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Revising Tiamat (and possibly others?) part 2

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Escanor998 said:
He displays more of its true nature in Fate/hollow ataraxia, Fate/Zero, and Fate/strange fake. Showing its power as an "Anti-World" weapon, it attacks everything in sight with a single strike. It cannot be said that what the blade cuts down is limited simply to "the enemy" as it is not a matter of aiming it, and it is impossible to even discuss as to whether it will hit its target or the practicality of the force behind it. Grinding at the laws of space with its power, it creates a rip in space that extends from not only the earth, but also to the sky and atmosphere. It is a crack that distorts space to pierce the very nature of the World itself to show the "Truth". All that uses the cut space as a foundation is swallowed and crushed by the void, and the dazzling light only continues to grow as it continues to complete the destruction. Its use in a fight is not something that can be called a battle, but rather the wrath of nature itself
Performing the miracle of genesis, something that reveals creation - the beginning of everything, the attack opens an abyss capable of crushing all of creation, and the center of the storm is not calm, but rather a hole to hell itself that returns all that enters its realm to the nothingness from which it originated. The wind pressure creates a vacuum that takes all things with form, the land, the atmosphere, and the sky, into the whirling void. The tumult of genesis takes everything that was nothing more than chaos which could not form any meaning, and creates a new truth that divides and distinguishes Heaven, Sea, and Earth. Within the darkness where everything is returned to nothingness, only Ea is left to shine with brilliance like a Star of Creation amidst the destruction, the first thing illuminating the new world

Gilgamesh claims that the sword "knows the truth" of the World where it once existed, and by using its power, it is able to bestow its knowledge upon others. As it is "The Sword That Cut the World Apart", he calls it "something that knows the hellish planet before genesis", the planet's primordial form before heaven and earth were split, where it was a land filled with naught but lava and gas and a hell of scorching heat and intense cold. Referring to it as hell, Gilgamesh states that it is the source of all legends of the land of the dead. The memory of the time before the existence of the planet, a place and time when organic existence had been impossible, is something possessed by all organisms, but it is no longer found in the imaginations or spoken memories of people. It is the first memory of life that is a genetically inherent and repressed knowledge which can only be shown to those looking upon the sword
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@ Mat So what's your counter point to this? Because this explains it as cutting a hole in Reality which causes the rest to be destroyed rather then a physical Planet being destroyed in a single attack.
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
See? Gang up against Mashu, that's why.
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Him being the only vocal person to argu againts the Downgrade isn't him being ganged up on. We are paitently waiting for him to properly explain his points while continuely debunking them. That's not being rude
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
See? Gang up against Mashu, that's why.
Click to expand...

Nobody is really ganging up on Matt. Just because several users disagree with one single user doesn't mean it's them ganging up on him. Let's not blow this out of proportion, as for the topic at hand I'll remain neutral since I see good arguments coming from both sides although I'm leaning towards the downgrade. But as Sera EX said, we should all remain civil and try to act respectful to each other, rather than overreacting and throwing shade.
 
Sorry, that comment is just a prank lel.

Anyway from now on i'm gonna stay neutral about this, i don't care if this got 6-B/High 6-B or 5-B or BB++, i will watch it from the dark, observing this.....
 
Hmmm, this is just my idea, but should we contact Prom? I know she busy with Umineko thing but at least she need to look, that's all.
 
So from what I can understand the biggest opposition to 5-B Ea is that the translation for planet in Strange Fake originally in moon runes meant world, which in Nasuverse does not exactly means planet but also could mean the layers of reality but also has a chance of just meaning planet. Which mean the we will have to rely on context to sort this mess out. Heres my take on it.

"It hailed from an era more ancient than humans, older than even the planet itself. it was a rariet among rarities, a pure manifestation of the power wielded by gods to enact genesis."

So in this quote at first glance it obviously refers to the planet as in a celestial body and Ea is older than that. Let assume however though that it mean World and then further assume that world in this context mean Texture of the planet or layer. With that this would say that Ea is older than the texture of the planet? Which beside sounding really stupid. Mean what exactly? So the planet was originally a chunk of molten magma and rock then the Gods chose to use Ea to reality warp the Layers into existence?

