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Pokemon God Revision- Yes its Arceus (And minor stuff for Unown)
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The only solution is to call Ant here. Otherwise, it will be dead
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Did you call Ant?
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I'm a bit late, but for how much it is worth I agree with everything. Arceus' plates are the source of the powers in the verse, and since he is omniscient it makes sense that he can use every move. Biological limitations are not exactly a problem since they are not limiting Mew from being capable of using practically every move in the games. Abilities are not different from moves, they are only a passive application of them to deepen the combat system. Arceus shouldn't have any problem reproducing them.
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So why are you bumping? Bruh
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Sounds horny
Lol-Actually the reason I haven't called ant yet is because I'm reworking the plates. It's incomplete atm
Sniper670
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Yeah. In fact the Original Setting of Arceus is that of an omnipotent and Omniscient being. When he's complete that is(With all his Plates). Which are literally his body fragments
I agree with you about abilities. Ralts doesn't need a bulb on his back to utilize Chlorophyll ability when he copies it from Bulbasaur. He gets the perks and ignore the physiology entirely.
We literally have God being restrained by game mechanics here.
And I don't want to hear about jewel of life. The Director himself admitted he was omnipotent and omniscient. Ultimately, they resorted to pis.
At worst it will have 0 effect on Mainline Game Arceus, who's the most powerful avatar of the Original Spirit.
1. Has never been outsmarted by humans.
2. Doesn't need the plates to live. Unlike the movie
3. Has a direct connection to the entire multiverse.
4. Has a direct statement in-game that he's omnipotent
5. He's testing humans. All the time.
6. Uxie has dominion over knowledge. And this guy is just an extension of Arceus.
Omnipotence = Unlimited power = The Legend plate having the power of everything/Essence of All creation
Omniscience= Uxie, having control over knowledge being an aspect of him.
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Since it's the main point here, I'll focus on the Arceus abilities stuff. Just to preface, any argument based around the plates being the source of Pokemon's power or Arceus being omnipotent are minor support at best imo. Being the source means nothing if Pokemon moves are derived from the application of the plate's powers rather than the power itself, and "omnipotence" is too unreliable and far reaching to be used as a solid basis.
"All Pokémon always have a type. The Pokémon's power to use fire and water was given to them by the plate."
This is the first solid piece of evidence that supports Arceus having access to Pokemon powers, as it specifies that the application of Pokemon moves are possible through the plates.
“A slate that holds the power of all things/all creation. When used on a Pokemon, it gains the power of all Types/every Type's powers.”
The part in bold is a small but important difference for obvious reasons. While I don't believe the majority of the examples you gave in your 'Power of all things‘ only means all moves and nothing else’ rebuttal are necessarily plate related (flame plate stuff is good, but aside from space-time manip it's just amplifying the abilities that Heatran already has), but types are intrinsically related to non-Pokemon moves (Muk's disease and sensory manipulation comes from its Poison power, Mega Alakazam's precognition and information analysis comes from its Psychic power, etc).
As you stated, Mew directly relates DNA to having powers of all types (and Ditto supports this by gaining a Pokemon's abilities by gaining the "enemy's genetic code"), and Pokemon biology is specifically related to many Pokemon's abilities (Cryogonal's regeneration, Espeon's precognition). One could even relate Aura, an energy present in all living things to Arceus as it had existed since the birth of the universe. Different Pokemon emit a specific aura - Xerneas and Yveltal are obvious examples but Sylveon has it's own soothing aura, Iris communicates with Dragon types through their auras and Ash's Greninja had a sensitivity to negative energy. I believe aura is related to types and Pokemon in the exact same way that Arceus' plate energy is.
Neutral on Dark Matter and Bittercold, but leaning on disagree. Humans should be fine, some trainers are stated to have a specific "affinity" for certain types, and can possess powers seen of their type as shown in the OP, as well as communicating through Aura. Also, according to the Canalave myth, "People and Pokémon, too, were but the same presence." and "Because they shared the same spirit, people and Pokémon intermingled. People took the place of Pokémon, and the opposite also held true". If you accept all Pokemon powers coming from plates, then it follows that all human powers come from plates as well.
"All Pokémon always have a type. The Pokémon's power to use fire and water was given to them by the plate."
This is the first solid piece of evidence that supports Arceus having access to Pokemon powers, as it specifies that the application of Pokemon moves are possible through the plates.
