Sans Intelligence Downgrade

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Direct and no flavor text this time! Sorry I don't have the patience

I believe Sans should be Genius instead of Extraordinary Genius. While the feats on his profile are notable, the Extraordinary Genius rating is reserved for a level of intelligence that outspace entire supercomputers, like someone who can think about every outcome and predict the future with mental calculations.

You can read the rating here:
"Individuals whose knowledge spreads over multiple fields of science and who vastly surpass the real world's upper human limits. At this level, many are capable of creating extremely advanced futuristic technology, executing complex strategies even under high pressure, outperforming supercomputers, and even accurately predicting the future through sheer mental calculations."

Sans' feats simply do not reach this level of intelligence! Let me go why one by one

• "He reads quantum physics book during his off-time"

There is not any evidence that the book is Sans'
This is deceptive, as inside the Quantum Physics book, there is another joke book
This also doesn't surpass real world's upper limits, not even Genius

This is ultimately an iffy Gifted intelligence feat. Let me already address that intelligence feats don't add up, and multiple gifted feats do not amount to a genius level of intelligence.

• "Sans loves science and that he loves 'outer-spacey science fiction stuff'"

The love of a craft does not mean proficiency at that craft. Of course, we have later feats that prove that Sans has some knowledge on his world's concepts, but this piece of evidence serves no purpose

• "Sans seems to have knowledge on the SAVE System, running reports showing the activity of the multitude of timelines, with these reports perhaps even showing what will happen to the timelines by the end of the Genocide Route, that being total destruction"

This is not done by himself, he uses the term "our report".
We also don't know what way they reports these changes, if they have a supercomputer that runs tests, or if he's working with Alphys to do so
Even if provable, the fact he didn't do it by himself makes this feat very lackluster

This is worthy of the Genius rating, not Extraordinary Genius;

• "Sans has a Workshop located in the basement of him and his brothers house, which contains blueprints of unfamiliar handwriting or symbols which relate to a 'strange machine', presumably referring to the broken machine covered up in the same room. It is unknown what the machine does or its purpose, but it shows the proficiency of Sans craftiness nonetheless"

This is ability in engeneering, but we don't know if Sans made the machine by himself
As we also don't know the purpose of the machine, this shouldn't be awarded as a Genius, or Extraordinary Genius achievement

This may change depending on future events during the UT/DR universe, but as of now, we simply lack the evidence to conclusively say Sans is an Extraordinary Genius;
Most his feats are lackluster for such a level of intelligence
He has shown deep knowledge in one subject, not multiple fields, save engeneering, which is iffy

It's not fair to put Sans on the same level as Bulma, for example

• Agree: [B]@Therefir[/B], @ImmortalDread, @Adem_Warlock69, @Angelzewolf, @BoastJr, @Spectral69420, @Antvasima
• Neutral:
• Disagree: @StrymULTRA, @ShionAH, @Roachman40, @LephyrTheRevanchist

 

[Ped2018]

You're back

 

[KingNanaya]

I'm neutral, but I do want to point out that in another thread, it was mentioned that you don't need all of those criteria, just most of them.

 

[KingNanaya]

I'm neutral, but I do want to point out that in another thread, it was mentioned that you don't need all of those criteria, just most of them.

context dependent, obviously

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I'm neutral, but I do want to point out that in another thread, it was mentioned that you don't need all of those criteria, just most of them.

I know, but none of the feats meet the criteria.

 

[Dragonite007]

How is gonna be his new intelligence section?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Yeah, always thought the stuff on the profile was like, nowhere near other Extraordinary Geniuses
Although I found in this profile

Implied to have built the dimensional boxes across the underground, due to being named "obj_sansbox" in the game's code

I wonder if it changes anything or nah

 

[Therefir]

It could be possible, but this also seems like a joke about the word "Sandbox".

Still, it's pure speculation, and the box most likely work with magic rather than being a super-advanced machine.

I agree with the OP, Genius should be fine for Sans.

 

[ImmortalDread]

"He reads quantum physics book during his off-time"​

Ya, this is nowhere a good explanation for his intelligence. Reading a book perhaps can improve your intelligence overtime, but it does not reach that level.

