Mash Burnedead and the Devil Host's Rematch (Mash vs Asta)

[Arkenis]

I just stopped responding since the argument devolved into instinctive reaction arguments which I admitted already would make it hard for Mashle but not impossible. Both have good win cons and I would vote for Asta if he had something better to neg Mashle. I generally think every time Asta tries to swing his sword, Mashle will go in for a grab or evade then go in for another grab.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I just stopped responding since the argument devolved into instinctive reaction arguments which I admitted already would make it hard for Mashle but not impossible. Both have good win cons and I would vote for Asta if he had something better to neg Mashle. I generally think every time Asta tries to swing his sword, Mashle will go in for a grab or evade then go in for another grab.

For the record, his name is Mash. The title of the series is Mashle, a combination of muscles, magic and mushrooms.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I just stopped responding since the argument devolved into instinctive reaction arguments which I admitted already would make it hard for Mashle but not impossible. Both have good win cons and I would vote for Asta if he had something better to neg Mashle. I generally think every time Asta tries to swing his sword, Mashle will go in for a grab or evade then go in for another grab.

I literally mentioned other abilities that make it impossible for Mash to hit Asta much less grab. What are you talking about?

 

[Arkenis]

For the record, his name is Mash. The title of the series is Mashle, a combination of muscles, magic and mushrooms.

Not sure why i kept saying mashle lmao

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Ive said Asta can predict Mash's movements, throw his senses off and fight instinctively and all you've said is "he fights instinctively, therefore, he will grab asta eventually". What?... bruh...

 

[Arkenis]

Ive said Asta can predict Mash's movements, throw his senses off and fight instinctively and all you've said is "he fights instinctively, therefore, he will grab asta eventually". What?... bruh...

Yeah that is my argument. Mash will at some point land a grab and then he’ll choke asta out. And the senses thing gets countered by Mash’s IR and his AD where he’ll end up reacting better and better to Asta’s attacks.

I’ll try and write something better later for his ir and ad generally allow him to win here.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yeah that is my argument. Mash will at some point land a grab and then he’ll choke asta out. And the senses thing gets countered by Mash’s IR and his AD where he’ll end up reacting better and better to Asta’s attacks.

I’ll try and write something better later for his ir and ad generally allow him to win here.

Anyway, Mash is not going to grab Asta anytime soon if he is predictable and gets slashed with a force 5x greater than him.

So in your next write-up do the following:

1. make sure you tell me how Mash's AD can work when his senses are thrown off, and when Asta's AD is also in effect.

2. make sure you tell me why Mash's IR counters Asta's precognition and IR.

3. make sure you tell me why Asta is not ending in two hits.



Goodluck.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Anyway, Mash is not going to grab Asta anytime soon if he is predictable and gets slashed with a force 5x greater than him.

So in your next write-up do the following:

1. make sure you tell me how Mash's AD can work when his senses are thrown off, and when Asta's AD is also in effect.

2. make sure you tell me why Mash's IR counters Asta's precognition and IR.

3. make sure you tell me why Asta is not ending in two hits.



Goodluck.

Isnt the AP one shot ago getting increased or something? I heard something about that.

Also, this thread is a mistake, so much discourse its caused....

 

[Arkenis]

1. make sure you tell me how Mash's AD can work when his senses are thrown off, and when Asta's AD is also in effect.

I don't know how his senses being thrown off means he can't develop to react better after seeing the first or second or third or fourth swing from Asta. Also Kiato's thing threw off Asta's ki sensing, not other things like Mash's ESP which just allows him to sense people's power and how strong an attack will be before it's even done. And just to use mash's own words "I've already seen your trick once. So, you know... it's kinda played out" Mash will simply develop to Asta's attacks and inevitably be able to avoid them all.

2. make sure you tell me why Mash's IR counters Asta's precognition and IR.

Is that my argument? I'm only saying Mash's IR just makes it harder for Asta to hit him, same for Mash as I admitted.

