Simon revisions (And I guess we also bring up High 1-C. Twice.)

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I mean in context it clearly means spatiotemporal dimension

 

[Andytrenom]

@Zac The question isn't whether they are spatiotemporal dimensions or not, it's whether the series treats higher spatio-tempral dimensions as being more than infinitely transcendent to lower ones.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I'm pretty sure they do since Simon or someone else mentions transcending space and time before they do this feat.

 

[DMUA]

3-D with Higher D powers in fiction like Son Goku (Dragon Ball Super) in things, @DMUA.

That's not what I'm saying at all. Of course you can have a lower d with higher d power, but if that higher d power doesn't make them any bit special, then, it's not really a proper higher d.

Funny you bring up Goku because he too has a bit of contradictions to Low 2-C, such as...

• The whole thing being based on a single vague as fork statement of word of God made by people who don't know dimensional tiering
• To back up they don't know Dimensional tiering, Goku literally states he could have fought Infinite Zamasu if he had a sensu bean. Of course that's even more vague and outlandish then the initial statement but

But that's besides the point

The point is that it makes no sense for them to spontaneously go up by 8 infinites and then proceed to struggle with all their might to make mechs with the energy of universes being born the size of galaxies

In fact, speaking of, this would also probably mean that Arc-Gurren Lagan and Super Galaxy Gurren Lagan would also be High 1-C for existing in a High 1-C space at all

You see how out of place this is? I don't remember anything about transcending Spacetime, and I wouldn't take a guy who screams hype stuff with no room for logic just like his big bro as someone who has relable statements. Especially considering that he proceeds to state how he doesn't care about Spacetime whatevers.

However I would trust a supercomputer that states they're outside of space and time, which does not imply Transcendence. Could mean it depending on context, but, considering the context.....

 

[DMUA]

@DMUA, fictions in general, rarely follow the law of physics of our reality. So, they should analyze from their Verse Setting.

Alright good

Gurren Lagann does not treat 10.5 D as having infinite upon infinitely more mass then 3D

Thereby from verse setting analysis they shouldn't be High 1-C considering that High 1-C implies that 10.5d indeed does have infinitely upon infinitely more mass, and thereby power, then 3D.

Seems simple enough if you want to look at it from a verse perspective like that

 

[DragonEmperor23]

They shattered space time with a punch after combining with the moon gunmen.

 

[DMUA]

Space time shattering is a Hax, not proof for Dimensional Tiering.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

How is it hax? Isn't the difference from 2-C and 3-A being that you destroy the time space of the universe and not just the universe itself?

 

[Andytrenom]

I don't think we treat higher D as "being able to punch with infinite mass"

Afaik we treat it as the character being able to perceive the lower D as fiction or as a drawing on a paper.

 

[DMUA]

They don't rip apart Spacetime on that scale though. They do it at like, a scale of the size of the moon, which you cannot give an AP value.

Shatter the Spacetime of the universe then we'll talk

 

[Elizhaa]

@DMUA, fictions in general, rarely follow the law of physics of our reality. So, they should analyze from their Verse Setting.

Alright good
Gurren Lagann does not treat 10.5 D as having infinite upon infinitely more mass then 3D

Thereby from verse setting analysis they shouldn't be High 1-C considering that High 1-C implies that 10.5d indeed does have infinitely upon infinitely more mass, and thereby power, then 3D.

Seems simple enough if you want to look at it from a verse perspective like that

It does.

the Super Spiral Universe is noted to be a dimensional space-time universe in between the membranes of the 10th and 11th spatiotemporal dimensions

 

[DMUA]

I don't think we treat higher D as "being able to punch with infinite mass"

Afaik we treat it as the character being able to perceive the lower D as fiction or as a drawing on a paper.

I think we mix both, but I dunno

But if we do treat it like that, it raises yet another contradiction in the form of the people on Earth somehow perceiving High 1-Cs fighting... Eledgedly. Then again that's mostly just rule of "fork you it's Gurren Lagann, a Gainax production where we're gonna have a space fight woth everyone cheering on" more likely then not, but still

 

[Arekusuripa]

>He's just not physically 11D, he's still just 3D.

Huh, so i was right when said that his body is still 3-D.

 

[Elizhaa]

In Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (Mech)'s profile

• likely Immeasurable (A higher dimensional nature would explain the speed which the events were taking place as well as the regular humans' ability to perceive the events occuring through the rift in space the Anti-Spiral produces).

 

[Elizhaa]

>He's just not physically 11D, he's still just 3D.

Huh, so i was right when said that his body is still 3-D.

I don't mind this and I would agree

 

[DMUA]

the Super Spiral Universe is noted to be a dimensional space-time universe in between the membranes of the 10th and 11th spatiotemporal dimensions

None of that implies said spacetemporal dimensions actually possess infinitely more mass then lower dimensions, and especially doesn't leave enough implications to take care of the contradictions.

Bring me something I don't already know and have thought about.

 

[Elizhaa]

the Super Spiral Universe is noted to be a dimensional space-time universe in between the membranes of the 10th and 11th spatiotemporal dimensions

None of that implies said spacetemporal dimensions actually possess infinitely more mass then lower dimensions, and especially doesn't leave enough implications to take care of the contradictions.

I pretty sure most fictions don't describe dimensions to that level of real-life physics and give dimensional statement from the context of their stories. Gurren Lagann (Verse) provide some of most scientific evidence than most from what I have seen, and I have seen a lot justifications.

