Sans Intelligence

[RinneItachi]

For the record, the wiki does take implication as valid enough evidence, possibly and likely ratings exist for that very reason. People acting as though the wiki is insanely strict and disagreeing because of that is really just a people problem, not a site itself problem

I would more so say that it can happen if it's pushed really REALLY hard, not that it does happen. I was surprised to see Time Stop on Sans' page one day, and it took multiple threads for that. Do you have any idea how many years it took for Jiren to finally get his deserved resistance to Existence Erasure, because every time a thread came up, people just screamed "HE NEVER DID IT SO IT CAN'T BE TRUE!!!". I could go on for hours bro. This time there is barely any contention with Sans' intelligence in question, it's baffling and makes me laugh.

 

[RinneItachi]

In fact I’ve seen cases where something will be 100% accepted, a single piece of supporting evidence could becomes slightly less valid, and it would instantly be rejected without it even a possibility
like what do people think that’s there for

Oh believe me, I've tried to give characters "possibly" and "likely" ratings for many things in the past, for 100% justifiable reasons. Like giving Goku and Vegeta a "possibly" transmutation resistance because they have it as Vegito, even though Vegito is literally just them, but his Ki is massively increased. Or even giving Vegeta a "likely" heat resistance because Goku and Broly could literally swim in magma while he watched. And later on in the movie he was close to actually touching manga and was perfectly fine even though that would kill someone in a matter of seconds.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Oh believe me, I've tried to give characters "possibly" and "likely" ratings for many things in the past, for 100% justifiable reasons. Like giving Goku and Vegeta a "possibly" transmutation resistance because they have it as Vegito, even though Vegito is literally just them, but his Ki is massively increased. Or even giving Vegeta a "likely" heat resistance because Goku and Broly could literally swim in magma while he watched. And later on in the movie he was close to actually touching manga and was perfectly fine even though that would kill someone in a matter of seconds.

How in the god damn does Vegeta not have heat resistance? I mean, it seems like a thing that would come by default as a ki user in db, and I’d assume by default that also those beam attacks are pretty hot…

 

[RinneItachi]

How in the god damn does Vegeta not have heat resistance? I mean, it seems like a thing that would come by default as a ki user in db, and I’d assume by default that also those beam attacks are pretty hot…

Simple. He never showed it, so it CAN NOT!!! be true. That's the indisputably accurate and never failing Vs. Battles Wiki way. He did eventually get heat resistance but only in extremely specific keys, not including the key where it's mentioned that he can literally use fire balls, only in his SSJG and SSJB keys because that's where Goku showed it. Ignoring how Goku, Goten, and Gohan like to use a raging boiling pot of water over a large, lit fire, as a bath, even in their base forms, with no Ki involved.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Well at least it’s one of those things where you could argue in a vs thread “vegeta could protect himself with ki even if he technically doesn’t resist it”
Vegeta losing to a house fire is crazy tho fr

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Vs. Battles Wiki views evidence in such a flat-earther like manner. "If I can't see it, it's not true!!". This is a circumstance where that idea is being ignored it seems

It's more "We don't take vague statements as hard evidence because it requires us to go through your headcanon/interpretation"

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It's more "We don't take vague statements as hard evidence because it requires us to go through your headcanon/interpretation"

Statements such as “Sans knows Alphys” being too vague is primarily a you problem

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Statements such as “Sans knows Alphys” being too vague is primarily a you problem

Is that what's being concluded?

"Sans knows Alphys" = "Sans definitely should scale to her intelligence feats and is her lab partner"?

Also I'm pretty sure I saw some quotes from Deltarune in the middle of that post

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Also I'm pretty sure I saw some quotes from Deltarune in the middle of that post

Good information analysis feat, was it the disclaimer that said “(deltarune)” which tipped you off?