3. make sure you tell me why Asta is not ending in two hits.

My response to 1 mainly covers this but ok.
Can go underground, something @AnAverageUsername already brought up, but it can be used to evade hits like he did to sound.
Can just pseudo fly to evade as well though Asta can also fly too but still its a counter anyway.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Isnt the AP one shot ago getting increased or something? I heard something about that.

I think I saw one thread talking about this

the increase won't be that high, or at least it shouldn't.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I think I saw one thread talking about this

the increase won't be that high, or at least it shouldn't.

Ah, ok, just heard something about it because apperently that's only if an attack hits a vital when going from 10-B or 10-A to 9-C. Of course, weapons are always fatal.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Have several times AP different wouldnt one shot Mash

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I don't know how his senses being thrown off means he can't develop to react better after seeing the first or second or third or fourth swing from Asta. Also Kiato's thing threw off Asta's ki sensing, not other things like Mash's ESP which just allows him to sense people's power and how strong an attack will be before it's even done. And just to use mash's own words "I've already seen your trick once. So, you know... it's kinda played out" Mash will simply develop to Asta's attacks and inevitably be able to avoid them all.

I will explain it to you then

If Mash's senses are getting constantly thrown off, he will not be able to react better, because he needs to use his senses to literally see how he wants to react. Mash will not be able to understand Asta's movements to react accordingly unless he has feats of reacting better to moves that throw off his senses.

Kiato threw off Asta's regular senses and not just his ability to sense Ki and Mash's ESP is literally not combat-applicable and Asta can feel a person's aura. literally did that in chapter 2.

After Asta slashes him twice or thrice he is literally done so Mash may not even be alive by the 4 chance, assuming he can even sense to understand Asta's movements to begin with.


FYI Asta is capable of adapting better to attacks after 1 or 2 tries. Asta can improve his skill set too. Mash isn't the only one with good AD.

Is that my argument? I'm only saying Mash's IR just makes it harder for Asta to hit him, same for Mash as I admitted.

That's my issue

If Mash's instinctive movements are predictable then its completely useless.

My response to 1 mainly covers this but ok.
Can go underground, something @AnAverageUsername already brought up, but it can be used to evade hits like he did to sound.
Can just pseudo fly to evade as well though Asta can also fly too but still its a counter anyway.

Then these are not counters

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Have several times AP different wouldnt one shot Mash

Never said it would be one shot, 3 or 4 slash attacks are enough. Or can Mash fight without all his limbs?

 

[Arkenis]

If Mash's senses are getting constantly thrown off, he will not be able to react better, because he needs to use his senses to literally see how he wants to react. Mash will not be able to understand Asta's movements to react accordingly unless he has feats of reacting better to moves that throw off his senses.

Wdym thrown off? Can I just see like a scan of how it looks?

Mash's ESP is literally not combat-applicable

It is, it's literally done in a fight.

Then these are not counters

They are. If Asta goes for a hit, Mash digs underground and evades the hit.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Never said it would be one shot, 3 or 4 slash attacks are enough. Or can Mash fight without all his limbs?

Even with 10 Slash it doesnt enough to Kill him, like this

https://official-ongoing-1.ivalice.us/manga/Mashle/0026-014.png

https://official-ongoing-1.ivalice.us/manga/Mashle/0026-007.png

https://official-ongoing-1.ivalice.us/manga/Mashle/0027-021.png

Or stab him like this

https://official-ongoing-1.ivalice.us/manga/Mashle/0026-015.png

Or even like this https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Mashle/0094-015.png

Mash always Holding back against his opponent until he need to, what stopping Mash for adapating and tier jump?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Wdym thrown off? Can I just see like a scan of how it looks?

Asta only states that his senses are thrown off and that he can't sense his Ki

There is nothing else other than Asta struggling till he decides to copy his moves and use it against him. So like I said, unless Mash has feats of reacting better to moves that throw his senses off, then he is not reacting better to Asta's moves.

It is, it's literally done in a fight.