 

[DMUA]

Yes but it also blaintly contradicts it and throwing around super science terms doesn't help their case

Ordinary people are able to perceive Higher Dimensional constructs (that explaination attached to Immeasurable makes absolutely no sense for reference)

Supposedly increasing their mass by 8 entire infinites to fit into 10.5D space isn't even treated as that big of a deal, presumably because they didn't actually increase their mass by 8 infinites and rather the nature of dimensions aren't going off of M Theory and are treated as something else

Show me actual science instead of just throwing around important sounding terminology and expecting it to logically work

 

[Andytrenom]

Will you stop using "10.5D" space lol

They are either 10D or 11 D not some strange hybrid of the two.

 

[DMUA]

I mean that's literally what the Anti Spiral layer is described as, in-between the 10th and 11th dimension.

In fact fun fact, we right now are not 3D, we're 3.5 D going by M Theory

So

Yeah there's some scientific merit

 

[Andytrenom]

Anyway, the humans being able to perceive them could simply mean they are 3-D with 10-11D power or PIS.

That argument specifically doesn't seem like a good justification for a downgrade.

 

[InfiniteBlack123]

I mean that's literally what the Anti Spiral layer is described as, in-between the 10th and 11th dimension.

In fact fun fact, we right now are not 3D, we're 3.5 D going by M Theory

So

Yeah there's some scientific merit

We were never 3D period. We are out right between 4D and 5D

 

[Elizhaa]

Show me actual science instead of just throwing around important sounding terminology and expecting it to logically work

It is a case by case basis. In the context of this shown, reality warping and abilities like pretty much mean science is disregarded. It should evaluate from the setting of the show again. By scientific logic, Dimensional Tiering upgrade is impossible anyway. So, agin case by case basis via fiction verse.

 

[DMUA]

PIS is possible in that argument yes

But, if you take that, along with Anti Spiral not just just moving out of Simon's reach considering he's supposed to be higher Dimensional in physiology, and them just going up by 8 infinites and completelu glossing over it, then, it's way more questionable.

Then again it's more like 7 considering everything but still, despite all it's scientific terminology, a lot of stuff doesn't add up. Best explaination I'd see is simply that: they don't use M Theory.

 

[DMB_1]

Fairly sure that the way they are describing it doesn't mean "Spiral Dude has 10.5 Dimensions!", but rather "it could have either 10 or 11 dimensions".

Having a non-whole number of dimension is unquantifiable anyways.

 

[DMUA]

It is a case by case basis. In the context of this shown, reality warping and abilities like pretty much mean science is disregarded.

Then why are we applying Science to make this verse stronger then it treats itself as?

If you want to take a scientific lense, a ton of stuff doesn't add up, if you don't take a scientific lense, they don't qualify for High 1-C as we treat it on this site.

 

[Elizhaa]

Science is really only applicable via the use of the Tiering System and Calculations, @DMUA. Other, it is the verse setting that take precidence.

 

[DMUA]

The tiering system doesn't apply here though

Dimensional tiering goes off M Theory

M Theory, based on multiple points of evidence, is not being used here

Stop babbling "muh dimensions" and actually think about how those dimensions are implied

Bring up something new with your own indpendent thoughts instead of judt driving us in a stinking circle

Also are you seriously kudoing yourself

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The Multiversal Labyrinth is either 10D or 11D, and Simon absorbed it according to a guidebook.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Look, don't self kudos. It makes you look... arrogant?

It's not the first time I would be wrong, so saying that I (And others) might be wrong is something I could accept, bu if you givekudos to yourself you make me want to dig in my heels even if you did present something that actually could coinvince me..

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also I agree with Nedge.

 

[DMUA]

I'm not denying it's 10D-11D, that's pretty blaintly stated

What I am saying however is that it's pretty clearly not treated as M Theory dimensions which our system goes off of

 

[Elizhaa]

Kudos- Using Touch-screens device, it happens; I am not insecure about it.

@DMUA, please stay on topic, a question only my arguments, not character because it does NOT help any case and it is Appeal to Motive Fallacy. If you confuse about my evidences, ask for clarifications and don't infer at all.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

From a cursory glance, what I'm looking at in the OP seems perfectly valid. I'll give it a better analysis later on when I'm not fresh out of waking up.

 

[Elizhaa]

I'm not denying it's 10D-11D, that's pretty blaintly stated
What I am saying however is that it's pretty clearly not treated as M Theory dimensions which our system goes off of

The M-Theory defines the sum totality of an entire multiverse, with all higher dimensions included, as a 10 to 11-dimensional structure. We follow the convention of a complete multiverse being 11-dimensional.
	~ Tiering System​

 

[DMUA]

Kudos- Using Touch-screens device, it happens; I am not insecure about it.

Then just tap it again if it was a mistake

Yes I know, but, at the same time I would perfer if you actually brought up something I haven't thought about and addressed. You're just going in a circle of dimensions and haven't brought anything up as to the meaning of what you're actually saying.

 

[Elizhaa]

What meaning?

 

[DMUA]

The whole point of why our system works as it does.

Despite the blatant contradictions to applying M Theory's conception of one dimension having infinitely more mass then a lower one, you're just going in circles bringing up how our system uses dimensions. You don't actually look into what dimensions could mean. You're just saying "muh dimensions" and not actually addressing my points as to why that doesn't work

 

[Elizhaa]

I'm not denying it's 10D-11D, that's pretty blaintly stated
What I am saying however is that it's pretty clearly not treated as M Theory dimensions which our system goes off of

You did not deny it is 10-11D. So, you were correct about it being M-theory. Both can happen and it still qualifies under the tiering system. So, nothing, I said overall is wrong.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Long story short, in-verse dimensions aren't infinitly (more than infinitly but whatever) above lower ones.

That alone makes using it with the tier of the M theory version of a dimension just wrong.