“A slate that holds the power of all things/all creation. When used on a Pokemon, it gains the power of all Types/every Type's powers.”
The part in bold is a small but important difference for obvious reasons. While I don't believe the majority of the examples you gave in your 'Power of all things‘ only means all moves and nothing else’ rebuttal are necessarily plate related (flame plate stuff is good, but aside from space-time manip it's just amplifying the abilities that Heatran already has), but types are intrinsically related to non-Pokemon moves (Muk's disease and sensory manipulation comes from its Poison power, Mega Alakazam's precognition and information analysis comes from its Psychic power, etc).
As you stated, Mew directly relates DNA to having powers of all types (and Ditto supports this by gaining a Pokemon's abilities by gaining the "enemy's genetic code"), and Pokemon biology is specifically related to many Pokemon's abilities (Cryogonal's regeneration, Espeon's precognition). One could even relate Aura, an energy present in all living things to Arceus as it had existed since the birth of the universe. Different Pokemon emit a specific aura - Xerneas and Yveltal are obvious examples but Sylveon has it's own soothing aura, Iris communicates with Dragon types through their auras and Ash's Greninja had a sensitivity to negative energy. I believe aura is related to types and Pokemon in the exact same way that Arceus' plate energy is.
Neutral on Dark Matter and Bittercold, but leaning on disagree. Humans should be fine, some trainers are stated to have a specific "affinity" for certain types, and can possess powers seen of their type as shown in the OP, as well as communicating through Aura. Also, according to the Canalave myth, "People and Pokémon, too, were but the same presence." and "Because they shared the same spirit, people and Pokémon intermingled. People took the place of Pokémon, and the opposite also held true". If you accept all Pokemon powers coming from plates, then it follows that all human powers come from plates as well.
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better call saul
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Bump
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Hard disagree with Arceus getting the powers and abilities of pokemon through the plates.
Arceus already has access to all pokemon moves. That is the extent of which the statements about the plates can cover.
It was already decided in previous thread that more information and proof is needed to claim that Arceus gets the powers of pokemon that doesn't come from their moves.
Especially when you look here:
Top creators in the pokemon franchise describe Arceus as being an Alpha pokemon and then talk about him changing his type. There's no other direct mention of Arceus being able to do everything in the verse.
Do you have any other evidence besides the plates?
Arceus already has access to all pokemon moves. That is the extent of which the statements about the plates can cover.
It was already decided in previous thread that more information and proof is needed to claim that Arceus gets the powers of pokemon that doesn't come from their moves.
Especially when you look here:
Top creators in the pokemon franchise describe Arceus as being an Alpha pokemon and then talk about him changing his type. There's no other direct mention of Arceus being able to do everything in the verse.
Do you have any other evidence besides the plates?
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Also this argument, that Arceus should be able to do everything other pokemon can do because they all use the same essence doesn't make sense. By this logic, Emboar should be able to use skyuppercut because Blaziken a fire-fighting type can. They both have access to the same essence/energy right?
Sniper670
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God has the power of everything, not other Pokemon.
"The powers of plates are shared amongst Pokemon". Which i linked the japanese version to show that the typings that allows Pokemon to use their powers are built into their genes
If i'm giving 20 different people 20 different powers from myself, why should Guy A be able to do what Guy B can. It's a one way mirror
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What's your point? You were literally using this as evidence in another thread.
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Where is it stated that Arceus directly gave Pokemon their powers. Because it says that the power of the plates are shared amongst Pokemon. Not, Arceus gives pokemon the power of the plates?
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The point is that even the writers who are writing Arceus stories say that he can change types, and have never said that he can do everything everyone in the franchise.
Sniper670
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Why does this matter? The entire point here is whoever can use the plates can use all other Pokemon powers. Arceus so happens to be the rightful bearer
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Sniper670
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1. The secondary canon doesn't contradict the games. In the game, Arceus uses the plates to change types. In the secondary canon, Arceus uses the plates to change types and the Authors talk about it. What's not shown in games or the manga, is Arceus giving all pokemon all thier powers. You have no direct evidence for that.
2. Arceus has already got access to all the moves on the profile. This is about you trying to give him the non-move powers and abilities of pokemon that he has not shown to have or can do, with or without the plates.
Because extra-ordinary claims need extra-ordinary evidence. You have no proof of Arceus bestowing powers to all pokemon other than the line, "The power of the plates is shared amongst pokemon"
That line is not synonymous with:
Arceus gives Pokémon their powers.