...

Asta doesn't have aura.

so why did you bring this up again?

They are. If Asta goes for a hit, Mash digs underground and evades the hit.

So you are saying Mash will start with this and do this over and over and over again? Even when Asta can literally predict his movements to know where he will resurface.

Yeah... no.... that's not a good idea.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Even with 10 Slash it doesnt enough to Kill him, like this

https://official-ongoing-1.ivalice.us/manga/Mashle/0026-014.png

https://official-ongoing-1.ivalice.us/manga/Mashle/0026-007.png

https://official-ongoing-1.ivalice.us/manga/Mashle/0027-021.png

Or stab him like this

https://official-ongoing-1.ivalice.us/manga/Mashle/0026-015.png

Or even like this https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Mashle/0094-015.png

First of all, these characters clearly are not strong enough to decapitate or cut off Mash's limbs. Mash is stronger than them meanwhile Asta is 5x stronger than Mash's match key.

Mash always Holding back against his opponent until he need to, what stopping Mash for adapating and tier jump?

Second of all, OP says he can't jump tiers or this match will be useless. So he will be held back at this key, the same way Asta is not allowed to use his higher forms or Mash will get stomped.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

First of all, these characters clearly are not strong enough to decapitate or cut off Mash's limbs. Mash is stronger than them meanwhile Asta is 5x stronger than Mash's match key.

I wouldn't say Mash is stronger than then fully, more like equal. Mash jobs himself in fear of seriously injuring people. So when he fought these enemies, there wouldn't be much of a difference. It's why Mash is "varies". Mash still has amps as well, in the form of Big Bang Dash or Ballista Knuckle, maybe even Hurricane Rush or Hell Fall.

Second of all, OP says he can't jump tiers or this match will be useless. So he will be held back at this key, the same way Asta is not allowed to use his higher forms or Mash will get stomped.

Soon it'll be the other way around

Asta only states that his senses are thrown off and that he can't sense his Ki

There is nothing else other than Asta struggling till he decides to copy his moves and use it against him. So like I said, unless Mash has feats of reacting better to moves that throw his senses off, then he is not reacting better to Asta's moves.

Mash did fight a wizard who's summon, Adamas, allowed them to shift the magnetic poles to throw off Mash's attacks. Mash then adapted to this quite quickly after a few attacks, so that may count. Don't know if I've mentioned it before.

...

Asta doesn't have aura.

so why did you bring this up again?

Less about aura, more about beastly instincts.

 

[WrongIdea21]

First of all, these characters clearly are not strong enough to decapitate or cut off Mash's limbs. Mash is stronger than them meanwhile Asta is 5x stronger than Mash's match key.

Mash isnt stronger than them until Mash need to be stronger than them, and secondth spell is atleast 10x stronger than the attack that stabed Mash body.

Second of all, OP says he can't jump tiers or this match will be useless. So he will be held back at this key, the same way Asta is not allowed to use his higher forms or Mash will get stomped.

He will held back but if Asta cant One shot him then the scenario would be like that, Asta's First slash have no diffrent with his second slash, so Mash only have to Adapted to it in Second to counter Asta's attack with his reflex.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I wouldn't say Mash is stronger than then fully, more like equal. Mash jobs himself in fear of seriously injuring people. So when he fought these enemies, there wouldn't be much of a difference. It's why Mash is "varies". Mash still has amps as well, in the form of Big Bang Dash or Ballista Knuckle, maybe even Hurricane Rush or Hell Fall.

These amps won't normally blitz Asta because Asta is the faster character. Otherwise look below

Any speed equalized match, in which a major reason a character loses is due to having a disadvantage against some speed value they usually wouldn't have a disadvantage against, may not be added to profiles.

• As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added.

Soon it'll be the other way around

Surrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Mash did fight a wizard who's summon, Adamas, allowed them to shift the magnetic poles to throw off Mash's attacks. Mash then adapted to this quite quickly after a few attacks, so that may count. Don't know if I've mentioned it before.