• "Sans loves science and that he loves 'outer-spacey science fiction stuff'"

The love of a craft does not mean proficiency at that craft. Of course, we have later feats that prove that Sans has some knowledge on his world's concepts, but this piece of evidence serves no purpose

I agree, loving science is still not a part of intelligence. I am trying to understand the relevance of this part in intelligence feat.

• "Sans seems to have knowledge on the SAVE System, running reports showing the activity of the multitude of timelines, with these reports perhaps even showing what will happen to the timelines by the end of the Genocide Route, that being total destruction"

This is not done by himself, he uses the term "our report".
We also don't know what way they reports these changes, if they have a supercomputer that runs tests, or if he's working with Alphys to do so
Even if provable, the fact he didn't do it by himself makes this feat very lackluster

Ya, I am not convinced of this either. I would like to have more context of that “reports”.

This is worthy of the Genius rating, not Extraordinary Genius;

• "Sans has a Workshop located in the basement of him and his brothers house, which contains blueprints of unfamiliar handwriting or symbols which relate to a 'strange machine', presumably referring to the broken machine covered up in the same room. It is unknown what the machine does or its purpose, but it shows the proficiency of Sans craftiness nonetheless"

This is ability in engeneering, but we don't know if Sans made the machine by himselfAs we also don't know the purpose of the machine, this shouldn't be awarded as a Genius, or Extraordinary Genius achievement

This may change depending on future events during the UT/DR universe, but as of now, we simply lack the evidence to conclusively say Sans is an Extraordinary Genius;

I agree.

Overall OP is making sense for me, so put me for agreements, altho I still want to know the context of machine and reports.

 

[ImmortalDread]

How is gonna be his new intelligence section?

It's not fair to put Sans on the same level as Bulma, for example

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Ya, I am not convinced of this either. I would like to have more context of that “reports”.

our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum.
timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting...
until suddenly, everything ends.
heh heh heh... that's your fault, isn't it?

It's not really elaborated on other than that, but it's accepted that these reports warned him about Chara's destruction of the entire game world, so yeah

 

[Angelzewolf]

Just doesn't feel right without the color and giant letters. Sad times.

Anyway, agree. Pretty straightforward.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Just doesn't feel right without the color and giant letters. Sad times.

Anyway, agree. Pretty straightforward.

Man, I miss Topaz's center moments smh.

 

[ImmortalDread]

It's not really elaborated on other than that, but it's accepted that these reports warned him about Chara's destruction of the entire game world, so yeah

And if I may ask, even if it sounds silly, but since I don't know how those reports actually looks like, but do you need a special knowledge or special requirements/level of intelligence to read such reports? Do they display some complicated intellectual language that normally requires tons of time and calculation to get to results?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

And if I may ask, even if it sounds silly, but since I don't know how those reports actually looks like, but do you need a special knowledge or special requirements/level of intelligence to read such reports? Do they display some complicated intellectual language that normally requires tons of time and calculation to get to results?

No clue lol
That quote is about the only time they're mentioned

 

[ImmortalDread]

Without additional context, I believe this insufficient material source alone is inadequate to make an assumption about the feat.

 

[BoastJr]

I agree with the downgrade since I haven't seen much opposition

 

[Spectral69420]

Agree with OP

 

[StrymULTRA]

Alright, commenting here just because people been asking me like 3 times on Discord.

I agree that his current Intelligence justifications are not enough for Extraordinary Genius alone, but I think he still qualifies because of a thing that was weirdly unmentioned in the rating (@Roachman40 you're ******* weird, ngl).

Alright so everyone and their mothers know that Sans can see how many times Chara has died and tried again against him through Time Travel just from seeing the look on their face, knowing exactly how many times they have attempted to do so, plus he can also guess if you have already killed him but you have reset the timeline just to fight him anyway (to see it just click on the Pre-Fight toogle).

But it's not the only thing.

He has made a secret codework system which he tells to Frisk to see if they're truly a time traveler like his suspect says, as it bases on the person already telling that secret code without Sans asking first, with that system having also another secret code told after the first one to make sure.

And in his judgement can also tell if Frisk has killed someone on purpose to see what he'd say just from the look on their eyes.