 

[RinneItachi]

It's more "We don't take vague statements as hard evidence because it requires us to go through your headcanon/interpretation"

I honestly don't care very much about how Sans' intelligence gets rated on Vs. Battles Wiki, I'm more than willing to give my input on how smart he is, however, in this thread, I'm more interested in the fact that double standards seem to be taking place, where, for many characters, implications ARE taken and used, whereas for many MORE characters, they are disregarded as "speculative headcanon" because some people are incapable of grasping that evidence doesn't need to be direct, blatant, forefront, and concrete to be counted as evidence. The issue with this forum and how things work here as a whole correlating to an entire wiki is that standards are inevitably going to be different, as everyone has a different perspective and opinion, and those little, individual perspectives and opinions will inevitably create a very notable difference between different sections of this community, depending on the verse and who is involved in its discussions. Sans getting Time Stop on his page was unfathomably easier than Jiren getting EE resistance, even though the latter had incomparably more evidence to support it. If that's not a ludicrously blatant example of the unbalanced nature of how we run things on this forum, I really don't know what is.

And disregarding what you claim to be merely "vague statements" as headcanon is exactly why I disagree with your entire perspective on versus debating from the very foundations. The entire point of subtle story-telling is that you are supposed to take individual pieces of something and put it together, not to create a theory, but to simply understand. And beyond that, it's often non-subtle instances of these circumstances that this argument is used in. Vegeta having heat resistance, even in just his god forms, was debated literally dozens of times on this forum before it finally got added, even though he should have it in base form and it shouldn't even warrant a single debate, because it is extremely obvious. This argument disregards basic human sense and our capability of understanding subtle details of a story.

Furthermore, the biggest problem with this argument is that you conflate any evidence as being "hard" evidence, when it is not. Evidence can be concrete or merely supportive. Vague statements are a form of supportive evidence, they're not meant to concretely, definitively prove something, they're meant to hint at something, to suggest to us that something is the case, and if you disregard that just because it's not clear-cut and upfront in its point or message, that's why your argumentation is flawed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

offsite scaling is often the most accurate yknow.

 

[RinneItachi]

Anyways I think the thread has gone way too off-topic. I think the majority consensus is in favor of "At least Genius", namely including Ant. Just gonna kind of see how it progresses from here.

offsite scaling is often the most accurate yknow.

Also yeah facts, but it is what it is. I mainly stick around here for the fun discussions, not the scaling discussions. And also because it's just a place to take about fictional media that I enjoy, with some like-minded people too. I prefer it over joining random Discord's. There's also the fact that I've been on Vs. Battles Wiki for a long time.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

implications

You've yet to present ANY example that's as vague as Sans, one example that could mean half a million things.

None of what you've presented is even a definitive implication in the first place, much less a specific implication at that.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

The entire point of subtle story-telling is that you are supposed to take individual pieces of something and put it together,

This is not the point of an powerscaling indexing wiki, you are NOT going to justify using personal interpretation of things that are purposedly vague based on NOTHING but your interpretation of the vague evidence. You are simply not, this is no different than a theory no matter how much you deny it.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Good information analysis feat, was it the disclaimer that said “(deltarune)” which tipped you off?

I barely batted an eye on the thing, just recognized some quotes which are now being used while scrolling. It's also really childish to mock someone over this. Grow up.

No need to inform you of this, but no Deltarune quotes are going to be used in any way, shape or capacity. Admitting to knowing that would only mean Rinne derailed the thread with off-topic quotes from a completely different universe.

 

[RinneItachi]

You've yet to present ANY example that's as vague as Sans, one example that could mean half a million things.

None of what you've presented is even a definitive implication in the first place, much less a specific implication at that.

I mean several people have provided and mentioned the evidence in question, if you're going to ignore it and just say that it's irrelevant without directly addressing it at all, I have no reason to take this comment seriously.

Saying it's not doesn't mean it isn't.

This is not the point of an powerscaling indexing wiki, you are NOT going to justify using personal interpretation of things that are purposedly vague based on NOTHING but your interpretation of the vague evidence. You are simply not, this is no different than a theory no matter how much you deny it.

