Simon revisions (And I guess we also bring up High 1-C. Twice.)

[Wokistan]

I dunno it'd be pretty helpful to just step away on a direction inaccessible to Simon when you're being beat to death by him if that's a thing you're able to do

 

[DMUA]

Remember when I said Gurren Lagann likes to Flip off M Theory

Yeah that

He never shows the ability to just lol nope attacks due to being 11D because it's not in his powerset

... Generally Gurren Lagann is a cosmological headache and taking it this in depth just confuses me

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I dunno it'd be pretty helpful to just step away on a direction inaccessible to Simon when you're being beat to death by him if that's a thing you're able to do

To be fair you can be a 3-D being who can not only user higher d power but effect a whole realm of that sort as well

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

That being said physically hurting a high 1-C...

 

[DMUA]

Is a High 1-C feat and not proof that you spontaneously stopped being 3D in physical nature at any point

... Honestly if I didn't get as much backlash I'd off the High 1-C ratings, and while I'm at it probably nope out DB's Dimensional tiering

But that's a can of worms that is not something I should open without a ton of backing to my case

 

[Wokistan]

If he can't do that, it's either an indication of him not being physically 11D, an idiot, or the opponent being on a comparable level. Higher dimensional beings are often represented ficionally as 3D because we as humans are 3D, what is important is their potition compared to one another.

A 3D being with 11D power still wouldn't be able to move along the axis of spatial dimension number 5 by default though Zach.

 

[DMUA]

I think the former of those 3 is the case honestly

And just generally not being High 1-C due to a variety of contradictions

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

What? Why would we lose high 1-C?

 

[Wokistan]

You may want to add High 1-C in general to something you question then, and maybe ask some of the people who got it accepted originally.

 

[DMUA]

What? Why would we lose high 1-C?

Fun things like

• How 11D space is something they can get into with literally just a forking wedding ring, something that's a bit too low effort for literally going up by 8 entire infinites
• Anti Spiral doesn't move into another dimension to not die meanwhile his opponent by all indications is physically 3D
• .... That's it but it's still 2 massive things that give Dimensional tiering the finger

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

The second one is the only thing that goes against 11-D and can be summed up as rule of cool

 

[DMUA]

Rule of Cool isn't an excuse to accept blaitent contradictions

 

[Elizhaa]

What? Why would we lose high 1-C?

Fun things like

• How 11D space is something they can get into with literally just a forking wedding ring, something that's a bit too low effort for literally going up by 8 entire infinites
• Anti Spiral doesn't move into another dimension to not die meanwhile his opponent by all indications is physically 3D
• .... That's it but it's still 2 massive things that give Dimensional tiering the finger

Simon the Digger can break through space. Being physically 3-D, does not prevent a character from having higher D powers

 

[Elizhaa]

What? Why would we lose high 1-C?

Fun things like

• How 11D space is something they can get into with literally just a forking wedding ring, something that's a bit too low effort for literally going up by 8 entire infinites
• .... That's it but it's still 2 massive things that give Dimensional tiering the finger

Simon the Digger can break through space.

Spiral power's Reactive Evolution

 

[DMUA]

To immedately transcend 8 infinites and not even make a big deal out of it

... If anything that's a massive outlier how casual it is

Or just again

Gurren Lagann not opperating on M Theory and thereby being inapplicable for Dimensional Tiering

 

[DragonEmperor23]

What exactly is it being an outlier to if Spiral power is better the more you have of it and Simon has the most?

 

[Elizhaa]

TTGL has been stated by Gainax in interviews to possess an entire compressed Super Spiral space-time universe within it. A Super Spiral Universe is noted to contai 10 or 11 spatiotemporal dimensions

 

[DMUA]

What exactly is it being an outlier to if Spiral power is better the more you have of it and Simon has the most?

It's a completely unexplained Spike in escalation which then goes forth to only escalate at a trickle in comparison

WOG shouldn't matter if the source material is contradictory to it. Then again, nothing about that statement suggests the use of M Theory, so.

 

[Elizhaa]

To immedately transcend 8 infinites and not even make a big deal out of it
... If anything that's a massive outlier how casual it is

Or just again

Gurren Lagann not opperating on M Theory and thereby being inapplicable for Dimensional Tiering

Not much of outlier, Dimensional Tier jump do happen in fiction. Even at the lowest jump, Simon the Digger is still 3-D, with 4-D's power so the jump is a not outlier.

 

[DMUA]

Simon only went to 4D after literally absorbing a big bang, something that the series was building up to in his escalation

Here you're trying to tell me he spontaneously jumps 8 infinites and then the show goes on as normal trying to tell me how cool planet sized mechs are

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Saying it's a big jump doesn't make it an outlier, that's like saying something done while amped is an outlier. As the series progresses, Simon gained more spiral power and became stronger.

 

[DMUA]

Yes but it's at a steady pace that the show escalates, going from Moon sized mechs to mechs that make Planet sized mechs look tiny to Mechs that are the size of galaxies to Mechs that go beyond the size limitations of our universe

Having a result that's vastly higher and out of line with the natural flow of data is an outlier

 

[Elizhaa]

It is a possibly rating if the Anti-Spiral is 4-D then Simon the Digger have 4-D powers. If the Anti-Spiral is 10-11 D then Simon the Digger have 10-11-D powers. So my point still applies @DMUA.

