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In the original thread, the edits that were applied were the ones that completely nuked Arceus having all powers from plates instead of Cal's reasoning. That's why Sniper responded with this CRT, even though Cal's reasoning should've already been applied.That's the even weirder part; the original thread (and Sniper's side) won, just not for Sniper's reasoning. Cal's logic won over a lot of people. It appears that Sniper does not agree with this and made another thread that specifically involves his own logic and points, except those were already denied in the past.
It is turning into a confusing mess, and making a new thread while debating in bad faith and ignoring warnings only makes it even more confusing. I don't even know where to start, as I was busy with exams while a lot of these things were happening and I have no idea what is actually accepted anymore.In the original thread, the edits that were applied were the ones that completely nuked Arceus having all powers from plates instead of Cal's reasoning. That's why Sniper responded with this CRT, even though Cal's reasoning should've already been applied.
It's just turned into a confusing mess.
This is reasonable. If we should wait for anything, it should be on deciding if we should increase the length of the punishment due to his behavior.Is it okay if I can state my own opinion onto this case?
I don't really see why Sniper should be off the hook for this one, considering he has shared his own account to other people just so he can avoid being punished one time when he got reported again before. So technically it should be slightly more longer than that.
Speaking as an outsider, but if this proves to be true then it should probably stand to be longer than 2 weeks. Its messing with end users ability to judge or review RVR reports as well as in general being a massive time sink to resolve otherwise.You see, this is the problem. We had a lot of people agreeing on the ban previously, but because Sniper nuked his own account and went rogue, all the arguments and data have been buried. This is why we need to be harsh on this behavior, intentional or not, as it gums up the bureaucratic system.
No no, messages weren't deleted (probably), I mean that he literally nuked his own account and gave his password to someone else. This resulted in him, essentially, derailing the entire report and getting himself banned indeterminately for the safety of his own account, only to come back later when he felt like it. This causes a lot of issues for us, because our report system was bypassed and now a lot of the people involved and data had are no longer immediately present, causing widespread confusion on the exact details.Speaking as an outsider, but if this proves to be true then it should probably stand to be longer than 2 weeks. Its messing with end users ability to judge or review RVR reports as well as in general being a massive time sink to resolve otherwise.
This is all resting on there being proof that messages being deleted/edited, and even then it'd still be just my own aforementioned opinion.
Please explain further. I do not quite understand what you mean in the bolded text.No no, messages weren't deleted (probably), I mean that he literally nuked his own account and gave his password to someone else. This resulted in him, essentially, derailing the entire report and getting himself banned indeterminately for the safety of his own account, only to come back later when he felt like it. This causes a lot of issues for us, because our report system was bypassed and now a lot of the people involved and data had are no longer immediately present, causing widespread confusion on the exact details.
Thank you.The evaluation of the thread
So my overview on the thread (it all started after majority of the staff members has agreed with it and none disagreed). Page 4 to be precise. It all starts when @Sniper670 applied the changes and @Moritzva join the thread asking for a reason of all those rush.
Now to be fair from both sides, @Moritzva asked a fair question what is the difference from the old thread and others, and also asked why the sudden rush. Now to understand the situation better, there were no rush:
Moritza entered the chat at this moment and asked why there is rush in the thread and asked for a fair difference between old and new one.
- The thread is 4 pages, many back and forth arguments. It was civil and no report worthy comments are made. (worth to note)
- 4 staff members has conceded on the conclusion as well as 2 moreadditionalstaff members agreement.
- One knowledgeable member also agreed to this.
I assume the significance of cause is the following:
- Telling to sniper that she/he got no tolerance on the retrying threads (end of the page 3)
- Telling to sniper to stop posting text of walls and rather clarify the divergences. (tell now sniper is being civil)
- Asking again to sniper, what is the difference in the old thread and the new thread.
- Sniper called Hasty for being goon(slightly offensive but not to extreme degree)
So many forth and back arguments from Sniper and other opposing party till Ant once again asked the staff members to evaluate it.
- Sniper responded to Mori question what the answer is and told to Mori "You did the same thing when I sent you a message on your wall. Explain yourself"
- Mori told to Sniper to watch his attitude
- Prom asked a fair question and Sniper answered them
- I am ambivalent why Mori told to Sniper once again to watch his attitude (there is nothing in his comments to prove his ignorance?)
- Prom clarified Mori's intention, but Sniper responded wonderingly that he is nowhere offensive
- Sniper told Mori that she/he did not bother reading OP's content at all.
- Mori once again told to Sniper to watch his attitude(I am really confused, what to watch here if you ask me honestly)
- Sniper clarified it once again in better terms and also respectful
- Hasty12345 said the CRT harsh(I don't understand how 6 staff members and 4 pages are being harsh)
Each staff member explained their inputs regarding the OP. Mori once again explained her concerns and why OP should tell the difference between the thread prior and this new one, and Sniper responded to it by saying he actually did, but Mori dismissed it. One admin explained why Mori's concerns are partially false or fundamentally not reasonable to disagree, and Mori explained to it that she agreed and explained deeply her concerns once again.
