I don't agree. If it's inconsistent then just rate him at Unknown. Him scaling to a in-shape Naruto or Sasuke just doesn't have a solid basis.
That was chakra attacking Sasuke and it was when Kurama was vastly more independent of Naruto. I'm asking for evidence that Naruto's cloak can defend from surprise attacks, not attack in irregular fashion.
Can I put you down as an agree or neutral or undecided atm?
Can I place you as a disagree or undecided atm?
It's a Chakra CLOAK. It's an armor.
So, do you have examples or no?
I think Imade has solid points, so I'm fine with the change to Unknown for Shin.
It's literally armor, it's always protecting him.
Okay, bet.
Disagree
The surprised attack angle only works if Naruto as a series has shown that characters have different durabilities depending on whether or not they're surprised, but I don't think there's much evidence for such a thing. And past that, Naruto was on guard when he was attacked, he just got surprised by the angle of said attack, so I struggle to see even more why we would treat his durability as something that is drastically lowered. Shin can consistently be weaker and even stomped, but still scale. That's why we have stuff like the At Most rating. Shin is weaker for sure, but he's not weak enough that he can't harm them is the point.
That's before Kurama and him became friends, so it's basically even better later on.kinda a surprise attack
I understand your thinking but see we have problems similar to these, In Sakura's novel, she fights with Kido, who was just a random ninja who used a drug that gave him a copy of kurama's power, but in a much smaller scale than Naruto's, and not even the KM he had, and she fought him equal to equal, she hurt him a lot but she was also extremely hurt, With this drug, these characters were stated to be orders of magnitude stronger than their base form, however, their base form had a level similar to Sai and Ino, i.e. tier 7, even with the multiplier it must not exceed tier 6C, which means that Sakura in that phase was in that same tier. After that she leaves to travel with Sasuke, and becomes pregnant, after that she no longer enters battles and becomes the director of the hospital, that is, there were no battles or training for her to level up to tier 5, nor did she receive power from any god, so it doesn't make sense for her to be tier 5.
It was random Anbu that were relative to Sai and Ino iirc, not Shin. And ngl she was already Tier 5 in Naruto.
The power of an attack comes from mass and velocity. So the speed he moves tools affects its power. Also that kinda is what his profile has already. He's unknown physically, 5-B with tools. Same for durability.
I mean even after he recovered, Shin still injured him through a Shin clone and partially reacted to his Perfect Susanoo in the anime.
You can say this about all the characters who are stronger than they should be. The Kage SHOULDN'T be Six Paths level, but they have pretty direct feats against Momo and Kin.
Gaara should be Baryon Mode level because he's the best character
Not Minato
Not Minato
On the left side of that, it shows Naruto needing the Kurama Avatar to block.
He uses Kurama's cloak to stop Shin from redirecting the attack again. He doesn’t needs it to overpower it.
The quote in question doesnt actually have anything to do with power, its's referring to Naruto's battle sense his ability to react and counter, the only reason why im entertaining the idea that its AP related is because i dont want to debate semantics
not being at you peak doesn't ≠ being billions of times weaker, given that weaker versions of these characters are still 5-B. your creating a false dichotomy between being a 100% and what they scale to.
Not intending to kill does not mean holding back 10000000000 times your own strength. Sasuke intended to incapaciate Shin and used a potent Jutsu to do it. there are dozens of less strenuous ways of incapacitating Shin if the gap is as large as you claim
This argument ignores the broader context of the fight. Sasuke and Naruto actively see Shin as a threat and move into incapacitate him to get answers, their plans are foiled and they are pushed. to argue that its the equivalent of a baby and adult human is disingenuous to whats happening.
This is Copoium . The anime is objectively canon based multitude of statements involved by the people of the production on both sides. its also accepted on the wiki as canon. so this point is a non sequitur.
The anime shows him using Kyubi's chakra to block it
It can mean that if the person you're holding back against is 10000000000 times lower than your own strength.
Ok, the movie is absolutely canon, but the Urashiki Arc should not be scaled to anything because it's a fever dream that is an outlier for everyone within it.
Why is Uraskiki Arc an outlier for everyone, but this isn't?
Because they literally say Jiraiya is stronger than current Naruto and Sasuke in part of it.
this is dependant on the context, and nothing in this context suggest a gap of that magnitude. a person who can react and injure said person isnt trillions of times weaker.
its not, people just haven't actually watched the arc
I'm just saying, 5-B Jiraiya(Stated by current Hinata to be > Sasuke and Naruto) is objectively stupid. Seriously, I so badly wish that instead of the time travel stuff, he fought Kashin Koji.
its not meant to be taken literal Damage. the gap between what shin scales to now what the suggested scale is astronomically different
Nothing in the arc has Jiraiya scaling to a full power Urashiki lol. Urashiki got folded due to everyone catching him off guard and using plans and intellect to outsmart him. Also Urashiki just playing around instead of going for the kill immediately. But if you'd like, we should probably take this to the general thread instead of here because it's derailing the actual OP
What chapter is this?
We might need to do a translation check but Sasuke claims to want to finish this at "full power"
Naruto Gaiden ch 6
No, I mean the bit where current Hinata goes "yeah, he was even stronger than Naruto and Sasuke are."
i dont really remember that statement, but obviously that's not true lol. That doesn't invalidate anything in else in that arc though.
the context of convo is talking about what defines a splendid shinobi.