There's no need to "justify" basic common sense. Unless you think that Zeno's Guards are weaker than Yamcha because they have literally never had any feats, statements, or scaling to speak of, I cannot see how you think this form of argumentation is even remotely valid in any world. That's not "personal interpretation", it's basic human rationalization from implications CLEARLY meant to be interpreted that way by the writers. Writers don't always give clear answers, but they will use subtlety very often to portray a message, most people take that and see it the way it's supposed to be rather than acting like it doesn't exist and only upfront, face-value answers matter. Zeno's Guards work for Zeno and are treated as menacing/threatening even by God's of Destruction, so logically they are extraordinarily powerful, likely even superior to the God's of Destruction and perhaps even the Angel's, but using your logic, they are, in reality, complete human level fodder, because absolutely nothing in the series has actually directly proven their strength at all. On the other hand, it is pretty unanimously agreed upon by anyone who uses rationalization that Sans is secretly a genius of high stature, who can very much create complex machinery and deeply understands very complex aspects of science. Which is why, when the mere idea of downgrading him to "Gifted" was brought up, most people thought it sounded ridiculous, because the mere sound of it is completely contradictory to what Sans is supposed to be. That isn't personal interpretation or a subjective opinion, it is objectively what Toby intended for people to interpret.

I barely batted an eye on the thing, just recognized some quotes which are now being used while scrolling. It's also really childish to mock someone over this. Grow up.

No need to inform you of this, but no Deltarune quotes are going to be used in any way, shape or capacity. Admitting to knowing that would only mean Rinne derailed the thread with off-topic quotes from a completely different universe.

You're talking to Ziller about "mocking", yet you're coming off as highly aggressive, objectively speaking. Just because you aren't blatantly insulting someone doesn't change that people can read your tone, and you seem pretty agitated.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

There's no need to "justify" basic common sense. goes on an irrelevant tangent.

Consider your thoughts on a gathering of quotes and evidence that objectively does not point you in a particular direction as common sense is just a level of confidence I cannot believe. You need to justify with any solice what you're claiming.
"Sans is Alphys' lab partner" (example)
"Why?"
"This vague quote might allude to it"

This is common sense? Stop, this is not about defying common sense, this is literally me saying we won't index your personal video game theory on the site unless it has upmost support, simple as that.

you're coming off as highly aggressive, objectively speaking

You cannot tell tone from a message unless I actively try to be passive aggressive, I am not.

This is a debate, I am being confrontational about the topic at hand, I'm confronting points, arguments, points of view, exclaming what I want to say, I disagree with something and am immediately jumping to express that disagreement.
That's not being aggressive, and much less is this "objectively" aggressive, you're just placing personal interpretation as the truth again.
If you don't want your points to be challenged, or rather, just want them challenged with your opponent having cotton candy personality, I don't recommend debating powerscaling.

I mean several people have provided and mentioned the evidence in question, if you're going to ignore it and just say that it's irrelevant without directly addressing it at all, I have no reason to take this comment seriously.

Yet you can't even point me at the evidence? Nah.

Yes me saying it isn't should mean it isn't, I'm just expressing what's happening right in front of my face.
None of the quotes that you provided bring any solice to any conclusion either way
And if you disagree, feel free to point them out to me

 

[RinneItachi]

snip

Strawman moment. I wasn't referring to Sans and Alphys in particular. I was talking about the general idea of disregarding implications entirely. Using common sense, anyone can make logical rationalizations about subjects that don't have concrete evidence to "prove" them. It is common sense to understand that Jiren can resist Hakai, even if it hasn't been directly shown. Or in this case, that Sans is an extremely intelligent scientist. I've already laid it all out previously in the thread, you're choosing to ignore it. Furthermore, massive exaggeration acting like the only thing suggesting that Sans worked with Alphys is "a vague quote". More like a series of pretty blatant suggestions from multiple different characters including Sans himself, and even the narrator. Like, either Alphys or Gaster, possibly both and MOST LIKELY Alphys, worked with Sans, no matter what you say. Do I need to bring up why again even though I have before? And that's not my main argument to begin with, I'm just talking about it because of your Strawman.