Based on this I think that:

• Extraordinary Genius gets from his ability to read the face expression how many times someone has time traveled in an attempt to defeat him/if they already killed him. I think that's comparable to predicting the future, only that's in reverse given he can see the actions that someone has done in timelines he has not experiences himself (so is a kinda unorthodox equivalent to it, but in reverse, dunno how to exactly say it), I don't think a Genius can do that.
• Clairvoyance should be replaced with Information Analysis.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Alright, commenting here just because people been asking me like 3 times on Discord.

Yes, that's me

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yes, that's me

@BoastJr did too.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Following the recent impressive accomplishments showcased by @StrymULTRA, I concur with the decision to retain the post.
Nevertheless, it is crucial for members to recognize that counter-arguments presented in the original post still possess merit, thus necessitating their removal.

Observing certain instances of paradoxical events already transcends the boundaries of intelligence (without using any type of hax or power). Hence, I propose commencing the discussion based on this particular argument.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Nevertheless, it is crucial for members to recognize that counter-arguments presented in the original post still possess merit, thus necessitating their removal.

They are just supportive evidence as I said.

Plus we should add the fact that he has the most complex bullet patterns in the whole game that need memorization in order to get dodged.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Reading books ain't supportive, mate. None cares if he loves science.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Reading books ain't supportive, mate. None cares if he loves science.

...I mean the study and reports.

 

[ImmortalDread]

The only thing that seems relevant in OP is the last feat, as I said, reports are not helping here.

Without additional context, I believe this insufficient material source alone is inadequate to make an assumption about the feat.

 

[ShionAH]

Guys. Sans literally was able to learn the future by using his intellligence. Tell me how can a real life human achieve this?

 

[ShionAH]

reports are not helping here.

His reports showed the Chara ending where they use the LOVE to destroy the entire game destroying countless timelines

 

[ShionAH]

His reports was able to track the SAVE and LOAD which can travel through timeline to timeline, jumping right and left, stopping and starting

 

[ImmortalDread]

His reports showed the Chara ending where they use the LOVE to destroy the entire game destroying countless timelines

How is this related to his intelligence? Did he create those reports?

 

[ShionAH]

How is this related to his intelligence? Did he create those reports?

Yes.

 

[StrymULTRA]

How is this related to his intelligence? Did he create those reports?

I mean, he has to be involved lol, given that he's involved with the scientists and he's the only one researching about RESETs.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ya but like, its all cool and fine but how those reports requires someone to be that extraordinary genius? Any chance to even see how they look like?

 

[ShionAH]

Ya but like, its all cool and fine but how those reports requires someone to be that extraordinary genius? Any chance to even see how they look like?

Dread. The reports can track literal time travel and see the future.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Literally no irl science can showcase the end of the cosmology, especially in such a meta context.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

It's implied he has been working with Alphys tho, who has more solid feats in this area

 

[ShionAH]

Sans is able to know how many times we died (things that literally happened in an entirely new timeline) by pure intelligence

• heya. you look frustrated about something. guess i'm pretty good at my job, huh?
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died twice in a row. suffice to say, you look really... unsatisfied. all right. how 'bout we make it a third?
• hmm. that expression... that's the expression of someone who's died thrice in a row. ... hey, what comes after "thrice," anyway? wanna help me find out?
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died quice in a row. quice? frice? welp, won't have to use it again anyways.
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died five times in a row.convenient, huh? that's one for each finger.but soon...you'll need a cool mutant hand to count all of your deaths.
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died six times in a row. that's the number of fingers on a mutant hand. but soon... you'll need to find a mutant hand with even more fingers.
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died seven times in a row. hey, that's good. seven's supposed to be a lucky number. who knows, maybe you'll hit the jackpot...and that number will multiply tenfold.
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died eight times in a row. that's the number of fingers on a spider. but soon...wait, don’t spiders have legs?
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died seven times in a row. nope, wait, that's definitely nine, sorry. or was it ten?
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died ten times in a row. hey, congrats! the big one-oh! let's invite all your friends over for a big shindig. we can have pie, and hot dogs, and... hmmm... wait. something's not right. you don't have any friends.
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died eleven times in a row.well, give or take.there's nuance to this stuff.don't think i'll be able to count very well from here. count for me, ok? we'll start from 12.
• let's just get to the point.
• anyway, as i was saying, it's a nice day out. why not relax and take a load off?
• ready?
• it's really great, right?
  • let's quit fighting.
• woah, you look REALLY pissed off...heheheh...did i getcha? well, if you came back anyway... i guess that means we never really WERE friends, huh? heh. don't tell that to the other sans-es, ok?