You guys can context your way through the other quotes. This was just how I saw it.

Though another thing to consider is that since CCC Gilgamesh is just living Gil doesn't that mean that at one point or another Ea had 5-A capabilities. If so I don't see how that very same weapon being 5-B after getting a bit weaker sound outlandish.
 
I believe you misunderstood. The whole planet =/= World argument only matters in regards to what Ea destroys. In that quote you mentioned, it talks about how Ea is older than the planet, not what Ea destroys, that being the World/textures.

CCC Gil cannot be used to scale since Kiara's 5-A tier is called into question as well.
 
Ah I see. Sorry if I sounded rude by the way. Though I still kind of don't see the difference. people are saying that Planet in the japanes text mean World which in turn mean something else entirely. So this is obviously a translation thing. Also assuming that the translation for the quote above does not change that mean that Ea is older than the Planet (Celestial Body) and created it. So that would equate to planet level?

On another note I feel like we should get the Kiara thing out the way first since quiet literally everything seems to be scaled off that one way or another. Tiamat, Ea, Golden Fox Goddess, Saver, Origin Sevant, Aliens. I feel like this thread won't truly go anywhere until the Kiara stuff finally sorted.
 
It happened like this:

Ea (the sword) was crystallised during the genesis of the planet as a Physical Manifestation of the Authority of the original Ea before Gaia was born (Gaia started to exist after the planet was stabilized or something like that), it didn't exist before (As it is "The Sword That Cut the World Apart", he calls it "something that knows the hellish planet before genesis", the planet's primordial form before heaven and earth were split, where it was a land filled with naught but lava and gas and a hell of scorching heat and intense cold. Referring to it as hell, Gilgamesh states that it is the source of all legends of the land of the dead. The memory of the time before the existence of the planet, a place and time when organic existence had been impossible).

Also, it was stated that the one who created the earth is the Forgotten Original Mother Goddess of ├çatalhöyūk
 
Earth Mother Goddess (ÕñºÕ£░µ»ìþÑ×?) - The power of creation of the mother goddesses originated with Catalhoyuk's forgotten goddess 8000 years ago who was the mother of the earth goddesses who created the earth

It branched to many others goddesses over time, including Tiamat, Cybele, Ishtar, Inanna, Anat, Astarte, Gaia, Hera, Artemis, Aphrodite, Demeter, and Athena. The earth mother is a protector guardian deity revered by the people, and she is the sacrifice that feeds them with the crops born from her body and the beasts of the fields and the forests. Her true nature is the cycle of life and death, the circle of the food chain where she feeds man with her blood and flesh, kills man over time and absorbs him as nutrition, and once again feeds man with her replenished blood and flesh. She represents the system of life itself, so those born of the earth cannot deny her authority. Only when they have fulfilled the wish of the ├çatalhöyūk, leaving the planet for space and ending the infantile stage of intelligent lifeforms, will they no longer be bound to it.

This authority over the power of bringing death and giving life, symbolized by holes opening in the earth and the sky, caves and the moon, the whirlpools and typhoons of the sea, the craters of volcanoes, and such, first births evils that bring forth all manners of death. Once the evils are finished spreading death, they leave the promise of good harvest and fertility. The goddesses that followed inherited this authority, and many were imaged with mural crowns because many were also the guardian deities of cities. Most used the authority to give birth to countless monsters and giants and posed a threat to the gods and man, or give birth to heroes and became protectors of man. Tiamat and Gaia are examples of those who became threats, and Hera is an example of a mother of heroes.[8] BB used Earth Mother data and Kingprotea came to existence as a High-Servant


She is the one that gives Kingprotea her powers, not Tiamat, as she is only a small branch of her

Also, before you say " as ishtar and Tiamat inherited part of the authority, they should be 5-B", no, most of the power was taken by Gaia and tiamat inherited the part of "Giving and destroying life" that is manifested as her Sea Of Life

Also it should be noted that the Original Earth Mother Goddess draws her power from the root
 
