Sans Intelligence

[ShionAH]

So Sans was downgraded to Genius but I still disagree with it.

• Accurately predicting the future through sheer mental calculations

Sans is so perceptive that he can perfectly deduce how many times Chara has died and tried again through Time Travel just by looking at their expression, and he can also guess if Chara has already killed him but has reset the timeline just to fight him again.

He is predicting what happened in a completely different timeline perfectly.

• At this level, many are capable of creating extremely advanced futuristic technology

Sans seems to have knowledge on the SAVE System, running reports showing the activity of the multitude of timelines, with these reports perhaps even showing what will happen to the timelines by the end of the Genocide Route, that being total destruction.

These Reports must have came from an machine but it doesn't even matter since they can predict the future, track time travel and scan other timelines. Which lets be honest is tiny bit better than our human technology.

Now onto why "Our" word cannot be used to debunk this, first of all when Sans says "Our" he implies he worked with someone else to get these reports. Which means Sans takes credit of the work which means he did make this technology and got these reports, with someone else or not it doesnt matter. Sans still has a credit in it other wise if he just "sat back and the other guy did the work" (Yes someone used this to downgrade) he would not say "Our" reports he would simply say "His/It/her reports"

All of this should give him likely Extraordinary

Agree: 3 Staff
Disagree: 1 Staff

 

[Phoenks]

Sans is so perceptive that he can perfectly deduce how many times Chara has died and tried again through Time Travel just by looking at their expression, and he can also guess if Chara has already killed him but has reset the timeline just to fight him again.

"Perfectly deduce"

No, he just looked at the frustrated expression on their face and reasonably assumed it was him that made them look like that.

Nothing above genius about that.

"Guess If Chara has already killed him"

Even if that's what's happening there, it's not that impressive either.

Sans seems to have knowledge on the SAVE System, running reports showing the activity of the multitude of timelines, with these reports perhaps even showing what will happen to the timelines by the end of the Genocide Route, that being total destruction.

These Reports must have came from an machine but it doesn't even matter since they can predict the future, track time travel and scan other timelines. Which lets be honest is tiny bit better than our human technology.

Now onto why "Our" word cannot be used to debunk this, first of all when Sans says "Our" he implies he worked with someone else to get these reports. Which means Sans takes credit of the work which means he did make this technology and got these reports, with someone else or not it doesnt matter. Sans still has a credit in it other wise if he just "sat back and the other guy did the work" (Yes someone used this to downgrade) he would not say "Our" reports he would simply say "His/It/her reports"

Isn't all technology in the Undertale underground stuff that was dropped by the humans?

 

[ShionAH]

"Perfectly deduce"

No, he just looked at the frustrated expression on their face and reasonably assumed it was him that made them look like that.

What the hell? You do know he knows how many times he killed us?

You cannot look at someone and go "Oh yeah I killed you about 7 times in completely different timelines"

Just go here to see how impressive this shit is

Isn't all technology in the Undertale underground stuff that was dropped by the humans?

Not all of it. For example the Core is built by monsters so they have technology on their own.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Can you link the downgrade thread, so outsiders can understand the context.

And my stance is the same like previously.

 

[ShionAH]

Can you link the downgrade thread, so outsiders can understand the context.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/sans-intelligence-downgrade.156044/

And my stance is the same like previously.

What was your stance

 

[ImmortalDread]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/sans-intelligence-downgrade.156044/

Put it in the OP, smh.

What was your stance

Same as the thread you linked.

 

[Phoenks]

What the hell? You do know he knows how many times he killed us?

You cannot look at someone and go "Oh yeah I killed you about 7 times in completely different timelines"

Just go here to see how impressive this shit is

Okay that's better, but I'm not even sure if that counts towards extraordinary genius intellect really. It's a good deduction skill, sure, but that's about it.

Not all of it. For example the Core is built by monsters so they have technology on their own.

