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Shūkurō Tsukishima vs Yami Sukehiro

azontr said:
mujikcboro-seriymujik.gif
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When the people you accuse of trolling actually request for you to debate and respond to their arguments instead of crying, so you dip.
Click to expand...
 
Kazuma_kuwabara said:
I appreciate those post, but then I have to read "garou outskills" in the middle of the debate and is like "reserve that to when the thread is finished man"
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🗿

People are allowed to meme and have fun within threads my guy.

Like idk what to tell you, we're debating ******* anime characters for god sake.

Of course we aren't going to take this that seriously.
 
Deceived said:
Yami could use Ki sensing against Tsukishima before Tsukishima uses Bringer Light but that doesn't matter since Ki sensing isn't this somesort of Precog that allows Yami to see into the future like Yhwach's Almighty or Observation Haki.

It's just someone that allows Yami to predict the movements of someone through sensing their "ki", doing so to such proficiency that it allows him to predict the "future" movements of his opponent.

So after Tsukishima uses Bringer Light he'll completely negate Yami's Ki sensing and such his ability to predict Tsukishima's actions, allowing Tsukishima to get a single cut off of on Yami, which at that time he'll basically have this fight in the bag.
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Isn’t bringer light only active as long as he moves?

and Ki sensing has been used to predict a guy where a person or an attack teleports. Predict danmaku and counter, etc. but answer my question first
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Isn’t bringer light only active as long as he moves?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Arnoldstone18 said:
and Ki sensing has been used to predict a guy where a person or an attack teleports. Predict danmaku and counter, etc. but answer my question first
Click to expand...
None of which you have stated matters since those attacks don't negate or even hamper Yami's ability to predict someone's future movements like Bringer Light would do since it has that inherent effect within it while those attacks don't.
 
Predicting Teleportation is some basic shit for Analytical Prediction user's. The Danmaku thing could be used as an actual argument depending on how the mechanics work.
 
Deceived said:
Yes.


None of which you have stated matters since those attacks don't negate or even hamper Yami's ability to predict someone's future movements like Bringer Light would do since it has that inherent effect within it while those attacks don't.
Click to expand...

You don’t understand what I’m saying.

Yami can read Ki and then act. It’s not a continuous process. He just does it in an instant and acts.

That’s why I asked if BL is only active as he moves. Because Yami can read his Ki when Tsukihima is stationary to predict where he will go in BL. He doesn’t need to sense BL to know because he already knew prior to BL’s use. Yami proceeds to attack with Iai Slash or Death Thrust.

Iai Slash

Will Tsukihima change his mind in BL? Not yet at least. I will explain with two attacks Yami can go with.

Yami does not have to move at all if he goes with Iai Slash. So there is nothing Yami will do that will hint at Tsukihima to change his mind about his movements. To Tsukihima’s surprise Yami will strike him.

Death Thrust

Yami outright blitzes the man before he makes any moves. Death Thrust is too superior to Iai Slash in speed and power. He can’t even dodge Death Thrust with Bringer Light. The highest BL can be wanked to is being comparable to Iai Slash level in speed. Yami blows his torso away.

miscellaneous

Even though he won’t get a chance to utilize BOTE at all much less it’s full potential. Yami still has power nullification with his Mana Zone + Black Moon that nullifies abilities within range. That should still take care of BOTE right? Yeah it definitely should and probably BL too.

LordGinSama said:
Predicting Teleportation is some basic shit for Analytical Prediction user's. The Danmaku thing could be used as an actual argument depending on how the mechanics work.
Click to expand...
Oh Asta can block danmaku attacks with his eyes closed. Yami can without even looking at what he’s doing while also teaching and protecting Asta. Not to mention it’s boosted with Mana Zone, and even further the more and more he condenses Mana Zone.
 
@Arnoldstone18 I'll address the above tomorrow since i'm currently dead tired.

But i'll address the fact that Yami isn't going to instantly go into using Condensed Mana Zone + Ial Slash or Death Thrust in this fight because he quite literally never does that in a fight, even after sensing someone's ki like in his fights against Dante or Lucifero.

Tsukishima wouldn't be any different to those stated examples above.

Also i explained why him sensing Tsukishima's Ki before he uses Bringer Light doesn't help your point at all, Ki sensing doesn't grant Yami this precognation that'll allow him to see the exact events that'll happen in the future, what Ki sensing allows Yami to do is "predict" his opponents actions before they do them through sensing their ki, Tsukishima's Bringer Light would null this sense and thus negate Yami's form of precog.