I don't think it counts because Mash's senses weren't thrown off, only his attacks were. Let me see tho.

Less about aura, more about beastly instincts.

Well on his page it says he senses danger via the opponent's aura.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Mash isnt stronger than them until Mash need to be stronger than them, and secondth spell is atleast 10x stronger than the attack that stabed Mash body.

That's a stab, and it went through the body as youve shown. So if that stab was a slash, mash would've been dead.

He will held back but if Asta can One shot him then the scenario would be like that, Asta's First slash have no diffrent with his second slash, so Mash only have to Adapted to it in Second to counter Asta's attack with his reflex.

Mash would lose parts of his body easily. And asta typically goes for across the body.

 

[WrongIdea21]

That's a stab, and it went through the body as youve shown. So if that stab was a slash, mash would've been dead.

The fact that in he still alive, with the force wich 10x stronger than before he still manage to hold it.

Mash would lose parts of his body easily. And asta typically goes for across the body

I've show you 10x stronger cant make Mash lose any of his hands.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Well on his page it says he senses danger via the opponent's aura

His reflex can save him in any condition.

 

[WrongIdea21]

For addition his Reflex is like this good

 

[Arnoldstone18]

My last reply was rushed because I was busy irl so I didn't really understand what was said here, so before I read the next message I will reply again to the last one.

Mash isnt stronger than them until Mash need to be stronger than them, and secondth spell is at least 10x stronger than the attack that stabed Mash body.

If Mash isn't stronger than them then why are the blades not cutting his body parts off? Or was this as a result of the villain's incompetence or sadistic nature or they didn't intent to kill Mashle?

What is the name of this character?

He will held back but if Asta can One shot him then the scenario would be like that, Asta's First slash have no diffrent with his second slash, so Mash only have to Adapted to it in Second to counter Asta's attack with his reflex.

Has Mash ever adapted to someone whose movements are capable of throwing off senses?

Also, Asta can also develop his techniques on the spot and predict Mash's moves.

Sorry but no matter how it is, the only way for Mash to win legitimately is to let grace end. Otherwise, you'll probably just end up getting this match not added. As far as I'm concerned Asta easily beats Mashle in this tier.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The fact that in he still alive, with the force wich 10x stronger than before he still manage to hold it.


I've show you 10x stronger cant make Mash lose any of his hands.

No you only said the secondth spell is a 10x multiplier and that Mash is not stronger than this character for some weird reason.

Who is the character

His reflex can save him in any condition.

So do Asta's

Asta can easily read his life force to predict his moves as ive said a million times now.

For addition his Reflex is like this good

Sorry to break it to you but every human has those kinds of reflexes.

But of course Mash's reflex would be exaggerated because of a damn cream puff.

It doesn't matter if his movements can be predicted and

Asta has faced and copied a swordsman who can fight with their mind detached. So Mash's creampuff reflex isn't special.

 

[WrongIdea21]

If Mash isn't stronger than them then why are the blades not cutting his body parts off? Or was this as a result of the villain's incompetence or sadistic nature or they didn't intent to kill Mashle?

They want to kill Mash but they cant

What is the name of this character

Abys Razor.

Has Mash ever adapted to someone whose movements are capable of throwing off senses?

No but his Reflex make him can sense danger

Also, Asta can also develop his techniques on the spot and predict Mash's moves.

Sorry but no matter how it is, the only way for Mash to win legitimately is to let grace end. Otherwise, you'll probably just end up getting this match not added. As far as I'm concerned Asta easily beats Mashle in this tier.

How so lol, I've repeated 5x stronger just can defeat Mash even 10x stronger cant because his relativity to always adjust his Ap and Dura to Equal or even above his opponent.

No you only said the secondth spell is a 10x multiplier and that Mash is not stronger than this character for some weird reason.

Because Mash adapted to the any attack and grew stronger.

So do Asta's

Asta can easily read his life force to predict his moves as ive said a million times now.