Pokemon get all their powers from the plates.
But that line is synonymous with the fact that pokemon get a boost in power when they hold the plate as shown in the game, and when heatran got the plate in the anime.
Sniper670
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Why? Because they're powers. Also:
‘ Power of all things’ only means possessing the type and thats it' ie. Game mechanics depiction of Multitype, which is to change his type and the type of his “Judgement” move. If we go with game mechanics then you're right, untrue outside of it. Arceus has shown spamming various moves after accessing the various plates. Something that was also shown in the anime, nothing that happened here is something Arceus can canonically do in gameplay with his ability. Neither is this, yes canonically he cannot use light to bless Pokemon, with more power. God being restrained by game mechanics doesn’t make him limited outside of it, going by lore, showings, cutscenes and interviews surrounding him. There is a page made specifically for game mechanics.
I brought the Japanese version to dispute this. From natives Typings originates from the plates. With this line of thinking it is easy to understand what the english version says, the powers of plates are shared amongts all Pokemon.
Plus, only the rightful bearer can draw power from it, and thats Arceus. Simply because they're fragments of himself
Plus each plate having the very essence of all types just throws your entire argument out the window. And to quote from your own page:
Heatran? The plate took control over him, not even once was heatran able to harness its powers. The plate was literally returning to Arceus, for logical reasons as he's the rightful bearer. If all Pokemon can use the powers inside it
1. They wouldn't need to call upon Arceus to harness the plates himself in the manga
2. Volo wouldv'e given the plates to Giratina to fight Arceus in the games. One plate literally has the power Arceus used to create the world.
3. The Flame plate wouldn't be trying to go back to Arceus and reject Heatran, taking control over him
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I thought the game were the primary canon?
SO where in the anime is stated that Arceus has the abilities and powers of all pokemon? It's not game mechanics. Arceus has never used the ice plate to regenerate the same way that Crygonal has and it was never stated that he can use the ice plate to do that.
Read what you posted. It says, "the rightful bearer of a plate draws from the plate it holds". Not Only the rightful bearer can draw power from it.
Again, I go back to my question: Since Blaziken and Emboar both have the stame type, and therefore both have the essence of fire and fighting, Emboar should be able to do everything that Blaziken can?
In the primary canon, the game, when pokemon hold the plate they get a power boost. In the anime, when heatran held the plate, he got a power boost. What's the problem? They both sharing in the power of the plate.
Hasty12345
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this is getting ridiculous, Arceus clearly can't use every Pokemon ability. It's been debunked for the 3rd thread now.
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Sniper670
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He can.
1. Plates give Pokemon their powers. It shares, so its the kind of power bestowal where the bestower is qualified to get the powers
2. Whoever can use the plates can use the power of everything
3. Arceus is the user
4. He's Omnipotent. He's God. Omnipotence meaning unlimited power, power to do everything. Legend plate verbatim say it possess the power of everything
Hasty12345
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you're like a broken record at this point.
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If you have nothing to contribute, stop.
Hasty12345
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And how is repeating the same debunked argument contributing?
Sniper670
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Yes. The other materials support it .
It is game mechanics, unless you can show me a Pokemon picking the plates and being able to use psychic powers, water powers, creating new realities or the likes outside of the rightful bearer. .
About Cryogonal. That's recover, Self-Regeneration from the Japanese version, a normal type move that Arceus has the essence of. And allows the users to regenerate. This is what Cryogonal uses , it's part of his movesets
The user regenerates its cells to restore its own HP. |
The rightful bearer was mentioned to be the shaper of the world, Arceus. As i mentioned earlier, show me a Pokemon picking a plate and warping reality the way Arceus does.
They don't have the essence of fire. God has the properties that makes fire, fire as a fragment of himself. Its a one way street. God fragments has the statements of having every types powers, not other Pokemon
The japanese version begs to differ. Pokemon Types = Plates. For logical reasons, thats the very essence of their powers
1. The rightful bearer= Arceus
2. The plates are fragments of God
3. Pokemon Types originates from plates
4. No other Pokemon has been able to remotely use any powers from it to do anything
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You don't agree with them, that's your opinion. Your vote will be counted and that's it. For me (and many others), his points have merit and should be considered.
Also, stop this debunk bs. He has brought greater clarification and context to his statements, that weren't there in past threads.
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