Even if i grant you then he'll be able to react towards the first attack of Tsukishima he would still get him by the second or third attack that he didn't predict with Ki sensing because of Tsukishima's Bringer Light negging that sensing ability.
 
Pretty sure Ki sensing is more identical to Analytical Prediction than it full blown precognition.

BL should stop most forms of Analytical Prediction unless it's some crazy bullshit like in Kengan that's borderline precognition and layered as ****.
 
LordGinSama said:
Pretty sure Ki sensing is more identical to Analytical Prediction than it full blown precognition.

BL should stop most forms of Analytical Prediction unless it's some crazy bullshit like in Kengan that's borderline precognition and layered as ****.
Click to expand...
I’m busy at the moment.

but you guy make it seem like the dude is freaking invisible. Can Yami see him Yes or No?

will respond soon @Deceived
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
BL is a technique that’s FTE to people that can keep up with Tsukishima otherwise (as is most hoho techniques in Bleach). So he’s not literally invisible
Click to expand...
Oh, you actually mentioned that... before...

Deceived said:
@Arnoldstone18 I'll address the above tomorrow since i'm currently dead tired.

But i'll address the fact that Yami isn't going to instantly go into using Condensed Mana Zone + Ial Slash or Death Thrust in this fight because he quite literally never does that in a fight, even after sensing someone's ki like in his fights against Dante or Lucifero.

Tsukishima wouldn't be any different to those stated examples above.

Also i explained why him sensing Tsukishima's Ki before he uses Bringer Light doesn't help your point at all, Ki sensing doesn't grant Yami this precognation that'll allow him to see the exact events that'll happen in the future, what Ki sensing allows Yami to do is "predict" his opponents actions before they do them through sensing their ki, Tsukishima's Bringer Light would null this sense and thus negate Yami's form of precog.

Even if i grant you then he'll be able to react towards the first attack of Tsukishima he would still get him by the second or third attack that he didn't predict with Ki sensing because of Tsukishima's Bringer Light negging that sensing ability.
Click to expand...

Alright, even though Yami does not need Ki to win this I want to correct a few things wrong here. I know Bringer Light negs Ki here. I was arguing that Yami can use Ki before bringer light is used. Yami can still predict mere movements before he actually moves. He will know the direction he wants to go with BL before he actually uses BL. Nobody is arguing that it works when BL is used. It just works beforehand. Ki is precognition and not "analytical prediction", there is no way deducing the location of teleportation is an "analytical prediction" feat. Neither is blocking danmaku-style attacks without looking and taking any damage. Yami is capable of doing both simultaneously anyway. Why does BL even limited resistance if it just makes him harder to sense? you people make it seem like it is impossible to sense.

Since Bringer Light doesn't make the man invisible and it's just an FTE speed boost, Yami literally doesn't need to use Ki even though he can before BL is used. All Yami needs to do is to use a condensed Mana Zone to keep up with Bringer Light and blitz him with Death Thrust. depending on how much Yami condenses his Mana Zone it allows him to move at FTE speeds to match BL and surpass it.


LASTLY

Book of the ends needs to cut Yami for its weird shit to work. Yami won't let that happen and would just incorperate his Iai Slash and Death Thrust. However, if you manage to pull some bullshit that makes it possible for Tsukihima to somehow strike Yami even with regular Mana Zone active. Then Yami simply surpasses his limit and beats him. When Yami surpasses his limit he creates spells that are stronger than before and spells that are best fitted for the situation. Book of the end does not work on abilities never shown in the past so like @LIFE_OF_KING puts it earlier. If Death Thrust blitzing does not work the way it is supposed to, then Yami simply surpasses his limit. Of all people you picked Yami who is known for surpassing his limit and creating spells best suited for situatios in most of his battles. Thats how Tsukihima lost against Byakuya, thats how he loses here again.


Yami FRA
 
Yami FRA
Don't really think a dude that lost for the sole reason of Surpass Your Limits is doing anything against a verse with Surpass Your Limits Manipulation
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Oh, you actually mentioned that... before...



Alright, even though Yami does not need Ki to win this I want to correct a few things wrong here. I know Bringer Light negs Ki here. I was arguing that Yami can use Ki before bringer light is used. Yami can still predict mere movements before he actually moves. He will know the direction he wants to go with BL before he actually uses BL. Nobody is arguing that it works when BL is used. It just works beforehand. Ki is precognition and not "analytical prediction", there is no way deducing the location of teleportation is an "analytical prediction" feat. Neither is blocking danmaku-style attacks without looking and taking any damage. Yami is capable of doing both simultaneously anyway. Why does BL even limited resistance if it just makes him harder to sense? you people make it seem like it is impossible to sense.