But have ever Asta read the movement that unpredictable like Body feint?

https://official-ongoing-1.ivalice.us/manga/Mashle/0061-011.png

https://official-ongoing-1.ivalice.us/manga/Mashle/0061-012.png

Sorry to break it to you but every human has those kinds of reflexes.

So why other student doesnt do that?

But of course Mash's reflex would be exaggerated because of a damn cream puff.

It's just additional gag

It doesn't matter if his movements can be predicted and

Asta has faced and copied a swordsman who can fight with their mind detached. So Mash's creampuff reflex isn't special.

Lmao, how come? His reflex can make him Unconsciously sense danger.

 

[WrongIdea21]

At the end I vote Mash

 

[Arkenis]

...

Asta doesn't have aura.

so why did you bring this up again?

it literally says he does it off instinct as well.

So you are saying Mash will start with this and do this over and over and over again? Even when Asta can literally predict his movements to know where he will resurface.

Yeah... no.... that's not a good idea.

no. It's simply just a way for him to avoid it, not his only way.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

They want to kill Mash but they cant

Mash is clearly stronger than Abyss Razor and tanking his slashes.

the slashes are barely deep.

Asta is 5x stronger than Mash in this match. A single strike will decapitate Mash or cut his lower body or limbs off.

AND DONT MENTION ABYSS' SECONDTH BECAUSE THAT SHIT IS A ******* SPEED AMP

No but his Reflex make him can sense danger

Asta doesn't have aura for him to sense danger from.

How so lol, I've repeated 5x stronger just can defeat Mash even 10x stronger cant because his relativity to always adjust his Ap and Dura to Equal or even above his opponent.

Abyss' secondth doesn't make his slashes stronger it only boosts his speed and lower the opponent's speed. Abyss is not 10x stronger than Mash, Mash is obviously stronger.

But have ever Asta read the movement that unpredictable like Body feint?
https://official-ongoing-1.ivalice.us/manga/Mashle/0061-011.png https://official-ongoing-1.ivalice.us/manga/Mashle/0061-012.png

Asta can predict literal teleportations.

Lmao, how come? His reflex can make him Unconsciously sense danger.

His reflexes make him react to danger. Asta also has reflexes, that is why I said it is not special.

So why other student doesnt do that?
It's just additional gag

Human beings have it, if you touch hot water your arm will move on its own to keep you from burning unless you conciously want to burn yourself. look it up, it is called reflex arc in biology.

but Mash's cream puff connection is so strong that it makes his reflexes act that way.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

it literally says he does it off instinct as well.

What is the "it"

if its your scan, it doesnt

no. It's simply just a way for him to avoid it, not his only way.

You keep ignoring the fact that Asta will know when he will resurface.

Asta's first time using his precognition was to predict portals. Now he can predict teleportation. Being underground will only prevent the inevitable. Mash being slashed in half.

 

[Testarossa002]

If Mash's senses are getting constantly thrown off, he will not be able to react better, because he needs to use his senses to literally see how he wants to react. Mash will not be able to understand Asta's movements to react accordingly unless he has feats of reacting better to moves that throw off his senses.

Kiato threw off Asta's regular senses and not just his ability to sense Ki and Mash's ESP is literally not combat-applicable and Asta can feel a person's aura. literally did that in chapter 2.

After Asta slashes him twice or thrice he is literally done so Mash may not even be alive by the 4 chance, assuming he can even sense to understand Asta's movements to begin with.

Nun wanker Asta FRA

 

[WrongIdea21]

Mash is clearly stronger than Abyss Razor and tanking his slashes.

the slashes are barely deep.

Asta is 5x stronger than Mash in this match. A single strike will decapitate Mash or cut his lower body or limbs off.

AND DONT MENTION ABYSS' SECONDTH BECAUSE THAT SHIT IS A ******* SPEED AMP

Increasing the speed = increasing the force, in this verse Following the author following Irl law of physics example Levi's using the Lorentz Force, Orter's slave explain how Lifting strength relevan with AP and Abys' Secondth literally have Force Field Name also he questioning Mash's Power even though he lack of speed, as the conclusion Increasing the speed = increasing the Force in this verse.