Where does it state that Earth Mother Goddess draws her power from the Root? Only bits about the Earth Mother Goddess that has something to do with root that i recall was this

ÕñºÕ£░ÒéÆÕëÁÚÇáÒüùÒüƒÕ£░µ»ìþÑ×ÒüƒÒüíÒü«µ»ìÒü½ÒüéÒüƒÒéïÕÑ│þÑ×Òü¿Òü»ÒÇüÕì│ÒüíÒÇüõ©çþë®ÒéÆþöƒÒü┐Õç║ÒüùÒüƒÒÇîµá╣µ║ÉÒÇìÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé

Which practically just says something along the line of "the Goddess who gave birth to the Earth Mother goddesses who created the Earth is, in other words, the "root" of all creations."

It doesn't necessarily reference the root as in the ÒÇî ÒÇì
 
Besides Gilgamesh, and Enkindu. Is there any other way to scale Tiamat? i know of only 1 maybe 2 so far. Though the 2nd option im not too sure on.
 
I was thinking of Goetia as well. How does kiara scale?? Tiamat actually has a statement of being compared to Goetias-solomon's Noble Phantasm that was used to gather energy to create a new planet.

As for the gilgamesh .... I think he needs a thread of his own at this point... I could continue going on about him, but i rather take time to discuss other options....
 
Quetz's Piedra del Sol that would have instantly vaporized uruk had it been activated (Unlike Dendera, this statement DOES say vaporization).

This is scalable to Tiamat because it slightly damaged her (noting really notable, she regenerated very fast), and also tanked Xiuhcoatl that quetz described as being as "strong as the meteor that killed the dinosaurs", but because of the lack of other evidence, it's a "possibly" at best
 
Goetia needed prep time though for creation of his new planet, and it he absorped the life forces of many beings to become capable of creating his new planet????? He was minutes away from creating it he just needed to do the ritual activation sequence.

Tiamat before she even escaped from the Void hole. Her black mud was comparaed to that in its completed form. when i say compared. Only a power of that magintude would have been able to eradicate it. Then when she finally appeared she underwetn 3 or 4 transformations each one stronger than the other????
 
Is beast Kiara CCC Kiara??? Or is that Grand Order Kiara?? I have only read translations on servant route CCC which doens't have kiara. only the true end does
 
Beast Kiara has no feats outside of ******* with all the souls of mankind, and when they compared the power of Ars, they refered to the power to create a new world (Solomon by fusing himself with the planet after traveling back in time, and Tiamat by drowning the surface of earth with her Chaos Tide)


Also, Goetia would be affected by this thread as well, because he's somewhat weaker than Tiamat
 
Goetia was going to go back into time before the planet was created and make an entirely new planet. he wasn't going to fuse with the planet. He was going to create a new one, and become that planet himself from what i understood.
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
Goetia needed prep time though for creation of his new planet, and it he absorped the life forces of many beings to become capable of creating his new planet????? He was minutes away from creating it he just needed to do the ritual activation sequence.
Tiamat before she even escaped from the Void hole. Her black mud was comparaed to that in its completed form. when i say compared. Only a power of that magintude would have been able to eradicate it. Then when she finally appeared she underwetn 3 or 4 transformations each one stronger than the other????
Click to expand...
Actually, you need to account that the Chaos Tide is all the Indian Ocean, and is an authority, so it doesn't traslate into AP (authorities does things just because the user has the right to do a thing, ignoring physical laws if needed)
 
Goetia need prep time to Go back in time. Time travel is the major issue in Goetia plan. Also AAS once gathered is "a torrent of heat sufficient to penetrate through the planet." And Tiamat was compared to it.

Also Beast Kiara is Grand Order
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
Goetia was going to go back into time before the planet was created and make an entirely new planet. he wasn't going to fuse with the planet. He was going to create a new one, and become that planet himself from what i understood.
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He was going to remade the process of the creation of the planet by transforming himself as the foundation of the world, to create a "Perfect Humanity"
 
But the planet has many layers separated by Dimensional boundaries ƒñö


But, the Chaos tide was compared to an attack capable of generating enough energy to create a planet. That power was needed to destroy it.
 
