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Who would scale above The Last Sasuke
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Shin's failures at life aka downgrade him bruh
- Thread starter KingogKings777
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- #43
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Lmfao
Either way I'm pretty neutral on this whole thing TBH, to give actual input
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This time I agree, and I've given arguments about this before.
As we know, Sasuke's power level is so low that he loses his rinnegan tomoes, so this is his weakest adult version, not even the version of the Urashiki arc was so weak as to lose the tomoes, and we know how weak he was, was being humiliated by Urashiki, and Urashiki was having difficulty even with Jiraiya, this means that the lack of chakra can leave the character with defense and attack at extremely lower levels than usual, this has already been said in the series. In the Retsuden novel, Naruto was without the ability to fill the chakra tubes with his own chakra, and this left him at the level of an ordinary human, which means that the amount of chakra in the tubes is decisive for the character's level, if the amount decreases, he will become weaker, and as we see, Sasuke after losing huge amounts of chakra against Urashiki was at a level lower than level 5, being completely humiliated, but still, he had enough chakra to maintain the Rinnegan tomoes, so it means that the version of the Urashiki's arc is stronger than Gaiden's version. So I believe none of Shin's feats should scale to tier 5.
And well, I also need to say that visually this looks kind of ridiculous, level 5 is a level that during the work, characters like Sasuke, Naruto and Madara needed a lot of hard work, and even outside power to reach this level, even needed to be reincarnation of two ootsutsukis for that, it is the peak of the original series, simply believing that a random character created by orochimaru can reach that level is simply impossible. See, in Boruto, Amado needed the DNA of an Ootsutsuki God to put androids at level 5, it is extremely absurd to think that an Orochimaru creation has the same level...
As we know, Sasuke's power level is so low that he loses his rinnegan tomoes, so this is his weakest adult version, not even the version of the Urashiki arc was so weak as to lose the tomoes, and we know how weak he was, was being humiliated by Urashiki, and Urashiki was having difficulty even with Jiraiya, this means that the lack of chakra can leave the character with defense and attack at extremely lower levels than usual, this has already been said in the series. In the Retsuden novel, Naruto was without the ability to fill the chakra tubes with his own chakra, and this left him at the level of an ordinary human, which means that the amount of chakra in the tubes is decisive for the character's level, if the amount decreases, he will become weaker, and as we see, Sasuke after losing huge amounts of chakra against Urashiki was at a level lower than level 5, being completely humiliated, but still, he had enough chakra to maintain the Rinnegan tomoes, so it means that the version of the Urashiki's arc is stronger than Gaiden's version. So I believe none of Shin's feats should scale to tier 5.
And well, I also need to say that visually this looks kind of ridiculous, level 5 is a level that during the work, characters like Sasuke, Naruto and Madara needed a lot of hard work, and even outside power to reach this level, even needed to be reincarnation of two ootsutsukis for that, it is the peak of the original series, simply believing that a random character created by orochimaru can reach that level is simply impossible. See, in Boruto, Amado needed the DNA of an Ootsutsuki God to put androids at level 5, it is extremely absurd to think that an Orochimaru creation has the same level...
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Not canon
MinatoSparkle
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Such incredulity, much wow
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Neutral for now, I think more Naruto experts would be better at analyzing this like @M3X_2.0 @Jvando and @LordTracer I believe have more in depth knowledge on Naruto scaling than I do?
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Disagree, Shadow and Decieved pretty much summarized my thoughts on this matter. But yes, the profile’s justifications could be changed to be more accurate.
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So what is the accurate justification used to get him to planet level?
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How is it incredulity when the reasoning is using future based feats to scale a weaker version of Sasuke in the past?
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Yeah, I'm on board with that idea too, disagree with downgrades but agree with justification change.
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What is the correct justification change?
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His durability is unknown at this point and the only durability we have is in the future with his fight with Momoshiki which was him stronger then this version, so why would we Shin scale to a weakened Sasuke's durability and use the stronger Sasuke as the base for the weakened Sasuke?
Godernet
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I'd go with some variant of what Shadow said.
incredulity because half his argument is basically "There's no way all these characters should be able to compete with God Tiers" which isn't a valid argument against the scaling, if anything it's just a point of questionable writing making your characters' efforts in a previous series seem pointless.
and the other half is just anime filler which doesn't matter to manga profiles.
because New Era Sasuke is stated to be equal to Naruto. Something that was not stated for previous versions like EoS Sasuke and The Last Sasuke.
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This right here?
Said god tiers are weakened and caught off guard, and the only durability they have for Sasuke is from a future fight, and the previous base durability is unknown.
Take that up with the other guy, not me since I'm not using the anime.
Is it the following?
