? Since it seems like you are only adding staff that agrees with you? That is clearly vote manipulation...
 
My man, Are you gonna add Glassman to the vote tally? Since it seems like you are only adding staff that agrees with you? That is clearly vote manipulation...
I just forgot to update the op,but anyone can check the thread and see who said what, it would be hard to manipulate that unless you straight up can’t read
 
I have read through Kirbonic Pikmin's entire blog.

I can see where the arguments for 1-A come from, personally, but it's uncertain whether or not they would qualify.

The biggest issue, which Pikmin hasn't addressed, is the "2D" terminology used to refer to the fictional world.

The problem is that every time dimensionality is brought up, it is used in a literal sense. It even references string/brane cosmology and mathematical axes. Your very own blog brings this up.

This is a massive thorn in the side of the 1-A argument, because now you have to prove that they aren't just using the "fiction" aspect of this 2D world the wrong way.

You practically have to disregard the mathematical-ness of the dimensional statements, which are far more supported, in favor of the far less supported viewpoint required to make each dimension a R>F gap.

If you can address is somehow, I would be in favor of a possibly rating.

If not, then I must disagree.
Reposting because it's very relevant.
 
I just forgot to update the op,but anyone can check the thread and see who said what, it would be hard to manipulate that unless you straight up can’t read
That is not how it works my guy...

Vote manipulation is when you only count certain votes to get a preferred result. That means the moment you only put down "agreeing" staff in the vote while ignoring neutral/disagreeing staff, it is vote manipulation. using "It isn't vote manipulation due to them being able to read" is not a valid argument against it.

To simplify it for you, for it to not count as "vote manipulation" you need to either, count all staff votes in the tally, or not count anyone on the tally.

"
 
That is not how it works my guy...

Vote manipulation is when you only count certain votes to get a preferred result. That means the moment you only put down "agreeing" staff in the vote while ignoring neutral/disagreeing staff, it is vote manipulation. using "It isn't vote manipulation due to them being able to read" is not a valid argument against it.

To simplify it for you, for it to not count as "vote manipulation" you need to either, count all staff votes in the tally, or not count anyone on the tally.

"
Vote manipulation is the most powerful hax in the arsenal of a vs debater..............
 
Reposting because it's very relevant.
This was already indirectly addressed, the higher “dimension” or whatever the anti spiral and dai-gurren went to was confirmed to have a completely different set of dimensional axes. This is stated to be a 1-A thing in the FAQ, as it confirms they are not bound by a dimensional hierarchy.
 
This was already indirectly addressed, the higher “dimension” or whatever the anti spiral and dai-gurren went to was confirmed to have a completely different set of dimensional axes. This is stated to be a 1-A thing in the FAQ, as it confirms they are not bound by a dimensional hierarchy.
"In order to qualify they must view the world as a some actual form of 'fiction', i.e. to them what happens in the fiction is not real and of no physical consequence to their being and also otherwise is of no greater consequence to their being than an actual fictional character could reasonably be to a real life human. However, the medium in which they view the world as fiction generally does not matter, as it being fiction is enough for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence to be considered."

"Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories), images (Paintings, comics, or movies), data (Simulations or video games), or mental constructs (thoughts or dreams). All of the above would be considered less 'real' than the person who views the cosmology as such, and can directly imply qualitative superiority. Note that the medium is usually a representation or container for the fiction on a higher plane and not necessarily the fiction in itself."

This isn't viewing them as fiction. Having a "Completely different set of dimensional axes" is just being higher into Tier 1. If it has a dimensional axes AT ALL It's nowhere close to even Low 1-A. You aren't unbound by a dimensional hierarchy if you still have dimensions 👀
 
"In order to qualify they must view the world as a some actual form of 'fiction', i.e. to them what happens in the fiction is not real and of no physical consequence to their being and also otherwise is of no greater consequence to their being than an actual fictional character could reasonably be to a real life human. However, the medium in which they view the world as fiction generally does not matter, as it being fiction is enough for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence to be considered."

"Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories), images (Paintings, comics, or movies), data (Simulations or video games), or mental constructs (thoughts or dreams). All of the above would be considered less 'real' than the person who views the cosmology as such, and can directly imply qualitative superiority. Note that the medium is usually a representation or container for the fiction on a higher plane and not necessarily the fiction in itself."

This isn't viewing them as fiction. Having a "Completely different set of dimensional axes" is just being higher into Tier 1. If it has a dimensional axes AT ALL It's nowhere close to even Low 1-A. You aren't unbound by a dimensional hierarchy if you still have dimensions 👀
Did you just not read the R>F faq?

(Take this article's image as reference),[note 2] then that is substantial evidence for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence, in particular if the higher plane demonstrably has its own set of dimensions, so that it is impossible for it and the lower world to be related to each other by dimensional differences.
 
This was already indirectly addressed, the higher “dimension” or whatever the anti spiral and dai-gurren went to was confirmed to have a completely different set of dimensional axes. This is stated to be a 1-A thing in the FAQ, as it confirms they are not bound by a dimensional hierarchy.
Could you elaborate, preferably with scans? I'm uncertain what this really means by itself.
 
Did you just not read the R>F faq?

(Take this article's image as reference),[note 2] then that is substantial evidence for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence, in particular if the higher plane demonstrably has its own set of dimensions, so that it is impossible for it and the lower world to be related to each other by dimensional differences.
They are connected. That's how brane cosmology works. Lower dimensions are a base for higher ones. This is why people are telling you about the current 11-D scaling being an Anti-Feat 💀
 
They are connected. That's how brane cosmology works. Lower dimensions are a base for higher ones. This is why people are telling you about the current 11-D scaling being an Anti-Feat 💀
The fact that they have a different set of dimensional axes to begin with means they aren’t connected by dimensions. Brane cosmology doesn’t work like that.
 
Could you elaborate, preferably with scans? I'm uncertain what this really means by itself.

Here’s the section from the faq
(Take this article's image as reference),[note 2] then that is substantial evidence for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence, in particular if the higher plane demonstrably has its own set of dimensions, so that it is impossible for it and the lower world to be related to each other by dimensional differences.

And here is it being explicitly stated.

1000
 
The fact that they have a different set of dimensional axes to begin with means they aren’t connected by dimensions. Brane cosmology doesn’t work like that.
They are still related like the r>f blog specifies. Without the lower/higher dimensions the rest of the cosmology breaks. That's also why the spiral nemesis is a thing 👀
 
They are still related like the r>f blog specifies. Without the lower/higher dimensions the rest of the cosmology breaks. That's also why the spiral nemesis is a thing 👀
If you check the OP and the blog, this is explained by spiral power being the thing that links the cosmology, which is allowed.
 
just forgot to update the op,but anyone can check the thread and see who said what, it would be hard to manipulate that unless you straight up can’t read
You're supposed to add them. But if you need names then CloverDragon, Glassman and myself have disagreed with the proposal. With Phoenks expressing disapproval without further clarification on some points.
 
If you check the OP and the blog, this is explained by spiral power being the thing that links the cosmology, which is allowed.
Uh, no.

If the TTGL is only 11-D, then the force that holds it together would be 11-D as well. If a cosmology is 2-A, then its source would be "2-A." Not really understand this jump you're making.

You need to first prove that holding the "universe" and "life forms" together necessitates a 1-A energy source. To do that you'd need to prove the universe/life-forms are 1-A, or at least something like Low 1-A, to where you can argue that the source is qualitatively beyond its resultants.
^^^^^^
 
You're supposed to add them. But if you need names then CloverDragon, Glassman and myself have disagreed with the proposal. With Phoenks expressing disapproval without further clarification on some points.
Alright, will update the OP.

Any thought about the new points brought up?
 
This is referring to something completely different from what I am referring to, though. This is irrelevant to the scene with the proposed reality-fiction gap.
what exactly are you asking for on that front?
 