"You cannot tell tone from a message unless I actively try to be passive aggressive, I am not."

You actually can tell tone from a message by the specific words used, but I digress on that irrelevant subject, I was bringing that up because you were framing Ziller as being immature and unreasonable when he's been one of the chillest people in the thread ngl.

"This is a debate, I am being confrontational about the topic at hand, I'm confronting points, arguments, points of view, exclaming what I want to say, I disagree with something and am immediately jumping to express that disagreement.
That's not being aggressive, and much less is this "objectively" aggressive, you're just placing personal interpretation as the truth again.
If you don't want your points to be challenged, or rather, just want them challenged with your opponent having cotton candy personality, I don't recommend debating powerscaling."

Having an attitude isn't necessary in a debate, nor will it ever be and it comes off as very irrational to most people. Being assertive about your arguments isn't the same thing as expressing an outwardly negative demeanor.
It IS being rather aggressive. A civilized discussion should be calm at all times. Most staff tend to be very civilized and calm in discussions which is probably apart of why they are so well-respected. A debate is about the expression of opinions and the use of evidence to support an argument, not about being correct or incorrect. When someone seems to take it this seriously, it comes off as a "I must be right or else it is an insult" mindset. Me and Phoenks disagree on this topic but I do not think any lesser of him for it, and I respect his opinion on the matter. Even if someone just wants to say their opinion and doesn't wish to have a debate anyways, I'd take that over someone being aggressively adamant about their opinion being correct.
Once again Strawmanning and exaggerating. My guy, I literally said to ShionAH that the change shouldn't be applied yet just due to Ant's opinion being given, specifically because there are still people that disagree with it,and their opinions on the matter should be heard, otherwise it would be extremely unfair, yet you're claiming that I don't want people to say their beliefs and refute mine? I want everyone to just say their opinion, and I don't think it is remotely necessary for people to share an opinion aggressively, in any circumstance. Being so assertive, or confrontational as you put it, doesn't make someone sound more correct, it just makes it sound like they want to be correct. I won't think any better or worse of you for it, I'll just think it's weird and unneeded.

"Yet you can't even point me at the evidence? Nah."

How about me posting a giant wall of text that you seemed to have skimmed over and then shrugged off as irrelevant, or everyone else who has been expressing their arguments in addition to my own? You barely talked about any of that and your arguments of late have just boiled down to "No proof all speculation you're wrong".

 

[RinneItachi]

Yes me saying it isn't should mean it isn't, I'm just expressing what's happening right in front of my face.
None of the quotes that you provided bring any solice to any conclusion either way
And if you disagree, feel free to point them out to me

Anyways that whole back and forth between us was all a bunch of random hogwash and is really unnecessary to the thread so I'm just gonna focus on this.

We know that Sans worked with either Gaster or Alphys if not likely even both. In fact it is almost guaranteed that he did work with Alphys, from all the dialogue implications mentioned above that subtly hint at the unknown and deep relationship between Sans and Alphys, or the mysterious but popular connection between Sans and Gaster, to the known fact that Sans was at least formerly an official scientist with a badge, and to the fact that the blueprints for the "strange machine" had either terrible handwriting or symbols, which is a consistent and well-known characteristic about Alphys and Gaster that warrants no needed debate, however the fact that it goes from "symbols" to "or maybe it's just terrible handwriting" in a comedic format implies that, yes, it was Alphys who helped him make the machine, however obviously the fact that he has the blueprints and the machine tells us that he made it himself, or at least was crucial in its creation, which, if that wouldn't warrant a Genius rating in addition to everything else we know, I'm not sure what would.