Yeah, unfortunately due to the fact that he said "our" and that much of the tech that the monsters get comes from the humans above, I would say it's not solid enough to put him at extraordinary genius.

 

[ShionAH]

Okay that's better, but I'm not even sure if that counts towards extraordinary genius intellect really. It's a good deduction skill, sure, but that's about it.

Phoenks. He is perfectly learning what happened in other timelines. Counting them. Just by simply looking at our face.

How is that ordinary genius.

Yeah, unfortunately due to the fact that he said "our" and that much of the tech that the monsters get comes from the humans above, I would say it's not solid enough to put him at extraordinary genius.

Thats not how it works though. Humans don't have insane technology as seen in Deltarune so them somehow having timeline tracking devices is just very vague.

I also don't see how this means Humans made it and Sans took it. He wouldnt say "ours" he would say "theirs".

Sans takes credit which means he must have either built it, or helped someone build it. No other way

 

[Phoenks]

Phoenks. He is perfectly learning what happened in other timelines. Counting them. Just by simply looking at our face.

How is that ordinary genius.

The whole "other timeline" thing doesn't really matter. He can tell they've reset because they are standing near a save point. And from Sans' perspective it would just look like their expression changed out of nowhere upon the reset.

Anyway, my point is even if it's a feat above genius, it's only in a single category, and it's only a single feat. That isn't enough for extraordinary on its own.

Thats not how it works though. Humans don't have insane technology as seen in Deltarune so them somehow having timeline tracking devices is just very vague.

I also don't see how this means Humans made it and Sans took it. He wouldnt say "ours" he would say "theirs".

Sans takes credit which means he must have either built it, or helped someone build it. No other way

I definitely think it's possible that some of the machine could have been the responsibility of the humans. And on top of that Sans only says "Our" which could even mean multiple people helped out, or it is just in general ownership of the monsters.

It's simply not solid enough to say Sans is extraordinary genius.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I am sorry, but I am in the same opinion as Phoenks.

 

[ShionAH]

The whole "other timeline" thing doesn't really matter. He can tell they've reset because they are standing near a save point. And from Sans' perspective it would just look like their expression changed out of nowhere upon the reset.

He doesn't remember the past expressions. I dont understand how you think this feat is ordinary in anyway. He looks at someone and knows something that is just...not possible to know.

He looks at Frisk and somehow knows what they have done in 10 different timelines. With 10 different sanses. With no clues.

How is this ordinary may I ask.

Anyway, my point is even if it's a feat above genius, it's only in a single category, and it's only a single feat. That isn't enough for extraordinary on its own.

If someone has 1 extraordinary feat they become extraordinary genius.

I definitely think it's possible that some of the machine could have been the responsibility of the humans.

No. Sans says "Ours" which means he has credit in it. Humans would be "Theirs"

Also this is literally on the OP as well

How is it so hard to understand?

And on top of that Sans only says "Our" which could even mean multiple people helped out, or it is just in general ownership of the monsters.

I literally responded to this on the OP Phoenks.

 

[ImmortalDread]

He doesn't remember the past expressions. I dont understand how you think this feat is ordinary in anyway. He looks at someone and knows something that is just...not possible to know.

He looks at Frisk and somehow knows what they have done in 10 different timelines. With 10 different sanses. With no clues.

Is this not hax rather intelligence?

 

[ShionAH]

Is this not hax rather intelligence?

No

 

[Phoenks]

If someone has 1 extraordinary feat they become extraordinary genius.

I believe the only times a singular feat can do that if it is in the realm of absurd level engineering or something at least a bit more broad. Like making a time machine from scratch or having calculations so advanced you can predict everything someone will do in their lifetime.

Just being really good at deduction via facial expressions isn't notable enough to bump his overall intelligence up to extraordinary imo. It's very particular.