Since Bringer Light doesn't make the man invisible and it's just an FTE speed boost, Yami literally doesn't need to use Ki even though he can before BL is used. All Yami needs to do is to use a condensed Mana Zone to keep up with Bringer Light and blitz him with Death Thrust. depending on how much Yami condenses his Mana Zone it allows him to move at FTE speeds to match BL and surpass it.


LASTLY

Book of the ends needs to cut Yami for its weird shit to work. Yami won't let that happen and would just incorperate his Iai Slash and Death Thrust. However, if you manage to pull some bullshit that makes it possible for Tsukihima to somehow strike Yami even with regular Mana Zone active. Then Yami simply surpasses his limit and beats him. When Yami surpasses his limit he creates spells that are stronger than before and spells that are best fitted for the situation. Book of the end does not work on abilities never shown in the past so like @LIFE_OF_KING puts it earlier. If Death Thrust blitzing does not work the way it is supposed to, then Yami simply surpasses his limit. Of all people you picked Yami who is known for surpassing his limit and creating spells best suited for situatios in most of his battles. Thats how Tsukihima lost against Byakuya, thats how he
loses here again.


Yami FRA
Click to expand...

Yami FRA
Surpass your limits GG
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Book of the ends needs to cut Yami for its weird shit to work. Yami won't let that happen and would just incorperate his Iai Slash and Death Thrust. However, if you manage to pull some bullshit that makes it possible for Tsukihima to somehow strike Yami even with regular Mana Zone active. Then Yami simply surpasses his limit and beats him. When Yami surpasses his limit he creates spells that are stronger than before and spells that are best fitted for the situation. Book of the end does not work on abilities never shown in the past so like @LIFE_OF_KING puts it earlier. If Death Thrust blitzing does not work the way it is supposed to, then Yami simply surpasses his limit. Of all people you picked Yami who is known for surpassing his limit and creating spells best suited for situatios in most of his battles. Thats how Tsukihima lost against Byakuya, thats how he loses here again.
Click to expand...
This makes sense to me
Yami FRA though i can be convinced to counter vote if valid arguments against yami's surpass your limits bs can be brought up
 
Oh and to solidify the fact that Ki isn’t just “analytical predictions”

Yami can predict those who are literally intangible and invisible
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Oh, you actually mentioned that... before...



Alright, even though Yami does not need Ki to win this I want to correct a few things wrong here. I know Bringer Light negs Ki here. I was arguing that Yami can use Ki before bringer light is used. Yami can still predict mere movements before he actually moves. He will know the direction he wants to go with BL before he actually uses BL. Nobody is arguing that it works when BL is used. It just works beforehand. Ki is precognition and not "analytical prediction", there is no way deducing the location of teleportation is an "analytical prediction" feat. Neither is blocking danmaku-style attacks without looking and taking any damage. Yami is capable of doing both simultaneously anyway. Why does BL even limited resistance if it just makes him harder to sense? you people make it seem like it is impossible to sense.

Since Bringer Light doesn't make the man invisible and it's just an FTE speed boost, Yami literally doesn't need to use Ki even though he can before BL is used. All Yami needs to do is to use a condensed Mana Zone to keep up with Bringer Light and blitz him with Death Thrust. depending on how much Yami condenses his Mana Zone it allows him to move at FTE speeds to match BL and surpass it.


LASTLY

Book of the ends needs to cut Yami for its weird shit to work. Yami won't let that happen and would just incorperate his Iai Slash and Death Thrust. However, if you manage to pull some bullshit that makes it possible for Tsukihima to somehow strike Yami even with regular Mana Zone active. Then Yami simply surpasses his limit and beats him. When Yami surpasses his limit he creates spells that are stronger than before and spells that are best fitted for the situation. Book of the end does not work on abilities never shown in the past so like @LIFE_OF_KING puts it earlier. If Death Thrust blitzing does not work the way it is supposed to, then Yami simply surpasses his limit. Of all people you picked Yami who is known for surpassing his limit and creating spells best suited for situatios in most of his battles. Thats how Tsukihima lost against Byakuya, thats how he loses here again.


Yami FRA
Click to expand...
Yeah no this isn't true at all and i'll create a large post explaining why this isn't true later own, just woke up.