They both or all worked in one larger group of scientists, probably organized by Asgore, and their research clearly detailed a variety of complex scientific sci-fi level subjects, with one of them relating to timelines. The fact that Sans was included in this group would mean by default that his intelligence and knowledge must be at least comparable to his fellow scientists, otherwise it would make absolutely no sense, especially when you consider that he quite literally was a new addition to the Underground at the time. As mentioned, Sans and Papyrus were not known residents of the Underground, or Snowdin for that matter, they just "appeared" one day and asserted themselves, and even afterwards, barely anyone in the entire game knows Sans, and they know nothing about him beyond him being a comedian, technically a member of the Snowdin guard's, a hot dog vendor, and a regular at Grillby's. The idea that they would hire a literal complete nobody who has never shown any particularly noteworthy feats before, and then proceed to put him in the same group as the best scientists in the entire Monster kingdom, tells a lot on its own. Not to mention that it's clearly a big secret.

Then you have all the implications about how his knowledge of space and time, or even quantum physics, clearly run deep, how he is a massive sci-fi nerd and is extremely interested in astronomy, his superhuman capabilities of analyzation and psychology, his strategical abilities in combat, his exploitation of the game mechanics, and so on.

The idea that him being a Genius is somehow invalid is beyond me.

 

[RinneItachi]

And none of that is something that could be written off as a theory. You want a theory? Here;

Sans, Alphys, Gaster, and other scientists were working on a project related to other timelines, because Sans was somehow transported from the Deltarune timeline to the Undertale timeline. Gaster fell into a machine during an experiment and shattered across time and space, and the entire project was such a colossal failure that everyone agreed to forget about it. Alphys was appointed the title of the Royal Scientist afterwards and it was agreed that Gaster would be forgotten. Later on, Sans and Alphys agree to make a machine that will go back in time to save him, but it breaks or/and fails, and they give up.

That's a theory and that's something that would in no world ever be applicable to a page on a wiki, let alone as some kind of useable rating. On the other hand, using context clues to deduce that Sans was at one point a scientist working with Gaster and/or Alphys is absolutely not a theory, because it has such a gargantuan amount of evidence to prove it that anyone who denies it is willingly choosing to ignore the evidence in question at that point. It's simply a fact.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Having an attitude isn't necessary in a debate

This is the single most pointless wall of text over me "being adamant about being correct." This is just wasting energy, seems like you're lashing out about me disapproving of your evidence and nothing else. Because truly there's nothing you could point out in my replies that could allude to "negative demeanor" or "uncivilized manners", you're arguing a strawman here.

Speaking of which.

I was talking about the general idea of disregarding implications entirely.

So a Strawman, then? I never argued that implications should be discarded entirely. Not all implications are made the same

yet you're claiming that I don't want people to say their beliefs and refute mine?

Another strawman, please recall what I said, "or rather, being challenged only by people with cotton candy personality". I'm not even being rude, toxic, or aggressive, I just very strongly believe you're wrong about one point in the debate, and you made 1/3rd of your reply complaining about that.

I'm not going to waste my time going over every nitpick about my "attitude" when you never even provides any example of that bad behavior.

 

[RinneItachi]

snip

Ok I'm not really interested in this, idk why you're taking it so personally, are you going to actually talk to me about the discussion or do you wish to revolve around this derailing topic eternally? I'm just not going to waste my time talking about this because it's literally not relevant to the point of the thread.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

idk why you're taking it so personally

derailing topic eternally?

Why are you projecting now? Seriously, you're the one who brought this up and made two gigantic posts about it because I complained that I was mocked.

Seriously, if you want this to be dropped, JUST DROP IT.

 

[RinneItachi]

Why are you projecting now? Seriously, you're the one who brought this up and made two gigantic posts about it because I complained that I was mocked.

Seriously, if you want this to be dropped, JUST DROP IT.

I made a moderately sized response to you "calling out" Ziller while being actively aggressive, which was not the core focus of either of my "gigantic posts" that individually took less than 10 minutes each. It was not my wish to continue with an entire discussion about it, however. And I've since tried to end it.