 

[ShionAH]

I believe the only times a singular feat can do that if it is in the realm of absurd level engineering or something at least a bit more broad. Like making a time machine from scratch or having calculations so advanced you can predict everything someone will do in their lifetime.

Just being really good at deduction via facial expressions isn't notable enough to bump his overall intelligence up to extraordinary imo. It's very particular.

Why are you ignoring the reports feat? I explained to you why "humans made it" is simply wrong.

 

[Phoenks]

I literally responded to this on the OP Phoenks.

And I disagree with your reasoning. I think you're making way more assumptions there than me just saying "Our" could mean many other people including him, some other person including him, or "our" could just refer to the society of monsters.


It also does not debunk the humans being responsible for some of it. If they were to drop some junk down their and the monsters reassembled a time machine from that, they would still be responsible for some of it.


There's simply too many unknowns man. That's the main issue.

 

[ImmortalDread]

No

This looks for me a hax, not intelligence.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Dread, what

 

[Passersby]

i want to ague in your favor, but i don't have time

another thing to note the machine can check up on each timeline's state, he did say "timelines jumping up left and right stopping and starting", so yeah, extraordinary genius is a given since he at least took part in creating it

This looks for me a hax, not intelligence.

also dread that kinda prove nothing...like really, he just states "if you have some special power" and that's it

 

[ShionAH]

And I disagree with your reasoning. I think you're making way more assumptions there than me just saying "Our" could mean many other people including him, some other person including him, or "our" could just refer to the society of monsters.

Our still means Sans has credit in it. If he helped people make it he should scale to it additionally his other feats support this. Like working with Alphys.

You are gramatically incorrect. If sans didnt scale he would say “Their”

It also does not debunk the humans being responsible for some of it. If they were to drop some junk down their and the monsters reassembled a time machine from that, they would still be responsible for some of it.

Thats still an extraordinary genius feat. What even is this arguement and thats an insane assumption

There's simply too many unknowns man. That's the main issue.

So which ones should we take? Oh the ones with supporting evidence. Who has it? Sans.
This is pushing too hard, any other character would easily become Extraordinary with these feats

This looks for me a hax, not intelligence.

Never ever come to an Undertale CRT ever again. You dont even know how the text boxes work.

 

[ShionAH]

also dread that kinda prove nothing...like really, he just states "if you have some special power" and that's it

She though Frisk was talking to sans lol

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ignore me for once, since I want to watch the entire video myself.

 

[Passersby]

She though Frisk was talking to sans lol

frisk never talks lmao, dude is a mute

 

[Passersby]

Ignore me for once, since I want to watch the entire video myself.

undertale is awesome, if you've yet to watch/play it do it

you won't regret it

 

[ShionAH]

frisk never talks lmao, dude is a mute

Dread disagrees for some odd reason

 

[Phoenks]

Our still means Sans has credit in it. If he helped people make it he should scale to it additionally his other feats support this. Like working with Alphys.

Not necessarily, no.

"Our" can mean "the monster's"

Just like if you worked at a company you would refer to the company's product as "our product" and may even use words like "we" and such to refer to the collective that you are a part of. It's not a stretch at all.

There's no way to tell how many people would have worked on it. Or if the humans are involved. And with both of those factors I still disagree with extraordinary genius.

You're free to wait for other opinions.

 

[Passersby]

Dread disagrees for some odd reason

she probably doesn't know much about the game

anyone who knows undertale should also know frisk never talks, dude is so quiet it's creepy

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ignore me for once, since I want to watch the entire video myself.

 

[Passersby]

Not necessarily, no.

"Our" can mean "the monster's"

Just like if you worked at a company you would refer to the company's product as "our product" and may even use words like "we" and such to refer to the collective that you are a part of. It's not a stretch at all.

There's no way to tell how many people would have worked on it. Or if the humans are involved. And with both of those factors I still disagree with extraordinary genius.