Asta doesn't have aura for him to sense danger from

It's not a problem because Mash use his Reflex not depend on someone aura.

Abyss' secondth doesn't make his slashes stronger it only boosts his speed and lower the opponent's speed. Abyss is not 10x stronger than Mash, Mash is obviously stronger.

I've explain above.

Asta can predict literal teleportations.

But the projectile is still predictable, Mash's Body feint is unpredictable because if Asta predicted Mash go left by reading his muscle then Mash will simply go right as a feint.

reflexes make him react to danger. Asta also has reflexes, that is why I said it is not special.

Show me he never caught of guard , Asta have been caught of guard Multiple times, Mash reflexes make him can reacted to attack even though he is of guard.

Human beings have it, if you touch hot water your arm will move on its own to keep you from burning unless you conciously want to burn yourself. look it up, it is called reflex arc in biology.

Human have that reflex but not at Mash's level.

 

[Panache_x]

What is the "it"

if its your scan, it doesnt



You keep ignoring the fact that Asta will know when he will resurface.

Asta's first time using his precognition was to predict portals. Now he can predict teleportation. Being underground will only prevent the inevitable. Mash being slashed in half.

Asta FRA

 

[Arkenis]

What is the "it"

You are not reading the profile my guy.

You keep ignoring the fact that Asta will know when he will resurface.

Asta's first time using his precognition was to predict portals. Now he can predict teleportation. Being underground will only prevent the inevitable. Mash being slashed in half.

So what? Him going underground then popping right back up and dodging the next swing is still countering it.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

This match is going to give me an Aneurysm from both sides

Oh hey, I know what will make me feel better, making a Mash vs Luffy match and having to deal with people getting angry again like here even when it's causing me heavy regret

 

[Kachon123]

Mash vs Luffy

Stop

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Increasing the speed = increasing the force, in this verse Following the author following Irl law of physics example Levi's using the Lorentz Force, Orter's slave explain how Lifting strength relevan with AP and Abys' Secondth literally have Force Field Name also he questioning Mash's Power even though he lack of speed, as the conclusion Increasing the speed = increasing the Force in this verse.

By your "increasing the speed = increasing the force" logic Mash is far stronger than Abyss.

Mash was capable of generating power at slow speeds when Abyss thought it was impossible. So it is either you are wrong about "increasing speed = increasing force" or you are wrong about Mash not being far stronger than Abyss

You know this is wrong, stop. Mash is obviously stronger

It's not a problem because Mash use his Reflex not depend on someone aura.

He can use his reflex, but it's predictable. Asta will know where his body goes and react quicker and better.

But the projectile is still predictable, Mash's Body feint is unpredictable because if Asta predicted Mash go left by reading his muscle then Mash will simply go right as a feint.

Asta reads his life force not muscles so you're wrong.

He is predictable.

Show me he never caught of guard , Asta have been caught of guard Multiple times, Mash reflexes make him can reacted to attack even though he is of guard.

First of all, you are ignoring context.

Tell me one time Asta was caught off guard in battle by an opponent comparable or slower than him

Second of all,

What happened to Mash's reflex? This happened many times in one match...

His reflex is good when Mr. Creampuff is involved.

if the opponent is faster, Mash and Asta will be caught lacking.

This is why Asta gets caught lacking because his opponent bypasses his predictions with an ability and blitz. Remember Licht vs Asta and Yuno? Remember when Licht FTE blitzed them because his aura prevented Asta from sensing his ki?

Human have that reflex but not at Mash's level.

No human has a greater connection to a creampuff than Mash. Without the Creampuff Mash's reflexes would've been normal.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

@AnAverageUsername

Also, Asta can predict and adapted to FTE blitzing before

so even without the rules, Asta will be fine with his precognition and AD.