If so god damn. Why are we using a future Sasuke to rank up a weaker Sasuke in the past?
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Technically it should scale to the force of his own attacks.
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It is canon but there's alot of incredulity in their argument lol
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By "the past" you mean like less than a few months earlier. Meanwhile, a weakened Base Naruto was fighting Fused Momoshiki later on, and NO WAY DOES HE UPSCALE OFF THIS VERSION OF SASUKE.This right here?
Said god tiers are weakened and caught off guard, and the only durability they have for Sasuke is from a future fight, and the previous base durability is unknown.
Take that up with the other guy, not me since I'm not using the anime.
Is it the following?
If so god damn. Why are we using a future Sasuke to rank up a weaker Sasuke in the past?
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? That datebook is for Adult Sasuke isn't it?
The bottom left picture (that says LINK) implies that this is before the Momo Invasion, as he's looking for clues, so this statement should definitely be referring to Shin Arc Sasuke as well, as that was prior to Momo.
Also Disagree FRA
Godernet
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yeah, that's the one just gotta rephrase it a bit.
Sasuke wasn't off guard taking Shin's attack.
And even if Naruto was off-guarded, The Nine-Tails cloak should still protect him even if he's off guard.
It's not like the case with other shinobi where they need to actively use their chakra to deal with attacks. The cloak is constantly protecting him from being attacked by just being in KCM. He's previously face-tanked a Chidori when he was caught off guard by Sasuke's Amenotejikara yet Shin's attack pierced Kurama's chakra.
fair just thought I'd bring it up.
that's one of them. there are multiple I think, I'll go digging for them later but imma go hit up Taco Bell first.Is it the following?
If so god damn. Why are we using a future Sasuke to rank up a weaker Sasuke in the past?
Godernet
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Tier 4 Orochimaru, take it or leave it.
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I have gone far too long without seeing GokuSparkle in a thread. I need to start more Naruto VS Debates.
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Orochimaru vs Frieza is going to be incredible.
Godernet
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thats only if the DB supporters don't find a way to get him to 2C first.
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I mean Namek Saga lol.
Godernet
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Infinite Speed Burter btwSo did I. Incoming Universe+ Namek Saga
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1. The fireball never hits the big shin, only the little shin who got KOed into big Shin by a weakened Sasuke who was trying to take them alive.
2. Shin only manages to hurt Naruto once, which is when he gets caught off guard inside his protective barrier that no one can penetrate with said MS. Are we saying the Chakra fox head is >>> Kurama cloak? Cause that Kurama cloak blocked attacks from small Shin in the previous chapter or 2 with only some Chakra arms.
3. Manages to only hurt Sasuke when he throws himself in front of Saled when weakened. The only reason Shin is getting 5-B is from a scan from the Boruto movie, which is after these events take place.
4. Shin clones managed to hurt/kill the real shin off guard, does this mean they are now all 5-B now cause they caught him off guard?
5. Said Shin clones proceed to get one tapped by everyone involved. Minus the chubby chick and Sakura I think.
6. The clones can't penetrate a on guard Naruto without a cloak or anything just some chakra on his hand.
How is this logical at all to grant them 5-B when they have anti feats where they can't penetrate the person at all?
I never claimed Sasuke was off guard. Only Naruto was off guard, and Sasuke was weakened. It's why I used off guard and weakened together. Cause they a pair.
And yet it didn't protect him when he got caught off guard with Sasuke's blade.
He wasn't caught off guard by Chidori. We know what can happen to people off guard, as shown in the examples, you can hit someone above your paygrade.
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This ain't the argument you think it is.
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To tired to care atm.
Godernet
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a Sasuke with less chakra than usual is still 5-B. Sasuke has spammed Ameno and has still been able to fight God Tiers.
You can still block attacks and be capable of damaging each other. His doing it only once doesn't matter.
there's more than one scan saying they're equal. also, this still means they were equal entering the Momo arc and it's not like Sasuke was getting stronger throughout in fact he was weakened entering the Momo fight.
Shin is not 5-B right now. only his MS ability is.
Weakened Naruto had a decent fight with Fused Momo and one-shot him later with a Massive Rasengan.
Also, I'm pretty sure Sarada beat up the mini surveillance one which is featless. Sakura, Naruto, and Sasuke were the only ones that damaged the Kid Shins and Adult Shin.
Naruto can focus his chakra and perform more powerful feats but even then we've seen that his KCM cloak should still be 5-B from scaling higher than his teenage self. Even
Weakened Sasuke is still 5-B
I wonder why
He saw it but had no time to guard and just got smacked across the Final Valley. His KCM cloak still protects him.
Godernet
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Nard equals Sauce
I think there's another one out there for The Last Sasuke too calling him Kakashi's Strongest Student or something so he might get an upgrade from unknown in the near future.