You're free to wait for other opinions.

my friend, not a single monster knows about the timelines determination nor the RESET, only sans has ever demonstrated any knowledge about them, if they actually did take part in creating that they should at least have some knowledge about regressors especially in the second run when certain actions seem "familiar" or "As of if they've done it before", but not a single soul exept sans has been shown to know about the timelines

you need evidence to prove your claims, because i really don't remember the game with 100% clarity either, so i may be missing some info

 

[ShionAH]

Not necessarily, no.

"Our" can mean "the monster's"

Only a few people know about Save and Load so this is simply wrong.

Just like if you worked at a company you would refer to the company's product as "our product" and may even use words like "we" and such to refer to the collective that you are a part of. It's not a stretch at all.

Its a scretch when we know only like 5 monsters know Save and Load. You are making an assumption that every single monster knows about it and is smart enough to make this

There's no way to tell how many people would have worked on it.

Not much since barely anyone knows about it.

Or if the humans are involved. And with both of those factors I still disagree with extraordinary genius.

Humans are not involved since they wont work with monsters. I also state Humans do not have this level of tech

You're free to wait for other opinions.

I will. Since it seems like you dont even know what you are talking about.

 

[Phoenks]

my friend, not a single monster knows about the timelines determination nor the RESET, only sans has ever demonstrated any knowledge about them, if they actually did take part in creating that they should at least have some knowledge about regressors especially in the second run when certain actions seem "familiar" or "As of if they've done it before", but not a single soul exept sans has been shown to know about the timelines

you need evidence to prove your claims, because i really don't remember the game with 100% clarity either, so i may be missing some info

What claim are you asking me to prove?

The claim I made is that the word "our" isn't given enough of a basis to say that Sans had a significant enough involvement to grant extraordinary genius.

This is grammatical. To say that it does give us enough of a reason to say so is what would require further evidence, which I don't believe has been given.

-

By the way, this "machine" and "reports" are also incredibly vague. Any more details on those?

 

[ShionAH]

What Phoenks is saying is contradicted by the games lore and monsters.

Human Race is “Our”: Then Sans would say “Their Reportsi”. Basic Grammar.

Monster Race is “Our”: Then Monsters would panic and know about the resets, they dont do any so thats wrong

Sans didnt do anything: He wouldnt say “Our” and add himself in it. I also want to add because of his science nature it is way safer to assume Sans did shit and didnt just watch

 

[Passersby]

What claim are you asking me to prove?

The claim I made is that the word "our" isn't given enough of a basis to say that Sans had a significant enough involvement to grant extraordinary genius.

This is grammatical. To say that it does give us enough of a reason to say so is what would require further evidence, which I don't believe has been given.

-

By the way, this "machine" and "reports" are also incredibly vague. Any more details on those?

what i asked you to prove is if the monsters nor anyone for that matter had a hand in making the machine when it was demonstrated in the game that not a single soul besides sans had any idea about the RESET save timelines or regressors, something which if they worked on a machine that can actually analyze timelines should at least have basic knowledge on

which narrows down the "our" by a lot, as he either made them with people who had no idea what they're doing and simply following his lead thus giving the majority of the credit, or he made them with a few knowledgeable people who have not appeared in the game, the former is more likely given the context and latter is on you to prove really, but either way, a "likely" or "possibly" rating works as well if the feat is still considered ambigious, outright ignoring it however, is a no go

 

[Phoenks]

What Phoenks is saying is contradicted by the games lore and monsters.

Human Race is “Our”: Then Sans would say “Their Reportsi”. Basic Grammar.

Monster Race is “Our”: Then Monsters would panic and know about the resets, they dont do any so thats wrong

Sans didnt do anything: He wouldnt say “Our” and add himself in it. I also want to add because of his science nature it is way safer to assume Sans did shit and didnt just watch

"Our" referring to property of the monsters. This doesn't inherently mean that all monsters took part in it, just that it is a belonging of the monsters.