He KNOWS we killed him before

• ...that expression that you're wearing...well, i won't grace it with a description.
• ...that expression that you're wearing...you're really kind of a freak, huh?

Has reports that can track time and space abilites and understands the RESETs by pure intelligence
Note: The "Our" is talking about sanses.

• our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum. timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting...
• until suddenly, everything ends.
  • heh heh heh... that's your fault, isn't it?
• knowing that one day, without any warning...it's all going to be reset.
• cause even if we do...
  • we'll just end up right back here, without any memory of it, right?
• all i know is... seeing what comes next...
  • i can't afford not to care anymore.
• you'll keep consuming timelines over and over, until...well. hey. take it from me, kid. someday... you gotta learn when to QUIT.

Extra thing. This quote is also implied to be about the cosmology destruction

• if you take another step forward, you are REALLY not going to like what happens next.

because of this quote

• heh don't say I didn't warn ya

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Note: The "Our" is talking about sanses.

That's an interpretation I never heard of before lol

 

[ShionAH]

That's an interpretation I never heard of before lol

He talks about the other timelines and sanses so in this case its best to say that he is talking about "sanses" from every timeline. Because sans is the only one who knows about the chara ending

 

[StrymULTRA]

Sans is able to know how many times we died (things that literally happened in an entirely new timeline) by pure intelligence

• heya. you look frustrated about something. guess i'm pretty good at my job, huh?
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died twice in a row. suffice to say, you look really... unsatisfied. all right. how 'bout we make it a third?
• hmm. that expression... that's the expression of someone who's died thrice in a row. ... hey, what comes after "thrice," anyway? wanna help me find out?
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died quice in a row. quice? frice? welp, won't have to use it again anyways.
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died five times in a row.convenient, huh? that's one for each finger.but soon...you'll need a cool mutant hand to count all of your deaths.
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died six times in a row. that's the number of fingers on a mutant hand. but soon... you'll need to find a mutant hand with even more fingers.
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died seven times in a row. hey, that's good. seven's supposed to be a lucky number. who knows, maybe you'll hit the jackpot...and that number will multiply tenfold.
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died eight times in a row. that's the number of fingers on a spider. but soon...wait, don’t spiders have legs?
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died seven times in a row. nope, wait, that's definitely nine, sorry. or was it ten?
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died ten times in a row. hey, congrats! the big one-oh! let's invite all your friends over for a big shindig. we can have pie, and hot dogs, and... hmmm... wait. something's not right. you don't have any friends.
• hmm. that expression...that's the expression of someone who's died eleven times in a row.well, give or take.there's nuance to this stuff.don't think i'll be able to count very well from here. count for me, ok? we'll start from 12.
• let's just get to the point.
• anyway, as i was saying, it's a nice day out. why not relax and take a load off?
• ready?
• it's really great, right?
  • let's quit fighting.
• woah, you look REALLY pissed off...heheheh...did i getcha? well, if you came back anyway... i guess that means we never really WERE friends, huh? heh. don't tell that to the other sans-es, ok?

He KNOWS we killed him before

• ...that expression that you're wearing...well, i won't grace it with a description.
• ...that expression that you're wearing...you're really kind of a freak, huh?

Alright so everyone and their mothers know that Sans can see how many times Chara has died and tried again against him through Time Travel just from seeing the look on their face, knowing exactly how many times they have attempted to do so, plus he can also guess if you have already killed him but you have reset the timeline just to fight him anyway (to see it just click on the Pre-Fight toogle).

Man skipped my og post frfr.

Note: The "Our" is talking about sanses.

Issue here it's not that he's pulling a Rick Sanchez where every Rick from the multiverse go in the Council of Ricks, those Sans-es never worked together.