I already proved an acceptable justification for a qualitative jump.

I’m just justifying it further by saying they aren’t bound physically,but metaphysically via spiral power.
That still doesn't mean spiral power is 1-A. Metaphysial is just transcending something or being beyond the physical world. That's not r>f at all where you need to basically be an author. You still need to prove that they actually need a 1-A energy source for High 1-C feats.
 
what exactly are you asking for on that front?
I am asking you to explain why "dimension" as a term should mean something completely different (R>F gap) than what it is usually treated as (literal mathematical axis).

You can't have both of these interpretations at the same time for your own convenience in scaling the verse. They're inherently contradictory.

At the moment, their mathematical definition is what is most supported. Gurren Laggan is more direct about how it treats dimensions than most other verses.

For R>F to be accepted, ya gotta explain why "2D" doesn't actually mean 2D in a literal sense in that piece of the verse.

If you can't give a solid enough reasoning, this CRT fails.
 
The Otoko universe and the main universe have different laws of physics.

The main universe is perception based while the Otoko universe is sonic based due to its status as a drama CD. It's not just a branching universe from the main universe...that or it branched out in the very first moments of the Big Bang when physics itself was still being determined.

Also, the "2D universe" may refer to Otoko Simon creating the manga that Avant Simon comes from (manga is a story told through pictures after all), and not just about it being 2D, 3D, 4D and so on.
 
"You are correct that having just dimensionality involved would not fit the r > f standards. However, that doesn't change the fact that Otoko Simon viewed the world Avant Simon came from as a lower place than his own. As mentioned from the wiki link you posted, "Broadly speaking, it ought to be reasonably clear that the higher world views the lower one as something insubstantial relative to itself, or in other words, that the Reality/Fiction relationship be meant as relatively literal" which satisfies the r > f standards. In addition, the only reason Avant Simon was able to reach to Otoko Simon's world is because Otoko Simon opened a gateway to Avant Simon's dimension. While Avant Simon tried to open the gateway, Otoko Simon is the one who provided most of the power to do so as stated by Avant Simon "No, it's just as you said above. Your voice gave me power. It made spatial teleportation possible."

https://www.fanverse.org/threads/tr...power. It made spatial teleportation possible.

You can say that because dimensionality is again referred to in this scenario that r>f does not apply, but that does not change that Otoko Simon is the one that made the gateway through his world superiority and viewing Avant Simon's world as a lower one. Just because dimensionality is involved does not mean that r > f does not suffice at all. It just means that it does not suffice enough. Furthermore, if that does not satisfy the outerversal arguments, spiral power is the "A power greater than the stars, greater than the galaxies. A power greater than dimension and time"

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gurren_Lagann_Cosmology

This makes Simon at least baseline outerversal as baseline outerversal "Characters who are simply beyond the concept of Space and Time along with Dimensions. These characters do meet the requirements of Outerversal Status, however within their own tier, they are considered "weaker" due to having simplistic superiority to Dimensions." In relation to the first point regarding Otoko Simon, Simon can be scaled higher from Baseline Outer to High Outer
."

Someone mentioned this to me out of site, I'm just posting this rebuttle to see if there are any counter args to this, I'll delete the comment if this breaks the rules tho
 
Furthermore, if that does not satisfy the outerversal arguments, spiral power is the "A power greater than the stars, greater than the galaxies. A power greater than dimension and time"
If spiral power isn't outerversal, which it doesn't seem to be at the moment, then simon isn't outerversal either, and it'd be an outlier. That's what im debating rn
 
Alright, I think it's time to bump this thread.