It could also still be used even if humans played a role in giving the monsters this kind of technology, because if the monsters were to claim/repair said technology, then it would be the monster's.

Again, you are free to wait for more opinions. I have not been convinced.

 

[ShionAH]

"Our" referring to property of the monsters. This doesn't inherently mean that all monsters took part in it, just that it is a belonging of the monsters.

Which proves absolutely nothing. Congrats you played yourself.

It could also still be used even if humans played a role in giving the monsters this kind of technology, because if the monsters were to claim/repair said technology, then it would be the monster's.

No. It would be the Human Reports. If I take your phone, fix it. Is it “Our” phone? Or is it your phone?

See why you dont make any sense?

Again, you are free to wait for more opinions. I have not been convinced.

Its so weird how people come here to debate but once they are proven wrong they suddenly want to be leave. Very weird lol

 

[ShionAH]

what i asked you to prove is if the monsters nor anyone for that matter had a hand in making the machine when it was demonstrated in the game that not a single soul besides sans had any idea about the RESET save timelines or regressors, something which if they worked on a machine that can actually analyze timelines should at least have basic knowledge on

which narrows down the "our" by a lot, as he either made them with people who had no idea what they're doing and simply following his lead thus giving the majority of the credit, or he made them with a few knowledgeable people who have not appeared in the game, the former is more likely given the context and latter is on you to prove really, but either way, a "likely" or "possibly" rating works as well if the feat is still considered ambigious, outright ignoring it however, is a no go

Since sans says “Dont tell this to other sanse’s” he might be talking about his alternate versions with the “our” (Which is my personal favorite context)

 

[Phoenks]

Which proves absolutely nothing. Congrats you played yourself.

It proves that it doesn't need to be just sans and some other person, but anyone in the monsters who knows about the timelines and such could have played a part in it.

No. It would be the Human Reports. If I take your phone, fix it. Is it “Our” phone? Or is it your phone?

See why you dont make any sense?

This isn't an accurate analogy to what I'm saying.

If the humans dropped something into the underground and the monsters fixed it and claimed it, becoming the "machine" you mentioned, then the monsters would own that machine.

Monsters being a collective.

Sans is a part of this collective, thus the usage of "our" makes sense.l


Note: Collective does not mean every monster took part in the act.

 

[ShionAH]

It proves that it doesn't need to be just sans and some other person, but anyone in the monsters who knows about the timelines and such could have played a part in it.

Only 3 monsters know about the Resets and Loads. One of them is Asgore who is not a scientist

This isn't an accurate analogy to what I'm saying.

If the humans dropped something into the underground and the monsters fixed it and claimed it, becoming the "machine" you mentioned, then the monsters would own that machine.

Monsters being a collective.

Sans is a part of this collective, thus the usage of "our" makes sense.l


Note: Collective does not mean every monster took part in the act.

This is the biggest assumption ever. We are assuming humans have this level tech, we are assuming they dropped this and Sans found it first rather than Alphys, we are assuming the monsters who fix it doesnt have sans in it so he doesnt scale, then we assume sans took the reports, then we assume he used this weird grammar to say this all or do we assume Sans worked with Alphys/Gaster and found these reports because of the other contexts with the relationships of Sans with the other scientist characters.

Tell me which one makes more sense and is safer?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

It's way more likely that Sans and Alphys worked on the reports, due to this

Alphys displayed such familiarity with sans that she could anticipate his words even before he uttered them.
Doesn't Alphys’ reaction to knowing sans and sans casually brushing it off hint at a potential hidden collaboration or involvement between them?

It's also implied that sans knew about the Amalgamates and even helped care for them

(These lines were added in a patch too)

Plus we already know that Alphys is aware of Alternative Universes, so yeah

 

[ShionAH]

It's way more likely that Sans and Alphys worked on the reports, due to this

My only concern is Alphys not panicking about the reports in the Geno route. Maybe sans hid them from her?