I am and made two entire unrelated messages because I was moving on, but I'm inclined to respond lol. And once again coming off as aggressive. Blud this is not that serious. We're talking about the intelligence of a fictional character, not the meaning of our existence. Anyways last I'm talking of this.

 

[RinneItachi]

True take: Every character should have "Varies" as characters can be really stupid even if they're normally supergeniuses if the writers feel like it.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

a gargantuan amount of evidence to prove it.

Most of the evidence is just amphiboly and nothing else.

This is a combination of Confirmation Bias, and Anecdotal Fallacy. Again, nowhere in this "gargantuan amount of evidence" do we get any confirmation or even undeniable connection between the two characters, and can simply be interpreted in multiple other ways.
A combination of amphiboly doesn't amount to "gargantuan amount of evidence".

being actively aggressive

I already explained why this is a blatant lie. You derail the thread, lie about how I'm behaving, and every time I do as much as address on how you or one is wrong, you just jump the gun and say I'm being aggressive again when I'm simply not.

Doesn't matter if the topic is unserious, reading someone constantly lie about your attitude, and by extension, your character, is tiresome. Again, you're projecting a lot of things

 

[RinneItachi]

snip

"Most of the evidence is just amphiboly and nothing else.

This is a combination of Confirmation Bias, and Anecdotal Fallacy. Again, nowhere in this "gargantuan amount of evidence" do we get any confirmation or even undeniable connection between the two characters, and can simply be interpreted in multiple other ways.
A combination of amphiboly doesn't amount to "gargantuan amount of evidence"."

Are you going to actually explain any of this directly are you just going to say it and claim it's true? You can throw around debate buzzwords but you still need to directly address the points mentioned for those buzzwords to matter. But I'll interpret what you're trying to say I guess.

"Confirmation Bias" I do understand why it could be claimed, but it's not really true. It would be confirmation bias if I was making a jump in conclusions from unsubstantiated evidence, but that is not the case. There is ample evidence to prove that Sans has worked with Alphys (or possibly Gaster), at LEAST on one project, and blatantly had a major role in said project, and that is a simple fact, which I've already mentioned and explained numerous times. The blueprints tell the story, and we have context clues to explain it in further detail beyond that. Do you want panels or something?

"Anecdotal Fallacy" I could understand your argument for Confirmation Bias but this makes little sense. Even Googling the definition of that term to confirm what it means as I felt like I may have forgotten, I can't in any way see how what I've provided is an Anecdotal Fallacy. Elaborate?

And claiming that there is no "undeniable connection" between Sans and these characters is right out. I'm frankly surprised you would even say that given what I've provided.

And I'm not gonna address the rest of that because it is irrelevant and and meant to further derail (not to mention ignores what I've actually been saying, but oh well).

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

"Anecdotal Fallacy" I could understand your argument for Confirmation Bias but this makes little sense. Even Googling the definition of that term to confirm what it means as I felt like I may have forgotten, I can't in any way see how what I've provided is an Anecdotal Fallacy. Elaborate?

I've lost track of the original post detailing the evidence, could you please help me so I can better address it?

 

[RinneItachi]

I've lost track of the original post detailing the evidence, could you please help me so I can better address it?

Sans Intelligence

Also y’all need to stop downplaying sans knowing how many times he’s died via facial expressions. I don’t care if it’s “super specific to one area”. This ridiculous feat of deduction paired with the fact that he had some hand in the creation of the machine should be at the very least genius...

vsbattles.com

I mean there's a lot more to address than just that, but if we're literally just talking about Sans and Alphys/Gaster in specific, I guess that's the main one, in addition to my recent replies to you.

 

[ShionAH]

I am gonna be honest, disagreeing with EG is fine but saying Sans is Gifted and is not as smart as Toriel is just a horrible downplay

 

[Phoenks]

I am gonna be honest, disagreeing with EG is fine but saying Sans is Gifted and is not as smart as Toriel is just a horrible downplay

You have nothing that proves otherwise except your own personal interpretation of vague implications.

At this point you're derailing by saying this.