 

[DMUA]

Okay nedge

With how much you're just linking the profiles and information from them as opposed to just actually citing what happens in the show

It just seems like you haven't actually seen the show

But either way that seems non sequitur to 11D making no sense in the first place

 

[Elizhaa]

Yes but it's at a steady pace that the show escalates, going from Moon sized mechs to mechs that make Planet sized mechs look tiny to Mechs that are the size of galaxies to Mechs that go beyond the size limitations of our universe
Having a result that's vastly higher and out of line with the natural flow of data is an outlier

From Spiral Nemesis, it is not an outlier. The verse describes anyone has any spiral powers could become powerful enough to destroy all existence.

https://gurrenlagann.fandom.com/wiki/Spiral_Nemesis

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I mean DBZ went from Multi Solar System to 3-A to Low 2-C, the fact that it's a big tier jump doesn't make it an outlier because an outlier is when characters do something way above what they normally can do, not them getting stronger faster than how much faster they did before.

 

[DMUA]

It's a spontaneous power increase with no sense behind it. It's not that the jump is too big to work, it's just the jump in it's presentation makes no sense with it's in story placement.

This isn't even treated as a power increase, it's just going to somewhere outside of their normal reach and isn't even a moment of "woah we did that" as they easily go to the 10.5D space without complication

There is absolutely no founding and a fair bit of contradiction to M Theory in the show

 

[Elizhaa]

It's a spontaneous power increase with no sense behind it. It's not that the jump is too big to work, it's just the jump in it's presentation makes no sense with it's in story placement.
This isn't even treated as a power increase, it's just going to somewhere outside of their normal reach and isn't even a moment of "woah we did that" as they easily go to the 10.5D space without complication

There is absolutely no founding and a fair bit of contradiction to M Theory in the show

Case by case basis, in the setting of the show, it is possible. The spiral power ascension that could lead Spiral Nemesis is the whole reason why Anti-Spiral's subjugated Spiral beings and initial setting of the shows.

 

[DMUA]

Possible... But very unreasonable to assume.

The show outright contradicts it and gives it no backing, there is no justification for it to be treated as is.

 

[Elizhaa]

Possible... But very unreasonable to assume.
The show outright contradicts it and gives it no backing, there is no justification for it to be treated as is.

It gives justification, via Spiral Nemesis. Again, the spiral power ascension that could lead Spiral Nemesis is the whole reason why Anti-Spiral's subjugated Spiral beings and initial setting of the shows.

 

[DMUA]

The Spiral Nemisis is just stated to swallow the entire universe, it's existence doesn't imply anything besides 3-A. Of course there are Higher, and valid, feats past 3-A, but not from the Nemisis.

How about instead of just dropping buzzwords and wiki links

You actually give evidence from the show

 

[Elizhaa]

it's existence doesn't imply anything besides 3-A. all of existence in the context of this shown is his infinite labyrinth is near infinite from Anti-Spiral. The Anti-Spiral's universe is described as 10-11 D

Also, all except the spiral nemisis wiki link are from the show

 

[DMUA]

That's an Ourboros

You're saying it's M Theory by bringing up 10.5 D which I've made my case for why it isn't M Theory due to how the show treats it

 

[Elizhaa]

I never said M-theory, Dimensional Theory alone is not the wiki standard for dimension tier. The wiki standards are concrete Dimensional Tiering statement or description, and this case it is concrete

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Being stated to be at a dimensionality but then never even showcasing anything like it is not accepted.

Not knowledgable on the verse to say if its the case here.

 

[Elizhaa]

Being stated to be at a dimensionality but then never even showcasing anything like it is not accepted.
Not knowledgable on the verse to say if its the case here.

It is a case by case basis, not a rule, Ricsi-viragosi.

 

[DMUA]

Our system goes on the basis of M Theory saying if you were to take a single bit of 3D matter and compare it to 2d matter, it would have infinitely more mass.

If a higher dimension doesn't have objects with infinitely more mass then lower ones, the system and ratings collapse in on themselves, as a 4D wouldn't punch with infinitely more force then a 3D.

If it contradicts the notion, we can't rate it using the notion.

 

[Elizhaa]

Our system goes on the basis of M Theory saying if you were to take a single bit of 3D matter and compare it to 2d matter, it would have infinitely more mass.
If a higher dimension doesn't have objects with infinitely more mass then lower ones, the system and ratings collapse in on themselves, as a 4D wouldn't punch with infinitely more force then a 3D.

If it contradicts the notion, we can't rate it using the notion.

3-D with Higher D powers in fiction like Son Goku (Dragon Ball Super) in things, @DMUA.

 

[Elizhaa]

@DMUA, fictions in general, rarely follow the law of physics of our reality. So, they should analyze from their Verse Setting.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It is case by case, but a statement alone is rarely worth anything. I've never seen any case where a statement di it on it's own.