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Sasuke is only 5-B durability off a future statement for the Momo arc. His base is unknown and Susanoo is 5-B in the previous one.
Yes, it does since it shows it's an outlier by definition of this own site if being caught off guard is ignored. Since nothing changed other then Sasuke being right next to him and inside the protective barrier allowing Shin to catch him off guard.
If said MS can't pierce him at all normally, why would it all of a sudden be able to pierce him? Give one consistent feat at all of Shin being able to perform something like this. You can't cause there's nothing consistent about this feat for Shin. It's either off guard, which I already provided examples for, or an outlier which it fits the definition for.
Yeah for future shit, not this shit at this moment. That's like saying I can scale Haku to future Naruto for hurting the Naruto he was fighting at the time of that arc.
So why couldn't it pierce Naruto's naruto's chakra beforehand? Seems to smell fishy.
It's hard to say if Naruto is weakened at all. Seeing as the manga shows that Momo didn't get any chakra pills from Naruto but has shown chakra pills from Bee.
She hit the ground which KOed a bunch of them iirc.
Noone has any issues with his KCM being 5-B.
No Weakened Sasuke is unknown unless you use a future fight to scale backwards.
It's like he was caught off guard.I wonder why
It's like he was on guard that time, and the other time caught him off guard.
Already addressed this in the previous post. It's asinine to use a future Sasuke with Feats to grant them to a past Sasuke without them.
That then disproves that they are equal if he's the strongest, does it not? Since we now have to conflicting statements. 1 being that Naruto and Sasuke are equal or Sasuke being the strongest.
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Godernet
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the previous key was Sasuke two years after Shippuden so over a decade ago. Shin stuff was not long before Momo.
Context is important. don't use site rules while ignoring the context of feats and abilities.
It did pierce him normally. other times he had the intention to block them and did. Naruto's power doesn't just operate at a single level. He can use more chakra for reinforcing his attacks and defenses and this is a stronger Naruto from Shippuden.
The main point is that we've seen what Naruto's chakra cloak can do previously so if it's now being pierced logically that would mean Shin's MS had the AP to pierce Naruto through Kurama's chakra.
The difference is Naruto actively gets stronger throughout the manga and we see it. you're assuming a power jump between Shin Arc Sasuke and Momo Arc Sasuke that's never implied.
so what you're saying is that if a character is able to block an attack, that attack is automatically not capable of injuring them?
He just fought Momo and Kin during the Exams, protected citizens, and lost an unquantifiable amount of chakra to Momo before the Kage and Sasuke arrived. at some capacity, he was definitely weaker.
back scaling is a credible form of scaling if it's consistent and accurate to what the story is showing. Sasuke is still relative to Naruto who's had 5-B durability since Shippuden.
he was hit before he could even move. what part of that interaction was him on guard?
Not when it's implied by the narrative various times that they are equal. Again we don't assume a power gap when one isn't implied or stated.
The Last Sasuke, 19 year old Sasuke. aka not the key we're talking about.
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Momo was 6 months - a year after this.
The context of feats and abilities show that Shin's ability can't do shit to Naruto previously and only when caught off guard does it manage to damage him at all in one instance.
Only once did it pierce him which was the off guard one which is used to scale him.
If Shin's MS had the AP to pierce through Kuaram's chakra it would have pierced though the head and arms but it didn't.
Yes cause there is shown with Sasuke's chakra and eyes. Cause guess what that Sasuke who fought Momo would manhandle the Sasuke that fought Shin before gaining his chakra back.
You know what I'm saying as I've stated multiple times in this post and others in this thread.
He made a thing to take the explosion and Momo didn't get any chakra form naruto in the manga since it doesn't show any pills made by him.
There is nothing consistent about it though in this situation. Why would it not be credible to use the previous ranking instead?
Him idk staring at Sasuke slapping.
You can not use future feats to grant past events new rankings.
Yeah the key we're talking is Momo scaling backwards which is illogical.
Godernet
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and can you present any evidence that Sasuke's durability improved massively in that time?
Naruto can make himself more durable than Kurama's chakra cloak's innate durability that's not an argument. Even Base Naruto can take attacks from 5-Bs.
the matter of time doesn't matter. He did it once to Sasuke and once to Naruto. feats are feats I'm afraid.
Sasuke without a Rinnegan is still 5-B.
"this is taking too long"
he's been actively taking chakra but is surprised there is so much.
why would we use a rating of a Sasuke from 10 years ago over one from 6 months ago? be fr
stop
you can when there's no implication they've gotten any stronger.
there's no way you think Sasuke's durability getting hundreds of times better in 6 months is more logical. I refuse to believe you actually think that lol