"At least gifted" covers the hard feats and evidence while leaving the possibly that it could be higher.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

You have nothing that proves otherwise except your own personal interpretation of vague implications.

Alrght point out the vague part and we'll argue about it
Sans knows Alphys and has a significant history with her
Both Sans and Alphys know about the timeline, and Sans very directly implies that he worked with someone else
Sans is heavily connected to both royal scientists, and just happens to be a scientist himself
Gaster also blatantly states that he had 2 people working with him
Sans references the literal true lab, meaning he's been in there before
and then the sane person concludes: Sans and Alphys most likely worked together, and most most likely worked with Gaster as well
what about that is a problem?

 

[Phoenks]

What the reports are, the "machine" itself, who created it, what it actually does.

Etc. Pretty much everything you could even attempt to say to get this feat to genius or EG would require further assumptions.

Nobody is denying that they know each other. Lol.

 

[RinneItachi]

Alrght point out the vague part and we'll argue about it
Sans knows Alphys and has a significant history with her
Both Sans and Alphys know about the timeline, and Sans very directly implies that he worked with someone else
Sans is heavily connected to both royal scientists, and just happens to be a scientist himself
Gaster also blatantly states that he had 2 people working with him
Sans references the literal true lab, meaning he's been in there before
and then the sane person concludes: Sans and Alphys most likely worked together, and most most likely worked with Gaster as well
what about that is a problem?

And also, Alphys or Gaster (more likely Alphys) objectively worked with Sans on the strange machine. The characteristic of Wind Ding's which are symbols is related to Gaster, whereas the characteristic of having terrible chicken-scratch handwriting is associated with Alphys, whom is mentioned to have terrible handwriting numerous times and is the Royal Scientist. The blueprints interaction explicitly mentions symbols, and then comedically follows it up by saying that it might just be terrible handwriting.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Nobody is denying that they know each other. Lol.

Firstly, admit that they worked together, because I can tell you're trying to stay away from saying anything beyond that they've just met
they worked together, yes, or no?
Afterwards, we can move on.

 

[RinneItachi]

What the reports are, the "machine" itself, who created it, what it actually does.

Etc. Pretty much everything you could even attempt to say to get this feat to genius or EG would require further assumptions.

Nobody is denying that they know each other. Lol.

The reports are clearly meant to be readings ascertained about the status of the timelines. What is happening to them, how they function, etc.. What the "mystery" is, is where this data comes from. But considering Sans is clearly referring to a group of people, is from a group of scientists, and clearly worked with Alphys in the past, who also states her knowledge on timelines directly, it's presumably involving a scientific process that this group conducted in secret, likely including Alphys herself.

The machine has no confirmed correlation with the reports.

It's pretty obvious who created it. The blueprints are made by either Alphys or Gaster based on Toby's context clues, and Sans put it together seeing as he has the blueprints and the machine itself.

What it does is mostly unknown, but as I already explained, it's pretty logical to ascertain that it's some sci-fi space-time bullshit considering that the term "space-time" practically sums up the core mystery of Sans' hidden lore, with him wanting to "go back" somewhere, presumably to traverse timelines or just through time.

Conflating logical rationalizations from implications left by context clues, by an author who is literally most well-known for easter eggs, especially in text and music, with mere "assumptions" is a pretty big leap. If you don't want to say it's objective fact for any of this, that's fine, but to act like there is no reasoning to support it is right out.

What about the fact that they worked with each other?

 

[ShionAH]

I feel like people forget that for these situations we have likely/possibly ratings. Even though I think Sans should be a full on EG

 

[Phoenks]

Reason for me saying "at least" gifted.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Reason for me saying "at least" gifted.

Firstly, admit that they worked together, because I can tell you're trying to stay away from saying anything beyond that they've just met
they worked together, yes, or no?
Afterwards, we can move on.

I’m still waiting.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I’m still waiting.

"I'm still waiting for you to give my extreme arrogance the dignity of a response!"