Escanor998 said:
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
Goetia was going to go back into time before the planet was created and make an entirely new planet. he wasn't going to fuse with the planet. He was going to create a new one, and become that planet himself from what i understood.
Click to expand...
He was going to remade the process of the creation of the planet by transforming himself as the foundation of the world, to create a "Perfect Humanity"
Click to expand...
He stated himself. He was going to create a whole new planet. I can bring the scans if needed.
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
But the planet has many layers separated by Dimensional boundaries ƒñö


But, the Chaos tide was compared to an attack capable of generating enough energy to create a planet. That power was needed to destroy it.
Click to expand...
Gaia didn't existed while the planet was being created, it was born after the planet stabilized itself
 
THOK AST THOK said:
Where does it state that Earth Mother Goddess draws her power from the Root? Only bits about the Earth Mother Goddess that has something to do with root that i recall was this
ÕñºÕ£░ÒéÆÕëÁÚÇáÒüùÒüƒÕ£░µ»ìþÑ×ÒüƒÒüíÒü«µ»ìÒü½ÒüéÒüƒÒéïÕÑ│þÑ×Òü¿Òü»ÒÇüÕì│ÒüíÒÇüõ©çþë®ÒéÆþöƒÒü┐Õç║ÒüùÒüƒÒÇîµá╣µ║ÉÒÇìÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé

Which practically just says something along the line of "the Goddess who gave birth to the Earth Mother goddesses who created the Earth is, in other words, the "root" of all creations."

It doesn't necessarily reference the root as in the ÒÇî ÒÇì
Click to expand...
sorry, i used the wrong text, it says this actually


Potnia Theron [EX]
Potnia Theron (Conception of All Animals).
The authority of the goddesses whom BB compiled and absorbed from the abyss of the mooncell.
What it is is the embodiment of the power of creation possessed by the mother goddesses, originating from a forgotten goddess approximately 8000 years ago (the goddess of ├çatalhöyūk), and branching to Tiamat and Cybele, Ishtar, Inanna, Athena, Astarte, Gaia, Hera, Artemis, Aphrodite, Demeter, Athena, etc.
Many are imaged with mural crowns. This is because many of the goddesses were also the guardian deities of cities.
ÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÔùå
The symbols of this authority are the holes opening in the earth and the sky (caves and the moon), the whirlpools and typhoons of the sea, the craters of volcanos, and so on, and from these, evils bringing forth all manners of death are birthed.
But once these evils have finished spreading death, they leave the promise of good harvest and fertility. This authority is none other than the power of bringing death as well as giving life.
The earth mother is a guardian deity revered by the people and their protector, and at the same time she is the sacrifice that feeds them with the crops born from her body and the beasts of the fields and the forests.
The earth mother feeds man with her blood and flesh, kills man over time and absorbs him as nutrition, and once again feeds man with her replenished blood and flesh.
This process is the circle of the food chain, and the cycle of life and death can be said to be the true nature of the earth mother. With this authority, most of the goddesses gave birth to countless monsters and giants and posed a threat to the gods and man, or they gave birth to heroes and became protectors of man.
Tiamat and Gaia are examples of those who became threats, and Hera is an example of a mother of heroes.
ÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÒÇÇÔùå
Those born on this earth cannot defy the authority of the earth mother, as that would mean rebelling against the system of life itself.
However, it is when they have left this earth to go into outer space and ended the infantile stage of intelligent lifeforms that they should no longer be bound to this authority..
The wish of ├çatalhöyūk is the coming of that day.
[[[]]]Setting
 
Escanor998 said:
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
But the planet has many layers separated by Dimensional boundaries ƒñö

But, the Chaos tide was compared to an attack capable of generating enough energy to create a planet. That power was needed to destroy it.
Click to expand...
Gaia didn't existed while the planet was being created, it was born after the planet stabilized itself
Click to expand...
Ah I see what your saying there. I see the point in that. He goes back in time before Gaia existed. I still stand by my point that he is creating a whole new planet instead of fusing with pre mature earth.
 
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