そう だ、 人間 が 滅多 な こと で は 出せ ん 力。 時に 火事場 の 馬鹿力 と も 言わ れる 限界 を 突破 し た 時 で は ない と。 出せ マックス パワー だ。 噂 に は 聞い て い た が、 実在 し た と は だ。 戦力 なんて 間抜け な 響き だ。 だ が 老 ジェノム 様 の いい 声 で 聞く と なんとなく 納得 し て しまう。 なるほど、 この 世界 で は そんな 名前 で 呼ば れ て いる の か だ。 戦力 で も 達成 力 で も なん でも いい。 この 力 が ある 限り 俺 に は かない こ ない ん だ よ。 貴様、 その 力 を 使っ て 何 を する? 決まっ てる。 点 も 次元 を 突破 する ん だ。 俺 の 2次元 宇宙 も、 貴様 等 の 音 次元 宇宙 も 超え て 神 の 肉体 を 持つ 音 次元 だ ぞ。 何 それ な ん だ! 貴様 ら 気づい て ない の か? ここ は 音 で 整理 する 次元 だ。 音 による 認識 が 世界 を 構成 し て いる ん だ。 あいつ は 何 を 言っ て ん だ? あんな 難しい こと を 言っ た の は 確か に 俺 たち が し たら 指紋 じゃ ない ぜ。 ああ、 そう か。 私 たち は ここ に 存在 し て いる。 でも それ は 音 だけ な の ね。 理論 じゃ 理解 し て いる の です か? なんとなく ね。 私 たち は 言葉 を 発する こと で イメージ する 言葉 と 実態 が イコール な 世界。 それ が 音 次元。 宇宙 を 口 に し た こと は 実在 する。 そう 思っ て おけ ば いい わ。 それで 俺 たち は こんなに よく しゃべる の か。 そういう こと ね。 そう だ、 この 音 次元 宇宙 は 平たい 銀盤 が ぐるぐる 回っ てる よう な もん だ。 この 世界 を ぶち壊す ため に ローゼ の 躯 にゃ お前 たち の 力 も いただく ぜ。 コア ドリル が 光っ てる の か。 この 世界 の シモン の 力 も 俺 の ため に 使わ れ て。 えっ と さ みっ て。

Rough translation
Yes, a power that man can only rarely exert. It is only when you push the limits of what is sometimes called "fire power" that you will find the power to do it. It's a power that can't be unleashed. I'd heard rumours about it, but I didn't know it was real. Power sounds stupid. But when I hear it in the good voice of old Genom-sama, I understand it somehow. I see, so that's what they call it in this world. It doesn't matter what it is, whether it's war power or attainment power. As long as you have this power, you will never be able to defeat me. What are you going to do with this power? It's obvious. I'm going to break through points and dimensions. It's a sound dimension in the flesh of a god, beyond my two-dimensional universe and your sound-dimensional universe. What is that? Have you not noticed? This is the dimension of organising by sound. This is the dimension of organising by sound, where perceptions by sound make up the world. What is he talking about? What is he talking about? I'm sure it wasn't our fingerprints that said that difficult thing. Oh, right. We exist here. But it's only sound. Do you understand it by theory? Somewhat. A world where the words we imagine by uttering words are equal to the reality. That is the sound dimension. What we say about the universe is real. That's what we should think. Is that why we talk so much? That's how it is, isn't it? Yes, this sonic universe is like a flat silver disc going round and round. To destroy this world, Rose's body will need your power too. Is that a core drill shining? Simon's power in this world is also being used for me. Oh, it's so sad.

The conversations from Avant Simon and the others confirms that the 2D world he comes from is a 2D world due to being a manga (AKA it's 2D in the sense that it's a drawing); it's not just talking about dimensions like 2D, 3D, 4D, etc. Avant Simon manages to break through to Otoko Simon's world only via the latter's power.

The highlighted part shows why it's literal: Avant Simon was making a comparison between the world he came from (a manga that Otoko Simon made) and the world he's now in (a flat disc spinning round and round, due to being a Drama CD).
 
At minimum, Simon should be upgraded to 1-B due to Avant Simon's 20D feat from the Drama CD. This part should honestly be a no-brainer at this point.

At maximum, 1-A due to the R>F transcendence that has been discussed by the blog. I honestly don't know how High 1-A+ works so I have no opinion there.
 
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