- Mori explained her concerns to Ant
- Sniper responded to Mori's concerns
- Mori questioned Sniper comment of him admitting it is harshed
- Sniper told to Mori that her stance is not valued over 5 staff members agreements (He was slightly annoying Mori)
- Ant pinged the staff members and questioned their agreements
Page 5
Many back and forth arguments till Mori decided to report him there.
- Sniper felt accused by Mori and asked Ant if Mori can actually explain the reason of her disagreement
- Mori said her reason for her disagreement(asking for the difference)
- Sniper is being confused what he is doing wrong and also told her that her crying won't overrule others (I think it was a bit rude but not to the degree of ban worthy)
- Mori being tired and waiting for Sniper to literally explain the difference of content.
- Sniper also tired of debating with Mori
Conclusion
I feel the main issue of this occurrence is the poor communication from both sides as Mori constantly asking Sniper to tell the differences while Sniper can't properly explain them or rather annoy Mori. There are no ban worthy comments as well as there are no insults found in the thread. It is rather a poor attitude from Sniper. I also recall Sniper also apologized, which is worth to observe that he is also trying to see Mori's issue.
Not excluding the fact that Sniper told Mori that her stance is not valued over other, which is actually partially accurate. One is that Mori arrived at the thread later (after everything was done, and the staff members agreed to it) and the other perspective is that Sniper got.
Personal opinion
I think it is more of poor communication between those two users rather being disrespectful. I would say that Sniper has some sort of attitude but as seeing here, he is trying his best to understand the concerns. At some points, he can be out of stress of repeating the same points over and over again.
So I don't see a ban worthy in this case, but rather Sniper trying his best to understand Mori as well as dealing with more opposing parties at once. Seems under stress, he refused to cooperate and not debating with Mori.
@Antvasima @Moritzva this is my evaluation, and I am trying to be neutral at this moment and also accommodating.
No problems and I am trying to be helpful and also providing transparency to the public and also staff members. It took me approx half hour, so I appreciate any kindness.Thank you for helping out, Dread. Whatdo our other staff members here think should be done?
I assume because there were a lot of comments between you both. But I will add it. Thanks for the notice. But regarding the comment, I assume when he replied to it, he was surprisingly asking himself what is “attitude” in this case.Dread, it took two seconds of looking through your deep review to find that you missed Sniper responding to a warning with "LMFAO" and claimed Sniper didn't do anything at all.
You really ought to look into these things a little bit deeper if you're going to make reviews like this.
Let's be real. I did not understand her "watch your attitude", and her repetion of it only served to annoy me. So that, is a resultI assume because there were a lot of comments between you both. But I will add it. Thanks for the notice. But regarding the comment, I assume when he replied to it, he was surprisingly asking himself what is “attitude” in this case.
Again, I apologize for overlooking it, but it seriously gets me a time to summarize it as much as possible.
You're free to do so. But I'm generally a cool person so you'd probably lose interest in doing thatHonestly, if Sniper's going to insist on keeping up with this attitude and continue getting so many chances, then we need to keep an eye on him
I only did the thread evaluation. I would rather not add his past history, as I don't know how is this relevant to this case precisely. Also responding to bold part, I agree with you, I assume it is more lack of communication from Sniper side, and not from his rudeness.Furthermore, you entirely missed that Sniper was previously reported for the exact same behavior and has been like this on multiple threads, not to mention that I was incredibly transparent and direct with my communication.
I am not acting solely out of personal offense, and while I do appreciate the apologies, I don't think that my personal leniency should usurp site rules involving this sort of behavior. I'm willing to say that I hold no grudge of the sort, and I only seek to make sure our rules are followed. I won't push for anything more than two weeks, however, as I can agree that may be harsh if Sniper is genuinely apologetic (though Propellus' concerns are still quite valid, as well as past concerns about site precedent).Is the apology from Sniper670, along with his previous promise to try to treat you considerably better, sufficiently satisfactory for you, Moritzva?
Okay. Thank you for being reasonable.I am not acting solely out of personal offense, and while I do appreciate the apologies, I don't think that my personal leniency should usurp site rules involving this sort of behavior. I'm willing to say that I hold no grudge of the sort, and I only seek to make sure our rules are followed. I won't push for anything more than two weeks, however, as I can agree that may be harsh if Sniper is genuinely apologetic (though Propellus' concerns are still quite valid, as well as past concerns about site precedent).
I was trying to be adjuvant enough. But sorry for taking my time and help staff member for this issue.Dread, it is best that you do not hijack staff discussions, here or elsewhere. It seems much better if you stop commenting here and let our staff members handle this, even though we seem to need to wait a while.
Alright noted.The initial help was good and appreciated, but then you started to make what seemed to be too many posts again, even though regular members should only comment here if they have something genuinely useful to say.
I was just about to do the same.Reporting this "new" user
Speak of the devil: he made this thread too earlierI was just about to do the same.
Not sure how our rules are when it comes to this, but @LuciferX has made four downgrade threads shortly after his 1-B Alien X Upgrade got rejected (and closed). All the 4 threads were made within the span of a day, and all of them are about downgrading verses which he thinks the dimensions do not qualify for tier 1 (which was the main reason his 1-B Alien X thread got rejected). I think it's quite evident he is doing all of this out of spite or at least out of bad faith.
And he is likely not going to stop at just 4 threads...