So everyone can calm down with their goon ass "Yami FRA" post for a sec.
 
Gumball_Ushiromiya said:
Convince me otherwise sire🗿
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If what convinced you is someone's poorly explained counters to what i said in my previous post.

A literal ******* Garou Adapts meme in the form of Yami surpassing his limits to somehow negate ******* Causality Manipulation and Mind Manipulation that'll instantly brick Yami's brain.

And Arnold not addressing the fact that Yami doesn't pull with using those two abilities in the very beginning of a fight as shown with Dante and Lucifero.

Then it should be very easy to convince you otherwise. (Unless you're a Black Clover goon, then nothing can convince you otherwise)
 
Deceived said:
If what convinced you is someone's poorly explained counters to what i said in my previous post.

A literal ******* Garou Adapts meme in the form of Yami surpassing his limits to somehow negate ******* Causality Manipulation and Mind Manipulation that'll instantly brick Yami's brain.

And Arnold not addressing the fact that Yami doesn't pull with using those two abilities in the very beginning of a fight as shown with Dante and Lucifero.

Then it should be very easy to convince you otherwise. (Unless you're a Black Clover goon, then nothing can convince you otherwise)
Click to expand...
Lol
I don't like black clover and barely remember shit that happened in this manga
And i have absolutely no knowledge on bleach
All you have to do is make a counter argument negating Arnolds own rebuttal to arguments mentioned above
As I've already quoted during the vote i gave

Gumball_Ushiromiya said:
though i can be convinced to counter vote if valid arguments against yami's surpass your limits bs can be brought up
Click to expand...
^
No need to get aggressive now
That said
I await your counter argument
 
Gumball_Ushiromiya said:
Lol
I don't like black clover and barely remember shit that happened in this manga
And i have absolutely no knowledge on bleach
All you have to do is make a counter argument negating Arnolds own rebuttal to arguments mentioned above
As I've already quoted during the vote i gave


^
No need to get aggressive now
That said
I await your counter argument
Click to expand...
I agree, instead of getting aggressive he should focus on a counter, that being said I am a fan of bleach and the Arnold’s argument is more convincing.
 
16sa_vage said:
I agree, instead of getting aggressive he should focus on a counter, that being said I am a fan of bleach and the Arnold’s argument is more convincing.
Click to expand...
🤣🤣🤣🤣

Y’all some soft ass mfs.

Because he used a swear word negates his entire critique of y’all’s FRA train nonsense as aggressive. This is hilarious.
 
Arcker123 said:
🤣🤣🤣🤣

Y’all some soft ass mfs.

Because he used a swear word negates his entire critique of y’all’s FRA train nonsense as aggressive. This is hilarious.
Click to expand...
No, nobody said it negates his critique, we’re just saying that he should convince us which he said would be easy to do. And trying to debate with no swear words and trying to have a calm argument isn’t a bad thing, it prevents things from escalating and growing out of proportion. This is common knowledge really. Trying to debunk this with “Y’all some soft ass Mfs” is the real joke.
 
Does someone have a scan for this? Mind Manipulation (Those with a developed Magic Power are unaffected by Neige's Snow Magic, which controls the target) i can't find it on any of the Black Clover profiles.

Pretty sure Tsukishima's Book of the End is more then that anyhow, if Tsukishima "hypothetically" cut Yami he would skill stomp and one shot asap knowing Yami's capability to AD.
 
16sa_vage said:
No, nobody said it negates his critique, we’re just saying that he should convince us which he said would be easy to do. And trying to debate with no swear words and trying to have a calm argument isn’t a bad thing, it prevents things from escalating and growing out of proportion. This is common knowledge really. Trying to debunk this with “Y’all some soft ass Mfs” is the real joke.
Click to expand...
Gumball_Ushiromiya said:
💀who said him saying "*******" negated his point
Click to expand...
🗿

Guys. Obviously, what I mean when I say “negated” is how y’all just ignored his actual point and said he was getting aggressive because he used a swear word. Not hard.
 
Loyd said:
Does someone have a scan for this? Mind Manipulation (Those with a developed Magic Power are unaffected by Neige's Snow Magic, which controls the target) i can't find it on any of the Black Clover profiles
Click to expand...
This something that was "recently" considered to be a bunk resistance since Negie's Magic only works on small children without much mana.

It just hasn't been removed from the profiles yet since Clover is currently dealing with larger things for the verse and irl stuff.
 
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